blade1158

FB, What is your opinion of the Roman Catholic Church based on? (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

jkhny, for initially claiming not to be a rabble rouser you certainly are doing a good job. The innitial question is valid, but the subsequent ravings are out of place. While I am certainly not one of Bob White's biggest fans, your attack on him for his first post of this thread was totally unwarranted. He gave accurate information, not a blind defence of all things BSA as you alleg. I'm sorry you aren't happy with your SE, maybe he's doesn't do his job well, but don't make generalizations about all SE's and all professionals. My SE is quite good as are most of the professionals cu

Eammon, JSP isn't new. It stands for Jamboree Shoulder Patch, a variation from CSP, Council Shoulder Patch. It's one of those geeky patch trader terms. Just thought you might like to know.

Eammon, you put it far more diplomatically than I was going to. Well done and spot on.

"Scouting becomes a business with the inevitable emphasis on finances and the bottom line." I'm not here to defend all professionals because I, too, have known my share of truly wretched professional scouters, but I have also been associated with my share of truly fine, dedicated professionals who do care about the boys and adults in the program. I currently have the pleasure of knowing and working closely with two of the finest professional scouters I've ever known, one our DE and the other our council program director and camp director. Both were scouts as boys, one an Eagle, one h

Lodge chief is not a council position, it is a lodge position. It does not require the removal of troop numbers and the wearing of silver loops. Only those whose primary registration is at the district or council level wear the silver loops. If one's primary registration is on the troop level, one wears the red loops even if serving on a district committee. I am registered as an assistant scoutmaster but also serve on the council camping committee and am associate lodge advisor, I wear the red loops. More to the point of the thread, I'd love to see an official lodge chief position patch.

Lodge chief is not a council position, it is a lodge position. It does not require the removal of troop numbers and the wearing of silver loops. Only those whose primary registration is at the district or council level wear the silver loops. If one's primary registration is on the troop level, one wears the red loops even if serving on a district committee. I am registered as an assistant scoutmaster but also serve on the council camping committee and am associate lodge advisor, I wear the red loops. More to the point of the thread, I'd love to see an official lodge chief position patch.

BadenP, I hate to pick nits, but I have to question Venture patrol members wearing green loops. A Venture patrol is part of a Boy Scout troop, not an extension of a Venture Crew, thus red loops would be proper. Perhaps the name "Venture patrol" is a poor choice and needs to be changed if confusion is being created. I know Varsity Scouts wear the blaze loops, but Varsity scouting is a part of the Boy Scout program, not a separate program as is Venturing. If you have a source for this, please cite it, I'm always willing to learn.

Proud Eagle is correct, there are two emblems available from the Catholic Church, the Bronze Pelican and the St. George. The Bronze Pelican is analagous to the District Award of Merit and the St. George analagous to the Silver Beaver. However, neither are "earnable", both are awarded on merit, similar to the aforementioned BSA recognitions. I am in agreement with Proud Eagle that more needs to be done to encourage youth to earn the emblem of their faith. I am a Catholic in a unit sponsored by a Catholic church and have taken religious emblem councelor training. At the training it was stre

"As soon as the election is completed, the unit leader may or may not choose to announce to the entire unit the names of members who have been elected." Guide for Officers and Advisers, p. 23 The Guide for Officers and Advisers is silent on the matter of telling the troop rep the results of the election, although the phrase "announce to the entire unit" could be interpreted as the whole unit knows or none of them know. Announcement of results seems to be a function of local lodge tradition, though the Guide gives this authority to the unit leader. In my lodge, a candidate doesn'

VAordeal, two things. First, your troop does not have the authority to restrict any scout under the age of 21 from voting in an Order of the Arrow election. Second, elections are to be held only once per year, not twice.

"In Boy Scout troops and Varsity Scout teams, every active member of the of the unit under age 21 at the time of election is eligible to vote." page 22, Guide for Officers and Advisers

As for new scouts voting, the election team should tell the troop at the time of the election that if a scout believes he doesn't know his fellow scouts well enough to cast a properly informed ballot, he can abstain. Any abstentions do not count in the vote total when calculating the number of votes a scout must receive to be elected. It's up to each scout whether he wants to vote or not. It all depends on whether the election team explains things well or not.

As for new scouts voting, the election team should tell the troop at the time of the election that if a scout believes he doesn't know his fellow scouts well enough to cast a properly informed ballot, he can abstain. Any abstentions do not count in the vote total when calculating the number of votes a scout must receive to be elected. It's up to each scout whether he wants to vote or not. It all depends on whether the election team explains things well or not.

acco40 it sounds like the problem is how your lodge runs elections, call outs and ordeals, not with the system itself. If candidates are elected in January or February and not called out until June thus having only one shot at the ordeal, that is a bit unreasonable. Maybe the leadership of the lodge needs to reevaluate how they implement the induction process so that it is more equitable. My lodge, while far from perfect, does a pretty good job of elections, call outs and ordeals. Elections are held from late April through early June. Call outs and ordeals are held each week at summer c

A scout or scouter is a candidate after election. Any difficulties in the time between the election, the call out and the ordeal is the fault of the lodge, not the system. Most lodges hold multiple ordeals every year. In my lodge our main ordeal is held at summer camp. We hold ordeals in the spring and fall for those who don't go through the ordeal at camp.

"Candidate status. After election, Boy Scouts, Varsity Scouts or adults remain candidates until completion of the Ordeal and Ordeal ceremony. If this period of candidacy exceeds one year, the candidate's name will be dropped. To become candidates again, they must be reelected. The executive committee of the lodge may extend the one year limit between election and induction if a candidate is ill or there are other unusual circumstances." page 23, Guide for Officers and Advisers, 2004

While I post infrequently, I read this forum almost every day. The moderators are doing a fine job. When one of our moderators lock a thread it is not censorship. Censorship is something that a government practices. We can say anything we like, but if the moderators of this privately owned site don't want to let us post it here, they are under no obligation to let us. The owner and moderators can govern the contents of this site as they see fit. If a poster doesn't like these decisions, he is free to start his own site.

Order of the Arrow program, hmmm, let's see. Lodge conclaves, section conclaves, leadership possibilities from the chapter to the national level, important roles at summer camp (at least in my lodge), ceremony teams, multiple lodge and chapter committees, camp promotions, training of all kinds, National Order of the Arrow Conference, National Leadership Seminar, special high adventure opporunities at Philmont and the other high adventure bases, Indian Summer, OA Service Corps at national jamborees, fellowship with other Arrowmen, a myriad of service opportunities. Wow, there really

dan, if you are not satisfied with your lodge's program stop whining and do something to change it. That's what I'm doing. I returned to Scouting and the Order a little over 2 years ago after an absence of a decade and a half and wasn't all that pleased at what I saw at my first conclave back. It certainly didn't resemble the conclaves I remembered from my youth. So, when I was offered the position of associate lodge advisor last year, I jumped at the chance to help rejuvenate and improve our lodge. And, through the efforts of alot of good advisors and youth leaders we've taken several

I applied for staff last year and waited a little over 3 months to get letter of appointment. I wast sent a post card from the national office when they received my application. Another gentleman from my troop had to resubmit his application because it was lost somewhere. And this guy's been on staff for the last 6 jamborees.

BW, it's quite easy to conclude that the Order has been diluted. It is now easier to be elected, more scouts are being elected who before would not have been. Not all that hard to understand. It's very similar to expansion in professional sports. The fewer teams, the fewer players, the better the players have to be to earn a spot on a team's roster. As more teams are added, more players are needed to fill all the rosters, players that before weren't skilled enough to make the league are now playing. Thus, dilution of the league has occured.

We hold a 3 drawings at the end of each of our meetings, the prizes are patches, mugs, pins or whatever other Scout related goodies we have about. Every scout in attendance writes his name on a slip of paper and puts in into the can. At the meeting close three names are drawn out. The catch is the person whose name is drawn must be in full uniform with his fellow scouts conducting the inspection. The boys really enjoy the drawing and it helps them remember to wear all their uniform parts. As for the rank and merit badges, as scoutldr pointed out, these are collectible. Whatever you do wit

ps56k and Proud Eagle, both of you make points that I agree with. I do believe that the Order has been diluted. I was inducted in 1979 as a 12 year old scout and was active for the next 10 years or so. During those years, as opposed to now, we had a greater number of active arrowmen in my lodge to whom membership in the Order actually meant something. Under the previous election quota system it was harder to be elected, the Order was more exclusive and therefore had at least some degree of meaning built in. I know Scouters who never were elected as scouts, they didn't become members of

The requirements for a scout to be on the ballot haven't changed, it's the number per troop that's been changed. The previous system was based on troop size, the larger the troop, the more scouts could be elected. I'm afraid I don't recall the ratios exactly, but, for example, if the troop had 15 or fewer members, only one scout could be elected, no matter how many were eligible. Now, all an eligible scout has to do is get 50% of the votes cast. So, yes, 100% of the scouts on the ballot can be elected. I don't know when this change went into effect.