Bob Russell

I have not posted on this board for quite some time, but I guess it's time to come back. I'm glad to see so many familiar names, and so many new ones. My occasional view of postings has showed a continued civility not seen elsewhere. In reading CubScouterFather's posts, I recalled participating in these discussions several years ago, and once I reviewed this topic, I realized it was this very same topic heading. Phil, if you have not read the entire topic, please go to page 2 of this topic, and you will see that I raised your situation, that of scout parents who are gay/lesbian. My vi

Check with your local outdoor equipment stores. They will often have lists of local individuals who do good work at a fair price. We have used the same woman for many years and get great service. we got her name from our local REI store. If you give us your location, someone here may have a local reference for you.

Your first step should be to keep any more funds from disappearing. All checks should be collected immediately and the signature card changed to remove the treasurer's authority. If this cannot be done immediately, someone authorized to sign checks should remove the remaining funds from the account and open a new account. All bank records should be reviewed, if they can be obtained from the teasurer, and if not, order copies from the bank. After they are reviewed, I suggest a meeting with the treasurer and Pack representatives. If she just got in over her head, even financially, she may b

Yaworski: "So what you are telling me is that you have no courage in your convictions. You want your real opinions to be unattributable to you so no one knows what you really think. Sound like you embody the principle of "a Scout is Brave." I haven't been posting much lately, but your comment here needs a comment. You jump on NJCubScouter for not using his real name, instead following a time-honored tradition of using an Internet nickname. Yet his member profile will identify him pretty well to those in his district, so he is clearly not hiding his identity. Unlike you, of course, Mr.

Living in Oregon, we will naturally be right in the middle of some of the celebration. We have talked some of canoeing a portion of the Columbia River west of Portland to Astoria at the mouth of the river. This will correspond to the L&C route down the river. Since this is late in their journey, in 1805, we have several years to match up with the 200 year celebration here. We did the same stretch of the river several years ago, so we have a head start on the planning. If any troop would like to join us, or merely needs help in planning and information sharing, let me know.

We returned last weekend from Camp Cooper in the Oregon Coast Range. Eleven scouts and two adults, the scouts each earned several merit badges and the younger scouts progressed well in their rank advancement. Each patrol earned Honor Patrol (2 of 4 in the entire camp) and the troop earned Honor Troop (1 of 2 for the week). The staff was the best I have seen in our council, enthusiastic, helpful, often visited the campsites. The staff was extremely respectful at flag each day, and I suggested to our scouts that they watch the staff as to how to act at flag. Dining hall was overfull, but th

Although I voted for rectangle and man made fibers, I don't actually own one like that. I bought my rectangular down bag 25+ years ago from REI when I was a college student in Michigan, and the cold winters justified down. Now in Oregon, where it often seems like it is 33 degrees and wet, it is not ideal, but everyone who knows me knows that I am cheap and do not quickly (25+ years?) change what I use. After one of our snow cave outings on Mt. Ranier, with a wet down bag, I did buy a very nice -20 Polarguard mummy bag from REI. But only for winter camping.

OGE, I enjoyed your site. Looking at your summer camp info, I'm curious - are you going on the Muck Hike?

OGE, allow me to be the first here to congratulate you and Mrs. OGE on 25 years. I think your scouts will understand if you miss a few days of summer camp this year. My wife and I celebrate our 25th also this year. Since I missed our 20th and 23rd while away on scout canoe trips, she laid down the law and said no canoe trip on our 25th. Our canoe trip this year departs 2 days after our anniversary. Our troop is very accomodating. Rooster, you are quite right when you honor our spouses who let us go off with our scouts. No doubt because all of our families know the value of what

I found this article on the situation on the NY Times website: MANHATTAN: SCOUT LEADER ADMITS MOLESTING BOY A former Boy Scout troop leader charged with molesting a boy in his troop on a regular basis in 1996 and 1997 pleaded guilty yesterday to four counts of third-degree sodomy and will be sentenced this summer. Prosecutors recommended a sentence of two years and eight months to eight years for the former scout leader, Jerrold Schwartz. He admitted yesterday in State Supreme Court that he had engaged in sexual intercourse on numerous occasions with the boy in his office at East 80th Street

Rooster, you didn't comment on a part of the story that is equally disturbing - he will be free until August, in Colorado, where he owns a tour bus company that caters to scouting trips, to "attend to his affairs." I assume that his affairs include either winding down the business, or possibly meeting the business' obligations! I hope that there is more to this, and strict rules are imposed to keep him from any involvement with the scouting outings.

I have stayed out of these conversations for a while, but recent comments bring to mind an issue that has not yet been discussed - the sharing of sleeping quarters, whether tents or otherwise. As you all surely know, I am in favor of the local option approach. However, if we get to the point where openly gay scouts are in a troop, how do we handle tent arrangements on outings? First, consider Venturing, which I am pretty sure does not allow male and females to share a tent. The reason must be because of possible sexual attraction. Parents of young people would, or should, object to teens

Julia, I'm going to jump in here and back up Rooster on your comment about beating up lesbians. This is obviously a reference to the tragic Matthew Sheppard situation. As many may know, he was brutally beaten and left to die, and one of his assailants happened to be an Eagle Scout. Your implication is that BSA's policy caused the assailant to want to kill gays, or that Boy Scouts approve of this act. I find that implication offensive. It may be that his scouting experience did not do enough to make this young man the type of person we hope scouting helps develop, but scouting did not crea

The disgraceful situation the Catholic Church has put itself in is one the Boy Scouts long ago wisely avoided. Our two-deep leadership requirement, when followed religiously (pun intended) will not allow this disgrace from happening to us. Priests, just like scoutmasters, are role models who parents want and need to trust. This crisis shows that evil can lurk even in those that the public trusts. I am Catholic, and my family is a regular church-attending family, and it pains me to see this disgrace occurring. The evil committed by the priests is bad enough, but the coverups and denials are

Bob, you seem to be looking at it as an either/or proposition. Neither Rooster nor I are saying that a good national advertising program solves all the problems of the world. A good ad program by national may help to get more kids to consider scouting - then it is up to us to make sure the actual troop and district programs keep them there. The 50% loss rate you refer to is certainly a local unit issue. But getting more kids in the door to look at the local program is also needed. And as you say, we then have to have the good program so we don't lose 50% of a bigger number of kids. We loca

I agree completely with Rooster and his comments on marketing the program that scouting offers. Commercials and ads in youth oriented magazines showing the adventurous activities that are available in so many of our units, and realistically available nowhere else, could entice some boys to at least look into Scouting. Also, how about some commercials with "heroes" of today's youth, such as athletes who were in scouting, talking about what it meant to them. I try to give examples of Eagle scouts, but all I ever come up with are Gerald Ford and Neil Armstrong. This means nothing to youth to

I have found a great deal of overemphasis of sports as of late. My younger son, a 7th grader, plays fall soccer, winter basketball, and now spring track. With each sport, we balance sports and scouting. Many of his teammates seem to do nothing but sports, several in a season. I guess they and their parents believe that a well-rounded son is one who can balance several sports at once. I believe that sports are great for kids, but they simply do not provide all of the experiences and skills that people need. While sports generally do require teamwork, a noble goal, they do not often develo

Ed, you stated: "If I choose to exercise my 1st Amendment right of free speech about a BSA policy I don't agree with in public, the BSA can't - I repeat - can't remove me from it's membership. They can't exercise their 1st Amendment to exclude certain lifestyles then punish me for exercising my 1st Amendment rights." This is an incorrect interpretation of the Bill of Rights. It is common for people to claim 1st Amendment protection in private situations, but it doesn't hold up. The Bill of Rights protects us from government interference only. BSA uses the right of association, which by t

NJ and tj, you know that I agree with you on the issue of gays in scouting. BSA has taken the position that homosexuality is immoral, and I disagree, as do you. However, I do not believe that this policy is in conflict with BSAs principles on religion. I will give several examples. Although many religions do not label homosexuality as immoral, neither do they label females as second class individuals. Yet we do not allow girls in Cub and Boy Scouting. Is this a violation of religious principals? In some Moslem countries, men can have multiple wives. If a scout leader was a bigamist, w

Last summer we ran an independent camp rather that attend a regular summer camp. A number of our scouts had completed their junior year in high school and they had attended every camp in the area at least once. This allowed them a new experience for their final summer camp. We camped for a week on an island in the Columbia River, and emphasized boating activities. We had canoes, motorboats and a number of sailboats, from small to large and a Hobie Cat. Merit badges were the boating MBs, plus camping, wilderness survival, etc. The boys earned fewer badges than at a regular summer camp, bu

I was down to our council office today and picked up a copy of the brochure for "The Oregon Trail Hike (Established 1843)." I have not hiked any of it, so I have no first hand knowledge of the trails, although I have played tourist near some of the trails. The brochure gives general information on the route, and award information. The Oregon Trail Hike awards have been approved by our Cascade Pacific Council, and include a patch and bronze, silver and gold medals. The brochure has a contact person, who will send more detailed info upon request. If you would like a copy of the brochure, co

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/03/22/nyregion/22BIG.html (Link requires registration - free) This column in the New York Times, of all places, centers on the Catholic Church's problems with a number of the Church's priests. The article makes a distinction, which the press often does not, between pedophilia and the more common problem of priests involved in sex with teenagers. The column ends with the following: "The issue of gay priests is very sensitive, and not just for the Catholic Church," Dr. Jenkins said. "It bears on controversies like allowing gay men in the Boy Scouts. I'm

Ed and Bob, you are going back and forth about what is legal. I understand the reason for this discussion, but I think you may want to go beyond the pure legality under BSA rules. If a scout is clueless as to an item covered by the merit badge, I would think that this is a good opportunity to discuss, privately so as to not embarrass the scout, what it means to EARN a merit badge and remind the scout of the Scout Law, especially that a scout is trustworthy. Ultimately, if the scout resists and claims that he did complete the badge, and is just having a mental block, etc., the BSA rules do e

Scott, the US Scouting Service Project has a number of ceremonies which may be right for you. Check them out here: http://usscouts.org/usscouts/ceremony.asp Good luck.

I have avoided this thread, but I feel compelled to comment on Weekender's comment: "I also doubt that either of you truly care about scouting but that you are simply here to promote your own perverse lifestyle." Also: "I don't understand why we keep talking to these two...we know what they are!!!" Oh, enlighten us Weekender, don't beat around the bush! And since I have agreed with NJ on the other threads, do you also know what I am? Scouters can disagree with you and still "truly care about scouting." A number of councils have petitioned for a change in this policy. Week