Krampus

What if a near-Earth objects hits us tomorrow? What if no one re-charters?

 

Let's see how this plays out. The KoC is simply working with the parish and diocese to consolidate all youth groups under one umbrella. They didn't do it screw scouting. So, yes, it was a simple reorg.

 

However, no one has ever said that there is not SOME consolidation during ANY reorg. Some units may not find a parish, but I suspect you might see a unit merger OR they will find another CO. 

I think we have to agree that our units are different. In my unit, the good scouts, the active ones, the ones who are developing as leaders, get elected. The big boss types that mommy and daddy think are gods gift to the Troop? The other boys see right through them.

 

 

It is not just my unit. It is every unit I see and talk to. It is my personal interaction with the OA youth on which my opinion is based. These guys are the popular types, many not very good leaders.

Wouldn't record attendance at NOAC prove the point of everyone gets in?

 

How can our overall membership numbers be dropping, but OA members rising to record levels, if not the fact that we are accepting more (undeserving) people in to OA?

 

In my troop as a kid we have maybe 8 guys in OA out of 70+ guys. We had plenty eligible. We all camped a ton. But we really only thought those guys who were elected deserved it. They walked on water in our eyes.

 

Today I cannot say the same.

@@desertrat77 is spot on. These facilities have not been upgraded in 40 years. Their are at least 10 years since the last repair. Ever seen what the Texas sun does to untreated wood? I encourage those folks that "see no problem" with those pics to come to Texas and visit the camps. The out-of-council boys get the worst of the facilities. 

 

Now, the council says they have plans to upgrade things across all four camps. And a few camps are getting some upgrades, but the point is the money is being spent in the wrong places on the wrong things. Add to that the insult of having someone say FOS is mandatory participation -- knowing he doesn't have to put his keaster on that john -- well, you might be able to see my point. If not, that's fine. Come to Texas, camp in our camps and break out *your* checkbook.

Like most things in Scouting, all Scouting is local. Your mileage varys, your professional staff, your camp, your OA lodge, your training events, your camporees. They all vary in quality year to year and from council to council.

We agree, though I personally don't see a variance year on year.

 

Generally speaking, OA elections are a "popularity contest", but I trust the Boys to elect the folks who are actually leaders and good young men. I don't have the crud in my eyes of watching my perfect snowflake fail to get elected year after year.

Straight popularity contest. I've seen guys who were solid leaders, outstanding campers and have 10 times the service hours of the other candidates go un-elected for several years....all because they are not popular, but still very good scouts.

 

I have no experience with the process of Adults becoming OA members. It's not something I've dealt with, since I don't handle that kind of nonsense in my unit. ​

How do you "elect" adult OA members then?

 

I'm not a big proponent of the whole "today sucks, the past was so much better" worldview. Perhaps it was because I wasn't alive in the glory days and just don't know what I missed out on....

Too bad. Today does suck and yesterday was much better.

 

In any case, to the original poster, the OA is another opportunity for your son and yourself( if you want to) ​​to be involved with Scouting a bit more on the council level. It wasn't something I was interested in, and I've spent my youth and adult Scouting on the unit level almost exclusively.

Doesn't this actually prove the point I am making? Even you -- a very gun-ho Brotherhood member -- is not active in OA right now nor were you "as active as you wanted to be". So what is the benefit besides losing more money and getting a cool patch?

 

Interesting points, but seems your lack of involvement in OA proves the point: time is better spent in your own unit.

Krampus I honestly didn't see anything wrong with the bathroom facilities and used them pretty frequently at the home camps.  Until recently that's all we had, we just put in 12m into our two camps but I make sure I visit the old latrines.   

 

The point is that the trap johns are horrid in 103F heat. The smell is god aweful. The kids cannot stand the smell and all head to the staff (flush) latrines. Wash up facilities are bad too. Compared to other options outside of council these facilities are in the Dark Ages. Then they spend millions on a facility that is only used by the staff and super volunteers and OA? We won't even talk about the $12m still in the bank which was given specifically for camp upgrades by Ross Perot.

 

But okay, fine. Don't upgrade the stuff the units use frequently....but don't come asking us for money either. Go ask the OA or the district our council folks to dig deep.

Look at all that hand-holding going on in Syria between the Muslim factions. Warms the heart. 

One does not have to risk one's life to save another, so that litmus test is moot. People's lives are saved every day without the rescuer putting their life in danger.

 

It likely is fairly subjective even to those reviewing the application. I have friends and family that did some pretty heroic things; one even was nominated for the CMH.To a person they all just say they were doing their duty. IMHO it is THOSE PEOPLE who are the heroes. 

 

Let the board decide. If they agree, fantastic. If they don't, I wouldn't worry. In fact I would not tell my son (or anyone else for that matter if I was submitting for a third party) that I am nominating them. Reason: If they get the award the will be surprised. If they don't, I wouldn't want some arbitrary board tarnishing what, to me, was a heroic act.

Still so many heathens to convert.

Stosh,

 

By professional, I meant anyone with high level knowledge, skills, abilities, and certifications who have a legal obligation to perform tthe needed skill.

 

Isn't that usually paid professionals? My brother-in-law is a former EMT (like @Stosh) but he is under no legal obligation to render any assistance.

All good responses which take us back to the original post: Why OA?

 

It's a weekend, a flap and another set of dues. There is no obligation, no teaching, no mentoring, no service...no honor. Everyone gets in. Pay your dues and wait, everyone makes Brotherhood. Wait a bit longer, play some political games and, again, pay more dues and you make Vigil. That's my area, at least.

 

I will not belong to OA. These days, it is more a badge of honor NOT to be in OA. People ask me why I'm not and I tell them. Most nod their head in agreement. Some nod and tell me to join and change it. Few...very few...will argue with me about how wrong I am....and then under their breath say how I will never be in OA and thereby validating my assertion that it is an old-man's club of bitter guys trying to relive their lost scouting youth.

I can see some doing it.  The first time that someone is turned down for a adult leader position and they sue a church.... Katie bar the door.

That threat was always there.

I can't "thank"

 

See a therapist.  

 

Same problem here but only on certain posts.

I am sure if you submit someone in charge will define it for you...as to whether your son's situation applies.

I know there are a lot of complaints about some of the stuff being built at camps. Heck I was ticked off at the pool that was built at my old camp, when we have a gorgeous man-made lake with built to Safe Swim Defense specs waterfront. I thought it was a waste of money.

 

BUT, I found out that there are a lot of laws, both federal and state, that are being pushed on camps. That was why my old camp had to build a pool.

 

That's why all BSA camps have to deal with the National Camp Accreditation Program, which replaced the various National Standards. A lot of the improvements are being mandated.

 

I could buy all that, HOWEVER:

• Wouldn't better sanitation take priority over a $3m training center?
• Wouldn't better food safety take priority over a $50k storage garage?
• Wouldn't higher water quality take priority over $60k for new golf carts?
• Wouldn't a better med hut take priority over a $2m welcome center for camp directors?

I've looked through the standards and local laws. What is being done in my camps has nothing to do with standards. It has to do with making the camp look nice for those who matter....and that's not the people who pay the annual dues.

I don't think it's that simple. The parishes will have to pick up the charters. In any given case the pastor could refuse. Or the local parish might already have a troop.

 

The press does not seem to echo any concern. Can't find a single story about it last I looked.

 

I can't see the church turning down any units. The units in my area are already "absorbed" in to the Catholic parish. They have new meeting locations, etc.

@@Krampus

 

I never did get the quote notification.  Go in and edit your profile you need to do a check box on that feature.  Must have gotten turned off during the Great Crash of 2015. 

 

I did find the ignore button.  That works nicely. 

 

Seems to be working now. Wasn't since the crash. Was not working earlier today when other posts were quote. Very odd.

 

EDIT: Not working entirely. Was quoted in other threads and did not notify.

I get my notifications now if I get mentioned.

 

@@Krampus

 

testing

Got that...finally. Do you get quote notifications too? Still don't.

Odd. I can post, reply,  PM. Have not tried to open a thread. Just no notifications.

 

Still not working. Tagging people works but they get no notification that they're tagged or that someone has quoted them.

while the site was down, I read a few scouting books.  one of them addressed some of this issue

"So Far So Good: A New Scoutmaster's Story, by Clarke Green"

I thought it was a good read, and probably should be required reading before Scoutmaster Specific.  An easy quick read & I'll bet even very experienced Scouters would get a thing or two from it, even if they wouldn't want to admit it.

 

Anyway, he sets up a few parent type situations and how a scouter might deal with them.

 

One would think WB would have a module on parent mgmt and conflict resolution.

We do the standard Scout Parent training for ours.

 

The Parent Training I was talking about is "how to be a parent". 

 

ROFL....do they teach that?

 

We had a parent help her son buy food for a camp out. He showed up with Friday dinner: Microwave hamburgers in plastic pouches. I kid you not. The kid knew better; the parent insisted what she bought was more "practical" for the camp out.

 

Not sure you can fix that amount of stupid. 

Krampus, your description and photos of the latrines are producing a powerful memory!  

 

AC and flush toilets for WB training, the "pinnacle of scout leader training."    And, of course, when the pro staff in Irving needs to get away from work for an off-site, where better to reconnect with scouting and the outdoors than a nice building with all of the amenities suited for one's station in life?

 

Here's one of the two new buildings.

 

OK, I am seeing this from the perspective of our council.  The office is in a modest building that also houses the scout shop.  I believe there are 4 paid employees (in the office), the executive, a book keeper, the person who processes all the advancement paperwork and a recently added part time receptionist.  There are volunteers that help out.  We have 2 scout camps that run summer camp programs and a cub scout camp that, until this year, ran cub day camp and webelos arrow of light overnight camp.

 

I can understand. But if things are so modest it sounds like cash flow may be the problem. My council his HUGE and we have four camps...all of them have issues. All of them have great buildings for staff but slight amenities for us members. The council has money int he bank. We also have Taj Mahals for scout shops and offices, so I know where they spend the money and where they don't

 

If your council has three camps then maybe they have one or two too many. If the offices are spartan then austerity measures may be needed. If fundraising is an issue then new ideas are needed. Not saying dues increases are not needed, but that's the easy string to pull and requires no hard thought or belt tightening. As a business person, when I hear of increases without other measures being addressed I know they are taking the easy way out.

Basically, you train them up as full members of the troop committee.  Good.

 

Yes, or just short of full training for ASMs (minus leader-specific and IOLS). We never want to be in a position of having to cancel an event because we don't have trained adults around. This also includes making sure all ASMs have WRFA, basic first aid, CPR/AED, etc. We also make sure we have at least 20-30 boys trained in these same areas. Let's face it, the old goats are the ones most likely to need aid.

I posted some incorrect information above, which I have stricken out in that post.

 

A new Scout who began working on the Scout badge (old requirements) before Jan. 1 but has not completed it as of that date may continue working on that badge. He does not to earn the new Scout rank. After completing the Scout badge he must then use the new requirements for all other ranks.

 

Sorry for the confusion.

Unless that Scout (who has earned Scout under the 2015 requirements) and starts working on Tenderfoot *before* Jan 1, 2016. In that case he may use the 2015 requirements until he completes FC. If he does not complete FC in 2016 he must use the 2016 requirements.

 

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/program_update/pdf/Transitioning_New_Requirements_2016.pdf

The council gets no money from National, yes, they exist for the units but how are they supposed to pay for the services they provide?

The fees charged by summer camp is enough to offset that cost.  They pay councelors, for food, for program.  Not sure they could charge enough to offset taxes, year round property management and camp imporvements and have anyone afford to go to camps.

Our council is doing better and managing their money, they paid off our debt and have come in at or just under budget for the last 3 years, but again they have done no maintenance or upgrades on any of the camps.

 

The councils SHOULD be able to recover their operating costs through:

• Sale of merchandise
• Fees for summer camp or use of council camps
• FOS and other donations/bequests
• Sponsorships
• Fundraising...and if nuts, popcorn don't work find something people actually need
• Upgrades can be funded by fundraising, having the OA actually *do* something, ask for units to help by volunteering to work on projects, get in-kind contributions, etc.
• Cut costs b/c I will guarantee if a business man got in to the council's books they'd fine a lot more to cut than the council does

But no, councils take the easy way out: Tax their members. That's the coward's way out. Rather than actually *think* or work on something of value, they simply raise membership dues.

 

I am glad my council does not take this approach (raise dues). I guess I have that to be thankful for.