blw2

does anyone have it?  You just wrote it!!!

My advice....keep it real.  don't read a script.  You just wrote out a very good way to do it.  If you say it just a bit differently next time, so what?  It's a perfect concept.

For example, i can imagine with the number of keys...fumbling the number...even if I really know....then bounce it out to the audience....how many keys are there anyway?

"86" form someone..... someone else says "88"....someone else shouts "a thousand"....

I say, "well whatever....lets just say there are lots.....my point is this..."

That sort of thing engages them, gets them listing a bit.

Just keep it real

On 1/13/2018 at 2:49 PM, Stosh said:

  What are traffic lights?  And what are the red and green lights for?

maybe leftover Christmas decorations?  reminds me of some of my work trips to small towns in Louisiana.  Middle of the summer and lots of folks still had their Christmas lights hanging on their house!

On 1/13/2018 at 2:56 PM, Stosh said:

Seriously.... One of the things that BSA might want to consider along the way is a defensive driving course for volunteers just like YPT.  Yes there's danger involved with not having YPT, but the way some of these scouters drive with other people's kids concerns me.

For the Red Cross, I have to have taken the course to drive certain Red Cross vehicles and I hadn't taken any driver's education for 50 years.  It was on-line, cost $15 and was well worth it in valuable information.  I haven't ever had a bad accident other than a few fender benders, but after taking the course I drive differently.  It also lets me know now important it is when volunteering for other organizations and the expectations I have placed on me when I have other volunteers in vehicles with me.

I was tasked with driving a 14,000# vehicle from Orlando Florida to Santa Rosa CA.  Going across Texas the speed limit is 80 mph.  I did NOT drive that vehicle 80 mph because of what I learned in that class.  After working the wildfires, I drove another one of those vehicles back to Wisconsin driving 65-70 mph. 

Every now and then we get reports here on the forum of someone injuring or killing scouts.  Maybe we need to revisit this.

I've often thought about that very thing....but I suppose based on the lack of attention to it, that historically hasn't been too big of a problem

I once took a 1 day class for work.  Some company out of Deleware, I believe, where the corporation was based, came down complete with skid simulator rig on a rental car.  rented out a big parking lot at a dog track, set up cone courses.  taught basics such as mirror adjustment (the one big takeaway for me), driving posture, etc.....like half a day classroom.  Then we went out on the track and in our own cars practiced maximum performance braking, maneuvering, etc.... and then the skid simulator.  Not so usefull for me, having spent my teen years horsing around off road on muddy roads sliding and doing donuts...and having a fair bit of snow/ice driving experience..... but a lot of folks had never been in a real skid.  It was quite interesting.

Stosh

Love this thread idea.... but honestly I kinda figure most all threads on this or any forum are or at least should be like this.  Let conversation flow naturally I say.

It'll be obvious by the initial post if it's something more intended to be "on topic" versus a conversation.  A specific question or survey, for example, would be more of a stick to it kind of thing.... naturally.  Like patrols and scouting should be.  Not adult lead.

On 1/2/2018 at 4:25 PM, Tampa Turtle said:

I'd say it wasn't Kosher. Yeah, I used to be a 'car screener' and we bounced 1 or 2 that were not made from the kit. I know we had Outlaw races and Dad's races. I can see 3-D printed car races but not as an "Official Pinewood Derby" race. Seems like someone could win at a local unit and be bounced as they competed at District. But who knows these days?

I wanted to bounce a few like that

They were very obviously a pre-carved body store bought, and not from a block of wood in the kit.... I recognized some distinctive shapes from my web searches

but no real way to prove it....and we have to take them at their word..... standing there parent and son next to each other at the sign in table...."did you make this car?"  "Yes we did."  You know they are crossing their fingers behind their back....

If it were up to me  I think I would either do the build the day of the race, or at the meeting prior with all cars "sequestered" between meetings.  

As an engineer, I enjoyed trying to teach physics to my son.... CG, inertia, friction, etc.... and a lot of that couldn't be done quite to the same level if doing it all race day....

but all in all I think it would be better and more fun for the scouts

....actually is was son quitting scouts and scouter was frustrated anyway....

but I don't see harm in the subject drift.  that's the way conversations flow naturally.

If it was a specific question to be answered specifically then drift may not be so appropriate, but it was just a rant....bantering around this virtual campfire....

I've been using a jetboil for a  while

recently bought a BRS stove but haven't used it yet, except for testing at home....  hard to beat the weight and price of that thing.

But I do like the idea of alcohol stoves for the silence!  I've considered it and still may either make or buy one some day.... but no more than I hike, the canister is just easy

even when considering I may need to carry more fuel than i need

On 12/28/2017 at 8:39 AM, Eagle94-A1 said:

Yes, I've noticed the "Prohibited" and "Not Recommended" in the G2SS.

My understanding is that the homemade ones are "Prohibited." So the stoves in the old Cub Scout Leader How To Books are no longer allowed. But a manufactured stove, like a Trangia or Batchstovez are OK.

 "Not Recommended," is quite different from  "prohibited." Kinda like the Sheath Knife policy IMHO. Plus there is the "...that are not in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions for chemical-fueled equipment."  So if a manufacturer  states a fuel, like unleaded gasoline, is acceptable to use in their equipment, like a Whisperlite International, then it's OK.
 

and then you have the manufactured ones, like Zelph's stoves

http://www.woodgaz-stove.com/mega-starlyte-burner-with-lid.php

He's apparently been making manufacturing and selling these things commercially a long time....proven designs.

Would they be considered homemade?

I still am struggling with the fundamental semantics problem here..... how can they continue to brand it "Boy Scouts of America".....and why really would a girl strive to be a Boy Scout.... I just don't get it.

So I passed everything over to the new treasurer over the weekend, and we meet later this week to take me off the troop's bank account.....and at the end of the month my membership will lapse with the new charter.

I'm sad and happy at the same time.....sad for the loss of opportunity for my son.....happy to be getting out from under the constant conflict between what is (adult run) and what could be.  I no longer will get aggravated when receiving emails from adults about upcoming troop activities.... that clearly come from "the wrong" perspective....

But I'll still be checking in here likely, from time to time.... out of pure interest and desire to support.

nice....

my mom had saved my old cub shirt from the early/mid 1970's and passed it on to me when my son started cubs.  This was in the day of community strips and before the council shoulder patch.  My son showed little interest & i seriously doubt he'll want it.

I've been toying with the idea of sending it to the council where my pack was..... Dubuque IA

either that or trying to sell it on ebay....

agreed....a committee member is not in any position of power to really make the change....

about all that can be done is suggest and hint every now and then when appropriate.  Look for opportunities to encourage...

I think the best thing a person in that position can do is to dig deep for the patients as previously pointed out.  It can be very easy to get fruistrated

also very easy to tick off the other adults (specifically the SM and the CC) when you step on their toes suggesting things that are opposed to what they are doing.

A few years back, i asked a very similar question of Clarke Green over at scoutmastercg.com  My question prompted a blog post and podcast mention about "cooperative volunteering".

Basically his point was that as a committee member, especially a new person to the troop....about all you can do is work on building trust

I don't know if it was here or elsewhere, but I liked an analogy he used

You coming in saying that the troop needs to do X...... is kinda like you showing up at your Scout Master or your Committee Chairman's front door with a gallon of paint (you pick the color) and your telling him that what he needs to do is paint his living room this color.

we use troopwebhost.

I honestly haven't looked at scoutbook in quite a while but from what I recall it really didn't have tools for the treasury.  

I find troopwebhost fairly powerful for things like email and calendar.  It's a bit clunky and dated looking, but it works well.  From my perspective, the tools it offers for the money side alone are worth it though.  Even if the unit decided to beg off using any of the other features, I'd still insist on using it for the money.  If for nothing other than for transparency.... I like that any of the committee members (well any that have permission) can log in and see every transaction, everything I'm doing.

We use scout accounts, but only personally funded.  It's a great way for the members to prepay for things and for the treasurer to charge them.

19 hours ago, Eagledad said:

This is the reason I don't see the program with that addition of girls staying where it's at or ever going back to a more patrol method program. Eventually the adults without a scouting experience will level off to male and female adults with a scouting experience. But the experience will be from this generation, or next, view of the how the program should be used. The Canadian Scouts are already there.

As for not picking on females as the problem, I agree. The only reason I used them as an example is because we saw the program change when they we brought in as leaders. Not because they were female, but because they had no experience as a youth in scouts to base some of their expectations as an adult.

Barry

not because they are female,  but because they are female....

I read your post as being more forward looking, but I'd argue it's the same looking at the present or in the past too.  Almost all the female scouters bring in an experience that differs.  It's just a fact that they are female and generally speaking they come in with differing paradigms.  Some with a Girls Scout experience, some with a more feminine experience, most with a mom experience.  I'm not saying that any or all of those are bad mind you, just different...and it does change the dynamic.

9 minutes ago, qwazse said:

.....

A scouter like @WisconsinMomma might have been more comfortable had she been brought up through the scouting program in an era when kids were told not to come home until the streetlights came on. That's not the case, she was denied the privilege of being a bear or webelos or his/her sister/girlfriend and seeing us make our club and whittle our own derby car.  The notion of "trust the village, it'll raise your kid" is foreign, if not outlawed........

I was about to write that I'm not so sure I agree with the idea that scouters that were scouts as boys have the advantage

   my thinking being that a scout coming up through an adult lead program really has no advantage....except maybe that they have first hand knowledge of a sub-par program.  But do they know how to fix it?  Do they even know that they need to fix it?  Most folks just re[peat what they know.

but

your point about being a scout in the day that we roamed the neighborhood on our own probably adds a twist that i wasn't considering.  I was a cub scout back in those days, but my tenure as a boy scout was so short, and given my situation coming in older.... that I didn't get the full experience.... 
     disadvantage to me.

Amen Stosh!

of course I have never been blessed to see a really well "scout lead, adults out of it"  sort of troop...... so the conundrum I've always had is how to keep the scouts on track WITHIN the game of scouting.

I was talking the other day with the 1st year parent/scouter/former den leader that was going to be my replacement treasurer.  That scouter really seems to have a strong desire of wanting to keep the scouts in line and such, teach them "the way", make them tow the line, yes sir, and all of that......  I was trying to make the point that I feel that the scouts and troop would be better served by less adult imposition on the scouts.... letting them decide what they want to do, let them have more ownership..... let them find and enjoy a sense of discovery

I mean really, based on my years of studying on the subject, thinking different scenarios through, and so on....

I firmly believe that the scouts would have more fun (AND get more growth/character/leadership development on the side without directly knowing it) if the adults would leave the room.

The SM should coach the PL or SPL before and after the PLC, and be there to support them during the patrol and troop meetings and outings.... but only support when asked or when serous danger/injury is immanent...

but

at the same time when i boil it down to say "that the scouts should decide what they want to do...."

I remember that many of these scouts would really just prefer to do something that really isn't within the game or realm of "scouting".  They are perhaps more likely to choose something easy, such as hang out and play video games together. 

That is where the true art of scoutmastership really lies I think.

yes, very nice year I'd say, by the looks of it.  I especially like that there seems to be a lot of 

scouts actually doing....

   the team building problem solving stuff

   the pioneering stuff

On 12/13/2017 at 1:04 PM, fred johnson said:

.....

I often wonder how long I will participate after my sons age out.  I just don't know.  I often think that scouting is best when it's a youth program.  And, I'm not qualifying as a youth anymore . Perhaps I'll volunteer as a camp master.  Perhaps I'll continue my current roles.  But, I just don't know.  ......

Over the last few years, we've owned an RV and have enjoyed it.  i never used to picture myself as being one of those retired full time RV people.... but now I can in a way.  I've thought a few times that I could picture myself volunteering at a BSA camp for a few months over the summer if they gave me a place to park the RV.

I enjoy scouts....but....

My son isn't aging out.  he's quit.... and so I find myself resigning my post.  I'm currently training my replacement and my BSA registration will expire at recharter.  As I told the committee I feel the troop will be better served by someone that comes to the meetings more regularly. 

I think that IF i found myself in a SM role, and IF i was retired, with lots of time on my hands, I might maybe see myself staying on with the troop.  It would be fun

but

on the other hand, and I know there are exceptions to this, but first hand & personally I know of zero scouters that are really effective and energetic without sons in the troop/pack.  It seems that they try hard in many case, are well intentioned.....but it's just too easy to find excuses to miss meetings, miss outings, etc...

And besides i have mixed feelings in another way....

on one hand I think it's good sometimes to open up the few positions taht adults can fill to new parents wanting to do their part

but on the other hand I see so many folks that want to "go camping with their kid", and while that's admirable that's not the point of scouts.  Those folks might be better served if there wasn't an open position in the troop for another scouter....

Old Guard.... oh that brings back memories.  I used the same term.  We had an old guard cadre in the pack that was coming through the pack with younger sons after having "done it all" with the older sons.  They were burned out and didn't want to do it anymore.....but somehow they could not let it go.

Even later when they did let go and I agreed to help, they still didn't really let it go... and continued to not really help that much....and in my view their toxicity even hindered finding my replacement as CM when I was finally done.... some people wanted no part of it.....smart folks, those....

About getting volunteers.... 

I agree that the announcement in the front of the room doesn't work well, nor does the mass email or newsletter announcements..... but in my experience the targeted face to face asks don't necessarily go much better.  I got many "H.. no's".... "I'm too busy".... etc...

The way I figure it..... you either have a group that want to step up, or you don't.  At the pack level, you either have a group of families that like to do scouting things together, or you don't....

It's likely cyclic too.  You'll have a group that has enough to really pull together and do a lot, then the next group won't and the unit wilts and almost dies.... then another group comes in and steps up.  I actually think it's a necessary cycle, like fires in the forest.  And similar to the time when the underbrush and duff builds in the forest and chokes things off, the "old guard" phenomenon actually helps to kill the unit back a bit so that the next group can see something that needs to be done.

in a pure sense, the way it's "supposed to be", as I understand it

is pack and troop are each their own independent unit.....like separate companies.  

They are each responsible for and each control their own coffers, maintain their own "bank" accounts, pay their own bills

the charter org's "ownership" comes into play more in a situation where a unit dissolves....closes shop.  In such a case, the unit's committee is still responsible to use that unit's assets to pay off any debts, etc.... then hand over any remaining assets to the CO for future scouting use.

Now, that being said, the CO could I suppose very well institute their own twist to any of this.  they may require that the money is held in their account, managed by their people.  I suppose they could require that they are the ones to write the checks.

I've also heard it theorized over the years the possibility of shared committees between a troop and pack...even though on paper they would still be separate.  Personally, I think this has some merit.

Anyway, my guess in this case is that maybe there was some standing agreement that the troop and pack would collectively donate something to the CO regularly.  they paid both shares and now want to collect what's due them.  That's the only scenario I can imagine.... 

great question!

For me.... primary draw was to do my share.  My son joined scouting and I'm not so inclined to just let others do for me.  Just like at the end of the meeting when it's time to put away the chairs, I'm usually among the first to jump up and start stacking..... while others are leaving the room.

Secondarily....

I enjoy "doing the things that scouts do" to borrow a phrase from Clarke Green, so naturally I'd like to do those things with my son (doing those things that scouts do to me, means the camping, hiking, backpacking, canoeing, etc.... not so much the classroom stuff, arts and crafts, book work stuff, etc...)

Even though I'm introverted, I enjoyed the fellowship with other scouters, I enjoyed sharing in the occasional discovery with the boys, and in some cases I enjoyed getting to know the parents...other folks in my church that i did not know before.

I'd guess the answer might be whoever it is that actually owns this board.  Who is that anyway?

to the original post.... way too funny.  I had the EXACT same thoughts about both mags this month when I looked through them the other night....

I haven't been to our council's camp in a couple years now, but the way it was..... there's a small shelter at each site, just barely big enough for one picnic table under a roof.  There's an outlet there.  Not uncommon to see extension cords spread from there to nearby tents.

As I understand it, they have remodeled so that every site has a screened in shelter, with some sort of bunk house in the back for Scouters...basically a room big enough for a few bunks.  I would assume there's power.

No such thing at the last place I went to summer camp.  One of our ASM's brings a marine battery for his cpap.  I always thought that if I were him I'd rig up a small dolly for the battery, complete with charger.  That way he could wheel the thing up to the dining hall or wherever mid week to recharge if need be

I was thinkink about this thread yesterday, and how hard it is to know these sorts of things....gear being a very individual thing

but I was thinking that one of those small swiss army knives (a name brand quality one)or maybe a small multi-tool I would think would likely be a hit regardless.  Even if i have one or more I'd still appreciate another...and even if I was a knife collector and preferred some completely different kind of knife, it's still handy to throw into a day pack or sopmeplace as another backup.

Backpack

what you describe (The scouts themselves taking ownership and saying what they want to do I mean....) is what I'd guess is missing in a large majority of troops.  I know it is at least in our case...and a big reason my son has dropped.

Instead, what I have seen is more of a cub scouts on steroids approach

Meetings are boring

They don't really want to come....

and I'd venture a guess that a high number of our scouts, if pressed, would likely give a similar answer about being "made to come".  Some are just better about making the most of it than others are....

It's pretty clear many aren't all that jazzed about it, so I'd GUESS that many, if not made to go, are encouraged to with things like

you can't drive until you make eagle

or, if you don't do scouting then you have to do sports

or, something else like that.... a choice that they don't want to make.

yeah, we always did the first signed up, first paid thing....

although i don't think we ever really had much of a problem with this.  Even on the trips where we had to reserve a specific head count such as sleeping on the aircraft carrier, we were always able to add, or had a drop or two that could be filled.

And I agree no way to give priority to cubs, since the cubs wouldn't come alone.

That last point I find interesting though, since as my younger daughters are coming up through daisies and brownies, parents are very much discouraged form attending their "camps".  It's scouts and leaders only at a very young age.  Mind you it's cabin "camping" only at the GS reservation so a very controlled environment and they are not going it on their own.