Twocubdad

Mr. Moose was my favorite. The ping pong balls cracked me up everytime.

One of the things I enjoy most about this forum is that it is a free exchange of information, with all the loudmouths, dumb ideas and ignorant opinions that come with that. But in the end the truth usually rises above the clatter. We are pretty good about policing our own. Post something stupid and it's a sure bet you're going to be called on it. I know I've written, re-written, written again and then deleted posts because I know they won't stand up to the scrutiny of the group. I think a better warning would be to new members not to necessarily take the first answer they get, especially if they're are asking for a definitive policy-type answer. For those cases the best answers are those that include a reference to a specific BSA publication. But if all you're looking for is opinions and different persectives on a problem, you've come to the right place.

Last time I checked, this thread was regarding the weather in Des Moines. When you guys hijack a thread onto football, how about letting a guy know. How 'bout them Cowboys, Hops? The Cowboys aren't even the best team in Texas anymore. I thought you were from Louisiana, Hops. You need to be pulling for the Panthers and Jake Delhomme is another fine Lousiana boy. Geux Panthers! Just so you know, I sitting here in my new NFC championship hat and t-shirt. Life is good. I'm a little bummed that I didn't win the lottery for SuperBowl tickets, but I'll get over it. Did you hear about the gold phone on the end of the Cowboy's bench? It's Bill Parcell's direct line to God. Calls cost $500 a minute. Andy Reid has a similar phone in Philly. Calls are $1000 a minute. John Fox also has a direct line to God on the Panther's sideline. All calls are 25 cents a minute. From Carolina heaven is a local call. Panthers 20, Patriots 17

www.praypub.org

In years past, our problem has been "What the heck do we do with all these kids," not how to get more to attend. This year we have more space and have the opportunity to do some promotions. In the past, our only promotions have been to the units through Roundtable. We start with preview flyer in January, do our big presentation in February, a reminder in March with registration due in April. We will continue to do that, but the problem with Roundtable is that you're going to miss a portion of units who just don't go to Roundtable. You're also counting on the unit leaders to do the promotions directly to your customers, the Scouts. Our council does a fancy, full-color summer camp promotion mailer to every Scout in late February. It is usually geared toward Boy Scout camp, so this year we are piggy-backing an inexpensive photocopied flyer about day camp onto the ones being mailed to Cubs in our district. This will put a promotional flyer directly in the hands of every Cub at no additional mailing expense to us. In addition to building interest in the camp generally, we hope this will bypass the slack units/leaders who don't get the information to their Scouts. This year we have offered to do a camp promotion presentation at February and March pack meetings. So far, we have left it up to the pack leaders to ask for a presentation. Our plan is to target those units who don't attend camp or only have a few Scouts attending by contacting the leaders ourselves and asking if we can come do the presentations. The presentations generally involve someone in costume related to the camp theme talking up camp and distributing flyers. As with all presentation to Scouts, explosions, flames and screams are always a nice addition. Have you been to camp school, Foto? Part of what you will learn there involves marketing your camp.

Watch you step, big fellow!

I wish I could get some of these guys to hang around, but most of them are more excited about becoming Boy Scouts than their sons are! I would like to have some long-term volunteers in our pack. Our tradition is that leaders move up through the program with their son and leave when he crosses over. We only have one "community volunteer" who does not have a son in the pack.

Okay, for the third time: consideration for district and council awards should not be limited to volunteers who serve at the district and council level. Or as I said earlier, if there are 5,000 volunteers in a council, any one of those 5,000 who have demonstrated exemplary service to youth (yes, I understand "youth" not just "Scouts") should be considered. It stands to reason that a council volunteer who serves 400 units would be included in that consideration. My whole point is to include volunteers at ALL levels in consideration for an award. I'm not sure why you keep trying to distort my position to be that I want to exclude council-level volunteers. If you're bent on arguing that point, perhaps FOG will oblige.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out when councils are forced to choose between enforcing this policy and dropping units and membership. I'd feel a whole lot better about this if our training committee had spent as much effort getting their act together, making sure adequate trainers were in place, that training records were accurate and that all leaders have plenty of opportunities for training. These mandates only shift the responsibility from the the training committee to the units and individuals: They don't have to provide convenient training times because you have to take the training whether it's convenient or not. They don't have to make the training interesting because you have to take the training whether it's interesting or not. They don't have to do a good job communicating with leaders because you have to find out when the training is going to be available.

The red cow gives no milk.

Bob, you challenged johnsned's post that awards should be considered regardless of the level, by asking, "Did anyone suggest anything else?" The purpose of that particular post (with the two quotes) was to show that yes, Eamonn started the thread by saying he believed SBs and DAMs should be for council and district-level service. A statment with which you agreed 100 percent. Are you now agreeing with johnsned? Eamonn, we just have an honest disagreement here. You say "I still think that this person (receiving the award)has got to have done something in the council." My point is simply that all volunteers are doing something for the council and are worthy of the highest recognition a council can offer. By the way, I don't dismiss the support of a long-time financial supporter, like your friend the doctor. But like volunteers who donate their time, these folks need to be in it for the long haul. One big check isn't enough. (This message has been edited by Twocubdad)

Oh, please! I've suggested nothing of the sort. If you will do me the courtesy of reading what I wrote instead of "suggesting" some obtuse point you prefer to debate, I believe you will find I have made my point a couple times.(This message has been edited by Twocubdad)

Our council only has us pay the net cost of the popcorn. My solution to stuff like that is simply not to play the game. Tell your DE he can have $6000 now and the balance when the checks clear, nothing now and $10,000 when the checks clear, or they can have 800 $7 checks and worry about when they clear themselves. Your council's popcorn people need to remember who their customers are -- YOU! They need to remember you are putting $3,000 profit in their pocket!

Eamonn: The Silver Beaver Award is the highest award that a council can bestow on a volunteer. I tend to look at the award as a council award. By this I mean it is for people who have gone above and beyond to work for the council. Bob White: 100% with Eamonn.

Roger that.

Well I think this is just a completly bogus story! Every rookie uniform cop knows that you don't take on a four-beaded silver beaver in public and without back up! You've got to take these guys when they're off guard -- in the men's room or on a dark trail on the way back from a campfire. NEVER on their own turf in the middle of a council banquet! SHEEESH!

Our boys receive the basic BSA kit at the pack Christmas party. They are free to buy the fender kit at the Scout shop or any of the other add-ons. There are also non-BSA parts out there which are okay too. Our guys add all kinds of stuff to their cars: Lego parts, toys, drivers, you name it. As long as the car uses the basic block and the original dimensions aren't altered, they can dress it up any way they want.

"the more known the scouter is to the committee, the the better they can select the most deserving candidate." That isn't necessarily a true statement. Your earlier comment that " it stands to reason that a person known throughout the council will garner more support" is more accurate and is precisely the problem our system tries to overcome. We want to make sure that the nominee is chosen by their service and not just by how well they are known by the committee.

What do you mean by stock car kit? The official BSA kit or something different. Down here in NASCAR country, "stock car" don't necessarily mean then same thing.

Correct again, my friend. "Re-election effort" was probably a historically poor choice of words. Johnson's Reconstruction policies quickly drew the ire of the Radical Republicans and even most moderates who in 1865 were still looking for more vengeance than reconciliation. Johnson hoped that by quickly repatriating (if that's the right word) many Confederate foot soldiers, that they would support him.

Originally there were several exceptions to Lincoln's (and later Johnston's) blanket pardons: those charged with treason, officers in the Confederate goverment and army, former US Congressment, those who owned property worth more that $20,000 and others. But even those people were provided with due process to appeal the denial. Eventually almost everyone who applied for a pardon received it, largely because it played in to Andrew Johnston's 1868 re-election effort. Of course that's not to suggest that presidential politics would ever be a factor in the War on Terrorism. (This message has been edited by Twocubdad)

A couple thoughts: First of all, to be brutally honest, you may be putting more into the preparations for den meetings than you should -- financially, emotionally, whatever. In over four years as a DL, I've never had a den meeting where it was a big deal if one kid didn't show. (One year, for a variety of reasons, my son and I were the only ones to show for a den meeting and got stuck making all our den's B&G banquet decorations. But no big deal.) Getting hosed over and over by the same family is frustrating (especially when the mom is a jerk on top of it all) but in the scheme of things the additional prep time and expense isn't really that much. Beyond that, all the suggestions the others have made are good. Was it Eamonn who said to take a deep breath, have a cup of tea and really consider what is best for this boy and all your Scouts? That was especially good advice. But let's say that at the end of the day, you've decided that dealing with this twit of a mom is just more that you should fairly have to endure. Getting yelled at by some nitwit was not what you voluntered to do. There is nothing in the world wrong with going to your committee chairman and asking that this boy be assigned to another den. A good CC is first going to try and solve the problem, but it sounds if you've been up and down that ladder already. It should ultimately it be your call as to who is in the den. If the CC disagrees, he or she has the option of finding a new den leader. I frankly think you have done your job in trying to accommodate this family and that this problem should now be in the hands of the pack committee. As a committee chairman myself, I don't think my den leaders should have to deal with such problems. A den leader gets chewed out by a parent, it's in my court from there on. As a committee chairman, I going to look at the problem with a strong eye for taking care of my voluneers. Hopefully, we can solve the money problems. There may be a good reason why they miss meetings at the last minute. But then again, the woman may just be inconsiderate and not care how her actions impact others. At minimum, if you've gone to the trouble to call and ask if they are going to attend a meeting, this family owes you the courtesy of a phone call to let know if their plans change. If the mom can't extend basic courtesies to the volunteers who are trying to help her son, perhaps Scouting is not the best place for them.

I can't think of a good reason to wear an OA sash while otherwise out of uniform, but I suppose it couldn't hurt. You can wear the sash over your jammies at night -- what ever trips your trigger. But if there is a compelling reason to do so, I don't know who would object. Perhaps if the OA is performing the opening or closing of a work day when the work is too grubby for even an activity uniform. I've seen on other threads where folks have read the "other OA functions" verbage so broadly as to cover any function. If the activity isn't exclusively an OA function, then the OA sashes should be worn only if there as good reason for it -- such as a meeting where the Arrowmen are ushers or campouts where the OA is providing a special service.

I understand your point, Bob, but it is emcumbent upon the selection committee to look beyond the nominees of whom they have a personal knowledge and select the most deserving individuals. I've not served on the SB selection committee, but I am on the district's award selection committee, which includes the District Award of Merit. Our policy is that we only consider the information on the nomination forms. That way the nominees who are well known to the selection committee don't have an advantage over a lesser-known nominee who has provided exemplary service to their unit. Of course the down side is that a nominee's selection depends on the strength of their written nomination. You may be the greatest Scouter ever, but if the person who nominates you only mention a minor aspect of your service, your nomination will be at a disadvantage. That is usually not a problem and is balanced out as well-deserving candidates often receive mutiple nominations covering various areas of their service.

You guys seem to have missed my point. It is simply this: Our council has about 5,000 adult volunteers. Any one of those 5,000 people who have demonstrated the necessary "exemplary service" to youth within the council should be considered for the Silver Beaver. It should not be limited to the few hundred who happen to serve on council-level boards and committees. At the same time I'll stick by my personal view that I would prefer the awards go to unit level volunteers. That's not to say that the guys who simply donate money or make sure the leaky dining hall roof is fixed aren't important. Of course it takes all types of support to run a sucessful program. But with all other things being equal (and assuming you could somehow make that apples-to-oranges judgement), if the choice for an award is between a SM who has spent 15 years delivering a great program to his unit and someone who has been generous in their financial support of Scouting for 15 years, my vote goes to the SM. That's just my bias. Put me on the awards committee and that's what you'll get. One more thing. I don't think a one-time donation, no matter how generous, should qualify someone for one of these awards. I hope the fireworks guy received the Silver Antelope for his long-time service to Scouting. If it were only for the great fireworks at the jamboree, that smacks of buying the award, even if there is no quid pro quo. Name the dining hall after them after the big-buck donors, but to me these awards have special significance. By the way, Eamonn, I would NOT place you doctor friend in this catagory. A "Friend of Scouting" (both literally and figuratively) over the long haul is definitely worthy of such recognitions. Kinda off the subject, but wasn't the District Award of Merit at one time named for some silver critter? I seem to remember that back in the day.