blw2

3 minutes ago, MattR said:

Technology will not solve the "I don't really care" syndrome.

well said!

I agree, texts are harder to deal with unless it's something that will be dealt with right then and there....like reminders are ok

but

the problem with reminders is that they become noise.  Newsletters can be the same....

I remember reading something a long time ago, before all this electronic stuff, about posting stuff on bulletin boards.....those things would become so cluttered with things that were just always there, that when something new would go up it would just be lost in the noise and never noticed.

20 hours ago, Col. Flagg said:

@blw2 every once in a while this might be fun...but I'd rather be in my Big Agnes.

Yeah, no I get what you mean....

At first we started looking at the popup as an upgraded tent.... then as time passed it became a really low-end RV.

Now we have a basic class C motor home.  Interesting thing related to this thread, it was on one of those cub scout trips I mentioned, when we first started toying with the idea of getting an RV.  It rained all weekend.  I was out doing the seemingly hour long set-up process getting soaked, while I watched all the folks in TT's and motor homes, back into their spots, set the parking brake, and crack open a cold drink....to watch me.  I was also out there helping other folks set up their tents too, although there weren't many of those...

Anyway, RVing really is fun family time but it aint camping....although what is camping anyway?  I think it boils down to roughing it....compared to your normal.  RVing is not so unlike cabin stays.  Sometimes it can be approaching roughing it....well at least simplifying it.... but it gets the family together, breaks the routine, encourages travel to visit nature in places like state parks, sometimes like this past weekend where I hiked 6 miles on some really great trails.

....and on the other side of things, i just splurged and bought myself a new tent recently.... a Duplex from Zpacks.  Wow that thing is light!  Cant wait to carry it a few miles to use it!

I've seen the flaming necker thing done a few times in my son's early years with the pack.

Honestly, I think it's all adult driven non-sense.  Any of these ceremonies that I've seen away end up being a long drawn out over produced thing that bores the kids to tears.

Our pack always did AOL in conjunction with B&G AND a bridging ceremony....all together too much.

My 2 cents....AOL should be done as instant recognition at a den meeting at the time an INDIVIDUAL scout earns it....with follow-up MENTION at the next pack meeting.  Something simple and meaningful. That's all.

well I see that the OP has not chimed back in.....

It could be that they were talking about cub scouts and "family camping"

    ....er.... does that family camping also now apply to Boy Scouts too?

When my son and I were in the pack, the first few years before i got heavily involved, there was a rather large cadre of families with RV's.  Mostly travel trailers, a huge 5th wheel or two, and a few motor homes as I recall.  We had a pop-up tent trailer, the only one in the group.  I guess on an average of about twice a year the pack would reserve a bunch of sites in a state park, with one site designated at the pack site, where the pack's trailer would be parked, along with a huge trailer smoker grille.  Some folks tented to, and everyone would gather around the pack's huge coffee kettle and the grille. 

remembering I just shake my head.... it was good times...but at the same time there was so much in the way of clique groups and silly adult stuff....grill kings and the like.  The boys had fun though....little sisters too...running around through the woods and such, lord of the flies style.

4 hours ago, Col. Flagg said:

 

In our area most churches treat BSA units like we are any other group renting their facilities. Only the Catholic units are seen as an extension of the church's ministry.

that's exactly how I used to put it.  I'd make the case that we were an extension of their youth ministry.

I remember when i first thought of it that way... I was the CubMaster and basically also the CC and several committee member jobs too.... and I was having a discussion with the GS leader.  They were being very stand-offish about letting non-parishioners into the troop.  I made a strong case that i look at it as a ministry.  That our hope should be that we engage in families not currently coming to church.  That it would be a blessing if through our activities even just one family found a church community that they might even considering to join.

Sadly, i think it's the other way around from their perspective, at least to a degree.  The pastor likes and verbally supports scouting, and I believe he would echo the same sentiments that I did, but basically the general 'machine' of the church "staff" sort of treats us as you put it "renters"..... We always seemed to have a lower standing when compared to youth and other uses of the building.... and we certainly never had our own room.   I never really understood that... I've honestly thought it comes from the catholic tradition...."think the stereo typical nun in an old catholic school"....mean and strict.  It's just the way they are.  Like a drill sergeant.  Anyway, in our case the COR was never engaged so that may have been a factor.

https://www.troopwebhost.org/

I would not have done the treasurer job without it, period.

Even if the troop did not want to use it for the other tools, I would have insisted they keep it or find another treasurer.  

It's set up to log everything in for you.  Payments can be made through the site (seamlessly with paypal), it's a tool like quicken in a sense to balance your checkbooks and accounts.

It has lots of budgeting tools, but I recommend against a lot of that.  It's a layer of complexity that simply is not needed and will amount to busy work.  keep it simple.

It has great tools for sending out balance statements to scouts or parents, that sort of thing...tools for printing various reports for the monthly committee meeting, you can drill in to see reports from events (camping trips, fundraisers, etc.... to see the money...

parents and scouts can log in to see their individual situation

and I liked that it gives complete transparency.  Any committee member can be given permissions to either view or to edit the money stuff, so they can log in any time they want to see what I'm doing.  An online spreadsheet (such as google sheets) would do this too, but it more complicated and apt to 

and then the other things....troop emails, newsletters, calendar, etc....

we found the newsletter doesn't get read for the most part, folks don't really log in to sign up for events, stuff like that..... and personally I think a lot about it looks a bit dated and maybe "clunky", but it was still a good thing.

The guy that operates it was a troop treasurer and he has it set up well I think.

We used it with "scout accounts"...the idea is that every troop member has an account.  They put their own money in, and can choose to maintain a positive balance that can be used to pay things like camping charges or for dues...  It's their money sitting in the troop's bank account.  the site just breaks it out really nicely to show what their balance is.  It wasn't scout accounts in the sense that fundraising money from the troop goes to the scout personally like payment for doing the work.  thats' a whole sticky wicket that a lot of troops used to do, probably many still do, but should not be doing.  So if a scout owed money for an upcoming camping trip, I would charge their account.  It would show as a negative balance if they didn't have enough in to cover it.  worked pretty well overall.....

I have to wonder why an organization would actually be a CO if they didn't want to be....  this whole thing seems odd and smells fishy to me....

Not the original thread, just Funkychickin's situation, posts starting today....

Well I guess maybe.... you're saying they "just won't work with you"

on this one issue of non-profit status.

Well I might understand that.  But not working with you in general?  that would make me wonder why.

My old troop's CO is a church, Catholic, and is part of a larger diocese, which in turn falls under a larger Ecclesiastical province.  It's a HUGE organization and gets complicated really fast.

They of course have non-profit status, and from an accounting perspective their books I'm guessing rival an huge corporation.  In many ways they didn't really want to work with us either.  At the parish level, they were ok with our using the status to open a bank account....but honestly I don't think they they have a concept of actually owning the troop.  They want NOTHING to do with our money. From their perspective and understanding, we are either our own entity OR the BSA owns us.  that's kinda how it should run anyway, so running with it seems the logical choice.

Personally, I wouldn't worry so much about the non-profit thing.  So you can't use amazon smile..... So what?  So you have to pay higher rates if you use paypal....so what?  So you can't incentivize donating patrons with a tax write off....again. so what?   Non of these thing really amount to all that much in the big scheme of things.

agreed..... and I'd add tacky.  Put a little more thought into it if he's really worth that much money to the pack!

I've thought about this very thing a few years back...both from the context of what to get someone and also what i would like to have received when I stepped down.  Well in the end I received nothing, nor did the previous guys.  And that is ok.

I think most things such as plaques or certificates or collectibles are only really enjoyed by a few certain types of people.  To most folks they have no place to hang it, no need, and they become clutter.....so if that route I think smaller is often better.

On the lines of a plaque or collectible, I thought it might be nice to receive a small recreation of the pack flag, like index card sized, framed or mounted somehow, maybe with a  small tag perhaps listing dates of service...or written right on the flag.  I could hang it in my office.  Too big though & I would't have space for it and honestly I'd think it tacky.

A picture of the scouts, or a card that they made, etc........ well that really only is from the current pack.  You said he was long term.... that doesn't really touch on all those other scouts he remembers.  A memory book, well maybe if it were possible to get a collection of photos and documents through the years.  get cubs from years past that are now grown to write letters for the book.  But still, it's a dust collector.

A really nice pocket knife, engraved with dates of service.....well maybe.

Honestly, I think a nice tribute would be good enough.... maybe like a mini-Blue and Gold type thing.  Not a huge big deal, just some simple food or some cake, a slide show if you can get pictures from throughout his tenure.

our troop camped at both state and county park "group sites", of course the BSA camps, and occasionally in the woods behind the CO (church property)

When I was a scout back in the 1980's, I remember camping once in the woods behind the local state university in town.  I have no idea how we came to get permission for that....but a college or university might be a source for land??  Anyway, I remember that trip vividly, because during the night came a doozy of a winter storm, freezing rain.  We woke up to everything covered in a nice thick layer of clear ice.  None of us could get a fire going, we ate frozen hot dogs for breakfast.  Good times!

Anytime you have written rules it seems, you have the opportunity to play semantics.  

Personally, i think that with the exception of a purpose to practice and learn shelter building/tent pitching.... that cowboy camping is about the most pure.  I've never heard the term coyote camping before.  To me, cowboy camping is bedroll on the ground under the stars.  Bedroll could be almost anything....bag and pad, blanket, etc....just open air under the stars

And then the semantics.... some of those basic Appalachian trail type shelters aren't really so far off from that in my mind.... actually I'd think of it more like under a tarp.  Still very basic and not nearly so "indoor" as a tent.

they fit the water filter....and smart water bottles are much more durable that the average water bottle (Zepherhills, Deer park, Dasani, etc...)

I'm registered as a Counselor for that badge.  I'm an Instrument rated private pilot and a huge aviation geek.  Sadly, I've never counseled a scout on the badge.

re. number 1.... the scout first needs sign-off from his scout master (SM) to work on the badge.  then they have to find a registered Merit Badge Counselor (MBC).  No doubt some of your adults could fill that role, if they are not already registered to be an MBC, they need to contact council.  The MBC is the adult that the scout works through "the book" with, demonstrating, etc.. and the MBC would be the one to do the sign offs.  I'm not familiar with the CAP structure....is Deputy Commander of a Civil Air Patrol an adult position or a "youth leadership" position?

If you are 18 and have extensive knowledge and experience in the subject, then you can register as MBC.

https://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/34405.pdf

re. 2 & 3.

traditionally, the way a MB should work is this.... a scout either has a need to complete a required MB, or just has an interest in the subject.  That scout....or maybe a couple scout friends choose to do it together, would approach their SM for ok to work on it.  Then they would find a MBC registered for that badge.  The SM or other Troop adults can assist them in finding a MBC.  that MBC would work with them, answer questions, advise, steer them to resources, etc.... This may happen over a course of time, weeks or more even, self study, etc...

More commonly in practice though, they are offered as a class....where you would invite scouts as a large group....and things would be like sitting through a class at school.  I personally don't care for this model....

this may be of some help to you.

https://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/GuideforMeritBadgeCounselors/MBCounselorGuide.aspx

Side note..... you might consider approaching Cub Scout packs in your area too.  That could be a great source for membership for your unit as those young boys get older.  they don't have a badge, but there used to be a belt loop in the old program.  don't know if there is now....but I know that most packs are always looking for guest speakers at their pack meetings.  When I was Cubmaster, i approached the local CAP but never was able to pull it off.  The most I was able to do was arrange a Den trip to the local airport tower and meet with some folks from the local airport's pilot club.

totally agreed..... unless for some reason HE wanted to be with his new classmates and stay back.....

22 hours ago, LeCastor said:

 

As an aside, I also suggested that the Troop meetings take place outside during summer months (it's cold the rest of the time here ) and they Troop Committee thought I was nuts.  "Why should we sit out here when there are tables and chairs inside?"  Oh brother...

I'm reminded of a troop meeting we held out back..... we had an area in the woods behind the church where they would sometimes camp or occasionally work on skills.... this wasn't a camping night, just a troop meeting.... maybe building fires or teaching "new scouts" to set up tents or something....

Anyway, we on the committee had a need to do a few BOR's

It was about as near as perfect as I could imagine it done.... in the woods under some grand old oaks, away from earshot from the troop but close enough to see.... a few logs to sit on if one felt like it....until just before the BOR someone pulls a table a chairs out of the troop trailer.  You see, the CC and key MC's had a routine of sitting behind a table like a judge in a courtroom while the scout stands at attention out front.  I felt like an idiot sitting there....and in a nice way let it be known

14 minutes ago, Col. Flagg said:

My friends have a different story to tell. Their training is bad and no where near what we get (IOLS, WRFA, National Camping School, PTC, etc.). They have training, but from what I am told it is so basic that common sense covers it in two minutes.

kinda like IOLS or BALOO? ....ok, I might have said 10-20 minutes each, but still.....

Honestly, from my perspective BSA's training is not really a strong place to come from.

I can't really comment about Wilderness First Aid....other than the fact I tried for several years to get it but it was so rarely offered....

& I have no idea about national camping school, PTC, or your etc....

I sat through several very similar meetings and conversations in my tenure as a scouter.

It was fun sometimes to point out that my son just didn't want them.  that wasn't really why he enjoyed scouting.... (and this was before he lost interest)

Our troop did run some MB meetings but as I recall not a lot.  Those they did do that I can remember were done outside of the regular meeting time..... "let's meet an hour before the troop meeting"  Sometimes they would do this over a several week span to get through it all.  As far as I could tell it was always adult suggested/offered....as in, "several of you guys need Emergency Preparedness.  I'll teach a class starting next week."....never a group of boys getting together saying, "hey I'd like to work on ___, Mr. BLW2 would you be willing to counsel us?"  In fact in my time with the troop, I was registered (still am) as counselor for a whole passel of badges....some of which, such as SCUBA or Aviation, it seems would be difficult to find....others such as "Pulp and Paper"  I'd be shocked if anyone was interested in....never not once have I been asked to do one.

19 hours ago, Stosh said:

I knew a guy who drove a car 45,000 miles and just kept adding more and more oil as needed.  He sold it in running condition.  Be thankful you didn't buy it.

Hey, I wonder if that was my dad..... i think he's been known to do such things.... even though he truely is an ACE jack of all trades shadetree mechanic.... when he wants to be

it comes to mind lots of discussion some time ago about doing things "under the guise" of scouting.

so for example.... if a kid goes out and hikes the Appalachian trail this summer, he wouldn't qualify for the 2,000 mile patch (or whatever the BSA's highest is) unless he does it as an organized scout activity....with his patrol for example.....  or maybe teh better example might be count it twoards his Backpacking MB unless he was already previously working with said MB counselor....

So if that concept is even edging close to reality.... how then can a kid that two years ago went for his YMCA lifeguard (or whatever) now recpricate taht over toe the BSA swimming merit badge....

....or a Girl that earned Gold long before the idea of becoming a BOY scout was even a twinkle in her eye, use those signoffs towards anything BSA....

Neuman?

I participate on other forums.....and some which seem to be very controlled in staying "on topic" really seem more like a bunch of fragmented thoughts....like a dictionary.  Very short threads, no flow.

4 minutes ago, Stosh said:

As an alternative, there should be some place on the forum to just "hang out" and talk about whatever might be of interest to others that day.  If one wishes to have a topic they wish the members to stay with, they have that option of just posting in that category on the forum.  

I started this thread to just allow the off-hand comments to go unchecked to see where they lead.  This also offers the opportunity to see if there are other categories of interest that aren't listed in the regular threads.

Like: last night we hosted one new Webelos boy in our troop.  He had a great time making rope and then learning new knots with it.  The PL was being punished because his grades were dropping in school and couldn't attend.  The other boys picked up the slack and did a nice job while my ASM and I visited with the parent.  So, how many potential threads could be had with that.  Recruiting, scouts being punished by keeping them out of the program, doing crafty scoutwork, rope making, knot tying, whipping and fusing, other boys picking up the slack and leading the program for the evening, teaching skills development for older scouts.  The boys made the potential new member a 2 color para-cord knot combo to practice his knots, and they finished out the evening playing the game Duck Wars, of which the Webelos, being the smallest won every time.

I dunno, I just think it's a good place to just jaw-jack about whatever is on your mind.

Yes, it is still very important to start one's own topic when it is appropriate to do so.

If the mods want to move this to a different category, they may do so while maintaining the off-thread possibilities.  I know there are some on the forum that avoid the I&P section for good reasons, but It is a bit less moderated than the rest.  I like the place where it is because as long as everyone stays on or off topic and maintains a scout-like attitude, it has the potential of finding new areas that if some interest is shown can be made into a regular thread in the appropriate category.

excellent post Stosh.

which takes me to categories.....

I for one pay absolutely zero attention to category, except when I post a new thread.  Otherwise..... I'm looking at new posts since my last visit....all of them....with equal interest.  I can't imagine logging in here to check to see if there are any new posts in let's say the politics one..... or the next time in the advancement one....

but hijacking is really a different thing.

If I ask a very specific question and then you piggyback on top interrupting that very specific thing with a distracting unrelated thing....then yeah, that seems kinda rude....

but if it's a topic discussing a topic....and that discussion morphs over time to a very related side note..... which then morphs into something not really all that related....so what? 

because sometimes it breaks the flow of conversation.  It's not like each thread is a stand alone entity like a patent application, that is to be judged and dissected....and not confused by other things

interesting question.... I never knew there was such a policy.  I would have guessed that they would come in at ground zero.....and breeze through the stuff they already know.

this sort of thing is why I always used to roll my eyes (with them closed) just a bit when I'd hear scouters tout that they were scouts in a way of stating qualification....or when others such as CC's would pick folks to be SM just because they were eagles....or they were scouts as a kid..... as if that automatically makes them qualified.