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Posts posted by TAHAWK

  1. When Scouts are Eaglling at 5-7 times the rate in the Golden Age, there are questions that need asking.  Really that much smarter and dedicated and/or that much more time to devote to Scouting, or ........?

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  2. 22 minutes ago, David CO said:

    I'm not sure that national cares if councils are liquidated.  It's a simple process to form a new council.  


    Troop 43, in which I was a Scout, was locted in Santa Ana, California.  Its founding predated the formation of the local council by twelve years.  A perviously formed council, started eight years after the troop was founded, disappeared in less than a year.  Of course, this was the wilderness of Orange County, California.  It only took twenty-five months for BSA to reach Cleveland, Ohio.  At times, even the simplest task is dificult and time-consuming..

  3. 10 hours ago, David CO said:

    Yeah, but Satan has all the best lawyers.

    In the most famous case against Satan, he had no lawyer of record.  The case was dismissed by the District Court on its own motion for lack of personal jurisdiction over Satan because the record showed no service of process on Satan or the other defendants, his "Staff."    United States ex rel. Gerald Mayo v. Satan and His Staff, 54 F.R.D. 282 (W.D.Pa. 1971).

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  4. 1 hour ago, David CO said:

    That's where scouting went wrong.  Originally, the idea was that they would all be from the same CO.  They would already know each other.  They would have an established group identity and sense of common purpose.  They wouldn't be totally unrelated people.

    Somewhere along the line BSA got away from that.  

    Originally a group of neighborhood kids were to form a patrol and go camping without adult supervision.  There are liability issue with a sponsoring institution allowing THAT to happen, even if the bureaucracy allowed it.  If two adults are always present, you may still be sued.  God has been sued, as has Satan.  But I would be quite willing to accept that risk.  But the way things are going, I wonder if there will be an opportuntiy to do so, and I have to ask myself if I want to do it under the direction of BSA, given its performance - including its performance to date.

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  5. "You can’t earn this badge any longer, but from 1911 to 1912, Scouts could earn the Master-at-Arms Badge by “attaining proficiency in two of the following subjects:”

    • Single-Stick
    • Quarter-Staff
    • Fencing
    • Boxing
    • Ju-Jitsu
    • Gymnastics
    • Wrestling

    According to MeritBadge.org, The Master-at-Arms badge was one of the original 14 “Badges of Merit” issued by the Boy Scouts of America in 1910 in the temporary “Original edition” of the BSA Handbook.

    It was not included in the 1911 edition of the Boy Scout handbook."

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  6. Venturing started out well here in NE Ohio and then, over the years, mostly disappeared.  The five closest crews, with which I helped as asked, all closed as of two years ago.  But, then, between finances and management, this has been a weak area.  All the five defunct crews mentioned are shown as active today oblue n the Council website, but the closest has not met in six years.  Nothing has been posted on their website since 2011.

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  7. A Scots troop on the way to a BSa  jamboree stopped by our service center to visit our museum.  One of them spotted the "fawn's foot" on the but of the axe on the stature of The ideal Scout.  Do you see what he noticed?




    Picture does not seem to show.


  8. If the jury knows the policy limit, there would be a mistrial in Ohio.  Some judges declare a mistrial if the word "Insurnace" is mentioned by the plaintiff's side.   Often, defense council secure an order prohibiting mention of insurance if plaintiff's counsel is a known bad actor. 


    I didn;t have to worry about that issue much  when I was defending multi-billion-dollar corporations.  Juries assume that they have endless wealth, and my client for the last twenty-seven years was self-insured in any case.  But one plaintiff's counsel mentioned insurance anyway (in a death case), and the judge declared a mistrial sua sponte.  

  9. We watch, at most, five hours a week of TV.  No sports.  No "[un]reality TV, especially no TV prostitution.  A pronounced political point-of-view that assumes that no rational fair-minded person could doubt that view in any detail.  No journalism, just opinion and echo chambers repeating what someone said with no effort at verification or objective context.  Libraries closing was the worse aspect of the Civid-19 Winter for us. 

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  10. I think you are correct de facto, although the uniforced rule states:


    Policy on Scout Participation in Political Events

    Uniformed unit members and leaders may participate in flag ceremonies at political events and may lead the Pledge of Allegiance; however, they should retire after the ceremony and not remain on the speakers’ platform or in a conspicuous location where attendees or viewers could construe their presence as an endorsement or symbol of support. In addition, photos of candidates or Scouts in uniform or with BSA marks and logos are not allowed in political campaign materials of any kind.

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  11. So which political issues is it OK to support as a unit function?  In the last four years, Scout troops have marched for gay rights and , open borders.  Scouting in Uniform have attended Trump rallies.  BSA officially and expressly endorsed Black Lives Matter.  Rules not enforced are not rules.

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  12. 2 hours ago, ThenNow said:

    Anonymity in the press is allowed and not an impotent option. If you perceive it a dead horse, no use for you to whip it regardless your concern for your boys. I get that. I realize you're convinced of the collapse.

    It may even be important,.

  13. 2 hours ago, fred8033 said:

    Isn't this analogous to a franchise that buys goods from the parent corporation?  It's 100% separate for legal, tax and execution.  But if the franchise fails, it often has to return relevant assets to the franchising corporation.  In this case, the council promises to "vest" (... secure in possession ... ).  that does not necessarily mean "ownership" as much as ability to transfer to another agency to execute the purpose of the previous council.   .... 

    I'd be curious if vested, legally means the same as "owns".   ... I'd also be interested if the "charter" agreement is binding between national and council.  It seems more like a friendly statement of agreement and not a legal contract.  

    A contract is an "agreement" with certain chacteristics, depending on aplicable state law.   Most parties to such contarcts assume all will go as agreed, and the parties will ride off into the sunset with mutual satisfaction the order of the day.   That's why a cynical lawyer may have value; he may expressly provide for what happens if disagreement and conflict between the parties to the contract appear in the path of events..

  14. 3 hours ago, ThenNow said:

    Nah. I'm sure you're not alone. The explosion of the case numbers in particular, plus the fact that CHILD USA and these legislators HATE the use of bankruptcy to dodge child sexual abuse liability is the combined driver. Magnitude, whether legitimate or not, have elevated the case to a Exhibit #1 for abuse liability avoidance abuse. Doubly abusive, if you will.

    I thick he asked about statute-of-limitations corruption, not bankruptcy.

  15. LIMA — The national Boy Scouts of America might be facing tough financial decisions in the coming weeks. That doesn’t mean the local organization, the Black Swamp Area Council, is in trouble, though.

    Sherri Garner Brumbaugh, council president for the Black Swamp Area Council, and Marc Kogan, scout executive, sent a letter out Friday afternoon to ease donors’ concerns about the strength of the local scouting organization.

    “Charitable support of the Black Swamp Area Council stays local,” according to the letter. “All assets of the Black Swamp Area Council, including past and future charitable contributions, unit accounts, endowment funds, and properties, are independently held and protected. Dollars given locally in support of Scouting stay right here in the Black Swamp Area Council.”

    On Wednesday, the national organization acknowledged it would explore “all options,” including possible bankruptcy protection, to stay afloat while facing sexual abuse lawsuits and dwindling membership at the national level.

    Scouting’s organization protects the local assets from the national organization. The Black Swamp Area Council is its own 501(c)(3) nonprofit, which owns Camp Lakota, Camp Berry and Findlay Service Center. The Lima Service Center is leased from the Lima Fraternal Order of Police.

    The local organization doesn’t receive money from the national organization, according to the letter.

    “The Black Swamp Area Council receives no funding from the National Council, BSA; in fact, we pay fees to National Council, BSA as a part of our charter agreement for specific services,” according to the letter. “We receive value backfrom the National Council, BSA, but we operate as a financially independent not-for-profit organization.”
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  16. Speaking of LCs.  When I got back in Scouting in 1981, I joined Greater Cleveland Council.  That council was surrounded by Great Trail Council, Firelands Area Council, Northeast Ohio Council, and Warren Council.  Only the first of these entities exists today.  

    Twenty-seven years ago,  Warren Council, down to two employees, merged with Northeast Ohio Council and the bankrupt Mahoning Valley Council (Youngstown after the steel industry collapse).   Think in terms of Seras and Kmart merging.  The merged council was named "Western Reserve Council."

    Twenty-six years ago, Firelands Council merged with two other Councils to become Heart of Ohio Council.

    In 2017, Western Reserve Council, down to two employees, was disolved.  What had once been NorthEast Ohio Council and most of what had been Warren Council went to Greater Cleveland Council.

    The new aggregation was named "Lake Erie Council."   I don't know if thiswas a  merger of dditional territory into ane xisting entity  or in every sense the creation of a new entity. Mere volunteers are not privy to such information.  Decisions surrounding the merger were made by a committee formed proportionately of Scouters from Greater Cleveland Council, from the portion of Heart of Ohio joining with Cleveland, and from the portion of Western Reserve Council joining with Cleveland.  

    At the same time (2017), Heart of Ohio Council dissolved.  What had mostly been the dissolved Firelands Council, the northern part of Heart of Ohio Council, became part of the council to be named Lake Erie Council.  The remainder to the south of what had been Heart of Ohio's territory became part of Buckeye Council.  


    What had been the disolved MAhoning Valley COuncil and the southern edge of what had been Western Reserve Council becasme part of "Great Trail Council."  In that case, the decisions weem to be made solely by Great Trails Council people, or so it was said by those feeling imposed upon.

    I have no knowledge of the terms of the various mergers and dissolutions. Were liabilities assumed, and, if so, what liabilities?  

    Lake Erie Council ended up with two camps that were not Greater Cleveland Camps. 


    One, has a very large trust fund with a strong reversionary clause and living family members to keep an eye on compliance. 

    The other camp, Camp Stigwandish, was sold last Spring for the announced reason that the expense of  bringing the camp up to BSA standards (It had been starved of financing for over twenty years,.)  was not "practical" given the steadily declining revenue and declining membership of Lake Erie Council.  The Ohio EPA had taken enforcement action aginst that camp due to a failed septic system, leading to termination of its summer camp program.   It is located ten miles from the nearest point on the shore of Lake Erie, an area of severe economic depression because most of the economy depended on the Mahoining Valley steel industry which went bottom-up almost fifty yeasrs ago.  Think boarded up Wlamerts and mcDonalds. Beautiful rolling ground for a camp.  Little level ground.  Three ponds.  Alos, it is minutes away fro the main camp, Beaumont Scout Reservation.

    I also do not know what control, if any, BSA or any council has over settlement.  In normal business "general liability policies," the insured has no control over settlement.  The insurance company does have a duty not to unreasonably expose the insured to liability in excess of coverage limits by refusing to make a "reasonable" settlement offer within policy limits.  I donlt know what the policy limits are in this case.


    Lawyers expressing the goal of litigation as destruction of the defendant(s) would seems to have conflict of interest issues with their clients, unless they have been uniformly instructed by the clients that destruction of the defendant(s), not monetary payment, is their goal. 


    This litigation is a basket of snakes. 

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