TAHAWK

Then there is (was?) Red Rover.   😱

1 hour ago, CynicalScouter said:

BSA National is simply saying that they will attempt to get Councils to "voluntarily" pay in.

 

I had a separate question.  I believe it has been answered.

2 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

I read the updated Chapter 11 statement.  This appears to be National BSA's offer.  My guess is that they think they can get at least $300M from local councils based on internal discussions; however, they don't have or are not ready to share the details yet.  Eventually, you'll probably see a council by council summary including their assets, camps, etc. that make up the $300M+.

The insurance companies are treated separately; however, there are 40+ pages that outline each insurance policy by council by date range.  I found it odd that several policies have council listed as unknown (N/A).  Essentially, the trust can sue the insurance companies and collect what they can as can our non sex abuse claimants.

The liability of the insurance companies arises out of the contracts of insurance.  They have no liability in tort.

The "standards" are in writing and are part of the Franchise contrcat.  "At will" means for a good reason or no reason at all.   Most franchisors have "standrads" provisions in thier franchise contracts.   

Who is making the decison to offer the above-described offer, BSA, the insurance companies, or both?

Has it been determined that BSA can make an offer on behalf of local councils?

11 minutes ago, mrjohns2 said:

It is my understanding that is true for any franchise system. McDonalds can come and shut you down at will. 

What he basis of that understanding?  McD's typically leases the land and building to the franchisee for a term of  twenty years. 

44 minutes ago, David CO said:

 Sure.  Some people might feel that my entire football program was abusive.  Others might say it was abusive to make my gym students take group showers.  But that's not my point either.  I'm talking about actual abuse.

ON Friday evenings, the Summer Camp "week" at Camp Clendenning ened with a lengthy campfire program.  Afterwards, we returned to Camsite 8  for our own brief campfire.  Suddenly, two younder Scouts not in pout troop ran into our campsite.  One was obviously frightened.  The owther was trembling and had wet himself.   You could hear his teeth rattling from ffiteen feet away.  His eyes weer rolling and he was hyperventilating.  "What's wrong?"  "Someone tried to kill us!"

In a couple of minutes, a diminutive adult and two older Scouts appeared into the light of our campfire from the same direction as the first two Scouts - the path to the most remote campsite, much further back in the woods of this 2400 acre camp.  They were obviously amused, and indictaed that the two "cowards" were members of their troop.

The adult, the Scoutmaster, expalined that Troop 161 had a "tradition."  All week, those in the know regaledfirst-time summer campers with blood-chilling tails of the "Green Man," a recluse who kidnapped and murdered Scouts if they did not meet his expectations as to keeping the camp clean and not promiscuously cutting foliage.  They weer warned that the camp staff would deny knowledge of the Green Man lest it casue Scouts not to come to camp.   Then, the new Scotus were "ditched" after the Friday night campfire, and left to find their way alone back through the tunnels of vegitation to their camp, preferably without a flashlight.  Those "in the know" hurried to camp and donned coustumes to look like the notional  "Green man."  Then they ambushed the new Scouts  to surprise and terrorize - jumping out at them with loud yells in the most densely foilaged, part of the lonely, dark  path to their site.  This, I was told, made "men" out of the 10-11 year-olds.  

One of the boys, it developed, was under a psychiatrists' care for severe anxiety.  The SM and two older boys laughed loudly over his wet trousers, and they pointed at him.  "Look, he peed himself!!!"  

One of my Scouts was a very large, muscular specimen, Juan.  When he growled and started for the SM, I grabbed him by the back of his belt.  He dragged my 225 pounds several feet until the SM realized that his little "Joke" was about to receive a physically negative review frmo a 235 pound 17 year old.   At that point, he and his adolecent co-conspirators ran away.  

After I escorted the two Scouts to the Camp headquarters, we had a good discussion about what we had just witnessed.

Both sets of parent promptly took thier sons out of Scouting.  They did not "go to the law."

The SM was descommissioned - permanently.  The Troop Coommiteee was replaced by the "Charter Partner, a church.  The new SM and Committee were told in no uncertain terms that the "tradition" was ended - permanantly.

Actual abuse.

3 hours ago, KublaiKen said:

It is probably more accurate to say one doesn't know OF any Scouters who abused kids or OF any Scouts who were abused.

It is absoutely  accurate to say that I do not know how bad is was - or is, for that matter.  That statement is based on the assumption that some abuse took place, since there have been confessions and convictions.   I could have said that I know of  several Scouters who abused Scouts, if not sexually, but that was not my point.

Opinion: We don't know exactly how bad it was because allegations are not established facts  because not all victims may have come forward, in part to to their being deceased, ,but keeping known incidents secret was dishonest - not trustworthy -  and deprived parents of information they could have used to safeguard their children.  That secrecy was about money, not less so that Nissan hiding accident statistics and Volkswagen scamming pollution testing equipment.   

Were you a "Lion"?    I recall the band  British  Grenadier uniforms.  Very sharp!  Aftr their amazing performance, our band marched on the field to:

This afternoon, I was given the chance to agree within 48 hours to have Shot 1 in the murder capital of Ohio or wait until April.  i decided to have the shot.  

Rearing a child so that he or she has no concept of consequences for conduct does no one a favor.  

Wife got Moderna 1 last week.  No worse than flue shot in October.  Seems like there is a great range of reactions.

No EDIT function.

OA is cursed by the "One and done" pattern of behavior.  Many - really most - who pass the Ordeal, entitling them to wear tha OA Sash, are never seen again at any OA funtion, much less OA service project.

 Equally, many Wood Badgers think they have achieved the very pinacle of Scpouting competence, and are never seen at any training thereafter.  Indeed many, having rreached the "mountain top," drop out of Scouting.

But it' a volunteer organization.  The average Scoutmaster has tenure under a year.  

I have found that there is always more to learn, and especially from those taking training, who bring their life-time of experience and unique insights and are quite willing to share is given a chance.

You have had the experiences that yu have had.  All I can ask is that you not cast such a wide net of obloquy with your "they."  

No edit function.

"That said, I recognize not all Wood Badge people act like this. But they certainly embrace the cult of critters and talking amongst themselves and acting like there a club-within-a-club and if you are not part of the "club" then...oh well."

Yes, "Oh well."  Personally, I am Schizophrenic, critter-wise, being a bear, owl, beaver, Eagle.  And it is a "club within a club" - a club that aims tohave every Scouter as a member.

A "cult" may bean something other than what it often means, so you get a pass on that shot at every Wood Badger who ever was, good, bad , or indifferent.

There are certainly  those that reduce all of Scouting to Wood Badge. just as there are those who are very inpressd with themselves because they got thier "beads."   If that is who you mean by "they," well and good.  Otherwise,  judging an entire group of tens of thousands to have the same set of characteristics that you dislike has a name, and its not firendly, courteous, or kind.  

https://i.imgur.com/pxKQTGo.png

No EDIT feature available.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/pxKQTGo.png[/img]

"This is an official uniform shirt option for Scouts BSA. It is designed to stay polished looking and comfortable for every adventure! This uniform shirt features the new BSA logo above the front right chest pocket."

SCOURCE: SCOUTSHOP.ORG

if you prefer conventional button treatment, it is available in six other distinct optional shirts with the BSA brand, five of which are called "uniform."

31 minutes ago, John-in-KC said:

Bemidji Woolen Mills still has a wool forest green jacket. That’d be my choice. 

The Scout Shop seems to only have an "imported" red jac-shirt.  Do you have a link for a green one?

https://www.scoutshop.org/washable-wool-jac-shirt-612783.html

On 1/26/2021 at 3:08 PM, CynicalScouter said:

No, either way their pensions are covered.

BSA liquidates: Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation steps in, gathers up whatever money is needed to fund the pensions, and the plaintiffs and their attorneys fight for scraps.

BSA reorganizes: The pensions remain insured by Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation. Plaintiffs try to figure out how much of BSA they can carve out without outright killing it.

"Benefits PBGC Does Not Guarantee

• Health and welfare benefits
• Vacation pay
• Severance benefits
• Lump-sum death benefits for a death that occurs after the date the plan ended
• Disability benefits for a disability that occurs after the plan’s termination date (or the date your employer’s bankruptcy proceeding began, if applicable)

Legal Limits on PBGC's Guarantees

• Generally, PBGC does not guarantee any monthly pension amount that is greater than the monthly benefit your plan would have provided if you had retired at your normal retirement age.
• The maximum amount that PBGC guarantees is set each year under provisions of ERISA. For more information, see: Maximum monthly guarantee tables
• Higher limits may apply for people who met their plan’s requirements for a disability pension (whether they are receiving a disability pension or a non-disability pension) before the plan’s termination date. For more information, see “Guarantees for disabled participants.”
• PBGC may not fully guarantee your benefits if your plan was created or amended to increase benefits within five years before its termination date.
• If the plan terminated while your employer was in a bankruptcy proceeding that began on or after September 16, 2006, guarantees are determined as of the date your employer’s bankruptcy proceeding began.

The guarantee applies only to benefits earned before the plan terminates; however, if the plan terminates while your employer is in bankruptcy, the guarantee may be limited to benefits earned before the bankruptcy. 

PBGC's maximum benefit guarantee is set each year under provisions of ERISA. The maximum guarantee applicable to a plan is fixed as of that plan's termination date except for cases where termination occurs during a plan sponsor's bankruptcy, in which case the maximum guarantee may be fixed as of the date the sponsor entered bankruptcy. An earlier date also may apply to certain airline industry plans.

A: PBGC’s fiscal year 2020 annual report shows a financial deficit in its Multiemployer Program net position of $63.7 billion. PBGC’s Single-Employer Program shows a positive net position of $15.5 billion.
   

SOURCE: https://www.pbgc.gov/wr/benefits/guaranteed-benefits

"Waterproof" seams are almost as important as the rest of a garment being "waterproof" vs "water repellant" - both governmnet standards.

While some of the National advancement folk care about merit Badge mills, the most they could get a couple years ago was the "limited"  7.0.4.7 Limited Recourse for Unearned Merit Badges, Guide to Advancement, at pp 51-52. 

https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/33088.pdf

27 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

No.

It means that in the event of liquidation, the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation (the federal agency responsible for insuring pension plans) goes to the top of the list of creditors and will be given/assigned sufficient money to fund the pensions of current and former BSA staff.

Whatever is left gets picked over by plaintiff's counsel.

So those concerned about their pensions might favor liquidation?

"properly executed Scouting cohorts at council camps may be an exception"  ???

One  issue was candidates calling me without anyone else on the line  or emailing me withouit copying anyone else - both contrary to YP procedures.