Vicki

>Too bad. "America" is part of the name of our country, thus, we are Americans. They need to get over that. > Lots of people need to get over lots of things. A point that's been made already in this thread and kind of what I was getting at. But if we wanted to play nice (which we mostly don't) we'd try to say North Americans, since we are neither Central nor South Americans. And Canadians are happy with being Canadian. Vicki

Well, I, too, just completed my Ordeal (with my son, who also got called out at camp) - the pre-Ordeal and Ordeal ceremonies all included face-paint, loin-cloths with leggings (no boxers in sight) and, in general, beautiful regalia which made every effort to be authentic along with wonderful drum work. Both ceremonial teams did a great job. Question - I thought that OA was based on the Lenni Lenape (Delaware) tradition? That Vigil names are from that language? I gather the interest has expanded based on the geographical location of the OA lodge? Also, having spent time in South and Central America - they cringe when we call ourselves "Americans" as if we have an exclusive right to it (as you do in one of your questions, Akaluga). Once you start down the PC road... Vicki

>These girls helped with a service project??? That is sooo cool, they deserve an extra s'more!! jd> This says more than the obvious. These are young women who are "in the program". Wonderful observation, John. Vicki

I really think you've done what you can. Anything more and you're sending the entirely wrong message to the young adults involved (and at that age I remember having a really powerful receiver for wrong messages). All that's left is vigilance. Vicki

No words of wisdom, HW, but thanks for the hard work at the Fall Reunion. Of course, having just become an Ordeal member, I don't have anything to compare it to - but it came off really well IMO. Vicki (used to be a Bear)

OGE, having only been a participant, obviously a staffer could better speak to your point. A possible explanation is that a LNT site is part of the curriculum as well as the problem solving activities but that exactly who is staffing those activities is left up to the discretion of the CD? Just a thought, Vicki (used to be a Bear)

Gotcha. Not sure I needed the shout (AS STAFF) - I think I would have gotten your point without it:

I apologize, but I find the question a little bit confusing - realizing this thread was started in May:

Well, fscouter, as has been said in so many threads in so many ways, "sometimes you just gotta do what you gotta do." Vicki

OK, this post is more about general training and not specifically BALOO vs. any other cub-level training. I joined at the troop level (DH was Tiger Cub leader and is currently CC until our youngest crosses over). When I joined the troop I was encouraged to take all the training available, even though my position was treasurer. The thought being 1) the more training the better to understand how the BSA operates and 2) if I ever wanted to hold any other position, I would already be trained. Long story short, I'm now ASM/New Scouts and treasurer (those dual hats somebody mentioned). I really don't see why you wouldn't go ahead and do it. In the corporate world, it's called cross-training - I supervise a relatively large staff and it's a biggie with me. Never have been a big fan of the logic that says "only teach them what they need to know." With no offense intended to anyone, that always seems just a little bit patronizing. Vicki

Well, TP, I certainly hope you get your approval and beads quickly! Impending congratulations to you! Just to counter what some have posted here - I finished my ticket in February, submitted it and had my presentation on March 10th. So it doesn't have to take forever... Vicki (I used to be a Bear)

Yeah, poppa wasn't too happy about the time in the woods this summer, either...although it's not my fault I have all that vacation, is it? Vicki

All of the above, however in internet parlance, DH stands for Dear Husband. OK, so he doesn't drool:

Semper, I AM momma and I'm usually pretty happy:

Hope his buddy was within earshot (BIG grin). V

OK, now I've had a few minutes to reflect on the comment, "charity has nothing to do with it". Charity has everything to do with the attitude of her article, not just the Boy Scout part of it, and that's what I meant. I've already posted my opinion on that. She gives no one any slack in her article - she is an equal opportunity basher of conservative politicians, families, teenagers, kids and even people with blisters on their feet. I'll bet she's never experienced a tolerant smile in her life. Life's too short. Vicki

first, I'm not sure you got the message in my first post, or maybe I'm not reading yours correctly. I believe we agree. Vicki

Our Scouts do the MDGT too - an opening ceremony, with bagpipes, at Jefferson Barracks National Cemetery. Then we fan out to put flags on the graves (no leis, here). Very moving. Thanks, Vicki(This message has been edited by Vicki)

But ya know what really frosts my chaps about this article? One, the idea that our boys are being raised to be cannon fodder (the last paragraph). That one sort of sends me ballistic, actually, until I consider the source. She absolutely does not understand the nature of patriotism. Two, her objection to the fact that life goes on - families enjoying ice cream, people taking pictures, etc. Again, total lack of charity. Vicki

I happen to think that this author lacks charity but gotta go with jr56 on this one - unless the correct behavior is pointed out and enforced (oh, Lord, please help me but it feels like a million times! ), it will not happen. Real-life example - our troop went to Shiloh, TN where there's a huge military park. We had a talk with our scouts about where we were going, the importance of it, the need for appropriate behavior and what that is. Only had to remind a few of them every once in a while during the several hours we were there. Fine, they're 12 to 16, short memory/attention span. Another troop was there, acting like a bunch of primates - swinging on the monuments, jumping on and off of them. No adults in sight. I assume they were at the visitor's center. When reminded of appropriate behavior, they quit (at least until we were gone). Point: as adults, we must be there and be corrective. Civilization doesn't just "happen", it's taught. Repeatedly. Vicki

Good reminder, SN - our troop has three lifeguards, one of whom is the Cub Master for the pack and the other (me) has a boy in the pack. One or both of us is at all water events. Vicki

Allen, back when I first joined, I, twice attempted to contact anyone at Scouter.com and didn't get a reply. If you still haven't received a reply, try going to profiles and finding Hops Scout. He's one of the moderators. Maybe you'll get a reply to a pm directly to him. Vicki

muckraker, your post brings up a question - is it appropriate for OA members to wear their sashes at either 1) a crossover ceremony where a ceremonial team is "working" or 2) at an Arrow of Light ceremony (which is separate for our pack)? Our OA folks currently only wear their sashes at OA-specific events. I have no intention of rocking the boat, just curious about how other folks do things. Vicki (edited to correct a word)(This message has been edited by Vicki)

I like it. Simple and to the point. I also like jafyfe's suggestions. Pools are important wherever it gets hot and for various reasons - not to mention coaching for the swimming test. Vicki

Wow, not to drag a red herring across the path, but can you imagine being either that Chief or the boy who has just been declared unworthy! Talk about scarring potential! How did you cover it, GB? Glad it obviously worked out all right. Vicki