sst3rd

JosephMD,

    Good points all. Our summer camp has a staff position that deals with all camp OA stuff. It's usually an older scout in high school or moving on to college. There's an adult staff position that advises him. Both of these people last year had power trips. Their way or the highway with complete control. But no chapter ceremony teams wanted to work under those conditions, so nobody volunteered. Begrudgingly, 5 chapter teams gave it a go. We were the first up, and evidently did a great job. The others, not so much. As I mentioned before, all members of the lodge ceremony team were no shows. I know it's a long way off, but none of the chapters are interested this year either, and since the lodge wants individuals from chapter ceremony teams, well good luck with that.

Krampus,

 Our district has quite a few units that have their own ceremony teams for their own call-outs, crossovers, and AOL ceremonies. Our chapter keeps its team ready for those troops and packs that aren't so fortunate.

.

sst3rd

For years, our lodge has had a difficult time staffing Call-Out ceremony teams for our summer camp Friday night closing campfires. Summer camp staff would appoint someone to head up the ceremony using old half baked ceremony outfits, practice a short ceremony, and then perform a really lousy Call-Out in front of the whole camp. Last year,our lodge tried to bring back an old tradition of having each chapter ceremony team perform a Call-Out each Friday night at summer camp. We weren't asked. We were told. And very short notice was given. The lodge wanted us to use their ceremony and outfits, but all they had were shirts. As current chapter ceremony committee advisor, I advised our team to stay away from this "invitation", but was told by our chapter advisor to please give it a go. I had our chapter ceremony chief to pick a Friday to perform, set up practices, and recruit. They chose the first week of summer camp to perform. They did a great job, and I was extremely proud of their efforts and told them so (as I was their that Friday night to support them). The next five weeks, I was told by a summer camp staffer I trust, the Call-Out ceremonies were bad. The other chapter teams didn't have the ceremony memorized, and were reading it from the back of shields with flashlights.

I was told that the lodge doesn't want to risk problems this coming year, and simply wants the chapters to give them our ceremony team members. They will train them, practice them, and outfit them (I don't know with what). They will mold them into what they want.

You may be asking, where is the lodge ceremony team???? They only perform at the service (ordeal) weekends, conclaves, and special events. The lodge can't seem to get any of them out to summer camp on Fridays. So, the chapters have to pick up the slack. I talked to our chapter team about the change for this upcoming year, and they weren't interested. They wanted our chapter team to do what they did the year before and not be under the lodges control. We did a great job last year. Great outfits, flute music, drums, torches; maybe we had set the bar too high for the other chapter teams, but we don't know. We simply did our best. And yes, I include myself in this, as I didn't have to get involved. The scouts wanted me to support them and I did. Wonder what the lodge will do?

 So, how does your summer camp organize its camp OA Call-Out ceremonies. Do you have the summer camp staff perform, lodge team perform, or maybe chapter teams perform? Just asking.

sst3rd

Eagle94-A1,

    I see nothing changing. Start a new troop, as you will have a clean slate to start with. It sounds as if all of the pieces for a new troop are available. Finding a sponsor isn't difficult. Peace of mind is important to old and young alike.

    Gunship and his partners may understand the error of their ways when the new troop runs the BSA program and grows, but probably not. His threat, idle or not, can only be dealt with by scouts moving to a new troop. Oldest will have fun and grow, using the patrol method. Do NOT look back, but forward to an exciting program.

sst3rd

Krampus,

Sorry it ain't working for you. I'm sure our lodge and chapters aren't perfect, but in my opinion we're delivering a good program.

sst3rd

Tampa,

    I'm so glad you folks "set the SM straight." So there shouldn't be a "Scoutmaster's approval" requirement on the nomination form?

    Wow. "Paltry campers" being "scared off" by the words "Ordeal" and "Service" and " and won't "follow through anyway." This is what the "Scoutmaster's approval" requirement is about. In the old days, votes for candidates were limited, and you really had to make good choices. You couldn't waste your vote. And now for years, the newer procedures allow you to vote for all of the scouts on the nomination list if you want to.

    I always sat down and talked to each potential nominee (before each annual OA Election) and had an OA Scoutmaster's Conference. I discussed what the Order does, and the importance of qualifying for nomination into the Order. Some outstanding scouts didn't want to be nominated. They usually have good reasons and I respect them, and encourage them to think about maybe standing for the election next year. So, their name is dropped from the nomination list. I think scouts that get "scared off" ought not to be considered for the OA Election either.

    Sash and dash scouts are a problem for all the reasons we've been discussing for years. The Order is a commitment in addition to a scout's responsibilities towards their troop/patrol. That's what the "Scoutmaster's approval" is for. Evidently, that doesn't work for you.

ss3rd

As our Scouts planned their annual activities every August for the upcoming program year, I (SM) always supplied  calendars that had upcoming holidays, school vacations, council, district, and OA events already planned. Most established dates they had (or wanted) to avoid. Others, they could choose. We always avoided OA events. There were usually very few weekends left to choose from for our camp outs. Kind of worked itself out.

stosh,

You're working it SO hard. It's your way only, and other folks don't know what they're doing. This is so much fun.

sst3rd

I don't "rubber stamp" my signature on anything.

.....unit leader approval before the election. Call it what you like. That's the requirement.

Not sure how long you've been a Scoutmaster or if you guided your troop through any prior OA elections, but every year my old troop had OA elections, we'd all sit down and review the candidate qualifications for being nominated for an OA election. And as Scoutmaster, I made sure that the "Scoutmaster's approval" requirement is discussed.Several times over a 33 year SM career, we did not have an OA election because there were no qualified candidates.

sst3rd

I go back to the 60's, and I can't find one spring camporee patch. Maybe they knew then what we know now. Camporees are hard to execute nowadays, and spring time isn't a good time. Fall and winter have worked for us for many years.

Our lodge adviser changed recently. He was able to encourage the LEC to water down our Ordeal Weekends, oooooopppppssss, so sorry, now called Service Weekends. There's more play time then service time. There's more goof off time then fellowship time. This was to not only attract the new members, but to get back the current members. Quantity over quality is the mantra. It actually worked last year for our winter and spring service weekends, but our fall service weekend was a big disappointment. Our fall service weekends have always been "HUGE." Sorry, I couldn't resist. This new lodge adviser also demanded through the LEC, that all chapter committees, were automatically members of their associated lodge committees. This of course showed that the lodge was functioning very successfully. So, being the adviser for our chapter ceremony committee, I asked the team what they wanted to do. We advised our chapter adviser that we would not go in that direction and everyone resigned. No AOL's and Call-Outs. Got a call from lodge adviser. He was very disappointed in our decision and asked me to explain our lack of dedication. I had no time for this crap, and hung up. It worked out eventually, and everyone in the chapters simply went about their business. What was he going to do. Fire us?

In my opinion, when they opened up the elections to unlimited numbers, this change was abused and /or ignored. If each Scoutmaster truly reviewed and then approved each candidate, it might have worked. But everyone wanted numbers. It has failed. The truly honorable scouts are drowned out by those temporary numbers, and simple move on to the many other opportunities in their lives.

So, getting back to the subject at hand, what was once a group of dedicated scouters and scouters, is now just a group.

sst3rd

cnew2,

    Things may not always be perfect, but I really don't ever expect them to be. Sounds like a great weekend. Rock on. My old troop would usually take a cabin trip each January out at our council camp. We'd do a service project for the ranger, and have a lot of fun.

sst3rd

Stosh,

    I realize you're not looking for approval for your plan, but I still like it and I approve. I've been in scouting for many years, and wish my community was in a position to do just what your planning. I like everything about each step your taking. Just keep your assistant and two scouts involved at all levels so they feel completely invested. With your experience and knowledge, I'm looking for these current and new scouts to have an absolutely fantastic program.

No limits,

sst3rd

qwazse,

"I think we're about the same rate of loss after one year from former cubs vs. non-cubs. The difference? With former cubs, it's usually the parent's decision over the boy's objection. With non-cubs, it's usually the boy's decision over the parent's objection."

Truer words have not been spoken.

sst3rd

Qwazse,

    ".........the field they are in needs to be reseeded!"

I realize that everybody else is co-ed on all levels. Enjoy. Leave BSA alone. It will be destroyed if girls are allowed in the troops specifically. We've lost so much already.

sst3rd

Lu,

    Like others have mentioned, it appears that you are going against troop tradition that has been established for years. Around my council, I have only heard of and participated in Eagle COH's that are separate from troop COH's. As a long time former SM, I always talk with the Scout about what "HE" would like to do for his Eagle Court. They need a reminder that they take the lead in this. We've had a couple of joint ECOH's, but most were stand alone ECOH's. I guide the Scout (and sometimes his family) on where, when, how big does he want it, the involvement of his troop, and any special guests that he wanted to invite. I also had a very special scout that simply wanted me to privately give him the Eagle Award set. I understood. He was one of our best scouts.

    If I was your son's SM, I would support and guide him to plan a nice varied program that gives him the chance to say thank you to those involved in his earning Eagle, and where all appropriate recognition's are made. As far as turning the ECOH into some sort of never ending tribute to him from all of the folks that want to say something, I can only say that there would need to be a time limit, and he would have to make the choices. If you the parent demand that he have unlimited time for all of this interaction, I'd withdraw my support as SM, and give you the package to present to your son as you want.

    Another thought crossed my mind. How about a nice varied normal ECOH, and then have a nice reception afterwards where everyone could then have the opportunity to roast and/or praise him with no time constraints. Folks could leave as they wish.

    As far as your troop's scouts and leaders attending and/or being apart of this ECOH, usually the Eagle Scout has a scout friend or two that he wants involved in some fashion in his ECOH. A flag ceremony to start things off, maybe a fellow scout to give the Eagle Charge (or similar text), having scouts seat people, etc.., are ways to have your troop involved. The idea is to have scouts from his troop involved, so that they can see how an ECOH is done. It adds a visual to all they've heard about earning their own Eagle rank. I would hope that you have his Scoutmaster presenting the Eagle to this Scout, but maybe he wants something else. This is obviously going to rub his troop the wrong way, and I assume that your son has planned to leave scouting after this. Sorry to hear that.

Think about what's really happening here, and support your son in what "HE" wants to do.

sst3rd

JustThinking,

    It appears that this Scoutmaster is ill prepared to explain what the purpose of the OA is. Since you're not interested, there's your answer. As far as your son, this Scoutmaster needs to have someone to talk with him who can explain the OA's purpose from a youth perspective. Your son can then make an informed decision. I'm sorry this SM wishes to keep this "tradition" going, as it seems forced. A SM can't force a Scout to stand for an OA election. If your son is not interested, he needs to tell his SM. I've had occasional years where I had no eligible Scouts for an OA election, so no OA election that year.

    What might be nice, is to invite your OA Chapter's Chief (or other chapter officer) to a meeting, to present the purpose of the Order of the Arrow. The Scouts need to be knowledgeable about the OA as well as the adults. If no one is interested, there needs to be no OA elections.

sst3rd

OA Chapter Adviser

Roc Doc,

    Yes. Several times over 33 years. Just say "NO." Don't let anyone change your mind.

It's simple. He kept doing what he wanted to do but got tired of being counseled to death with you. So he went somewhere else. They made things tough for him there, so he wants to come back. Don't let that happen.

sst3rd

None of them.

sst3rd

Faith,

    My district's Cub and Boy Scout Roundtables have always been excellent, and the staff over the years has also been great. Some meetings better than others, but they've always asked for input (every July at a special Roundtable meeting) and used most of it. Sounds like Roundtable staff training is nonexistent or ignored.

    I will assume that PCM stands for Pack Committee Meeting. As long as everyone is somehow getting the district and council updates and sharing them at your PCM's, sounds like that's the next best thing to a correctly executed Roundable program.

Party on,,,,,,,,,,,,

sst3rd

To answer the original question:

If troops provide an active program with lots of input from their Scouts, troops will sustain membership.

If troops have great relationships with local packs, they will get like minded Webelos to join and stay, and membership will grow locally.

If excited Scouts ask their friends to give it a try just once, they'll join, and memerbership will grow locally.

Boy Scout troops will "right size" for boys that want to camp, hike, swim, etc., in their area

Weak troops will continue to fold due to lack of adult leadership, and boys that want that outdoor program.

Boys that have no desire for an outdoor program, will rarely give it a try (with some exceptions).

Boys already too busy, will rarely give it a try (with some exceptions).

If you can't figure it out by now, my area has had a huge influx of hispanics over the last decade. Packs have been somewhat successful in fall school recruitments, but membership falls off after the new year. Troops haven't had much success in getting Webolos to make the jump and giving camping a chance, and recruiting Boy Scouts from the schools and neighborhoods, has had no success. In talking with the parents of these hispanic families, most are very active Catholics, and most church activities happen on weekends.

I even had a Webelos ask me, after our troop invited his den on a camping trip, why we couldn't go camping on Thursdays.

Boy Scout troops will meet the needs of the boys that want camping, and could grow a bit.  But we need to find these boys and make it available. Other than that, we'll continue to consolidate troops until we get to that level.

sst3rd

Twocubdad,

    I like that idea, and it keeps the 18yo's involved. Keeping it simple allows resources to go towards their program.

Go for it!

sst3rd

We've been here before several times, but I respect all of the viewpoints.

For me, I would leave. I have my memories.

Direct and to the point. There is real value in Scouting. It should start parents thinking.

boyledscouting,

   Again, we say that there is only ONE Scoutmaster. All other adults are Assistant Scoutmasters, Committee members, or parents. Your Scoutmaster works (training) with the PLC/SPL in developing and executing your Scout led program. Talk to the Scoutmaster first about all of this. Again, there is only one Scoutmaster. The assistant scoutmasters support the scoutmaster and his vision.

Good luck,

sst3rd