sst3rd

askyourspl,

    I've been around the BSA for a long time. If they had to create and keep updated documentation about everything we can't do in our troops, we'd run out of paper (yes, I'm that old).

A Boy Scout troop is comprised of members that are boy scouts. There are also trained adult leaders. I guess you also have to count parents that aren't registered that are allowed to attend BSA activities. But this troop program is for the boy scouts. Not non registered hangers on girls. She needs to stay home, and the longer this is allowed to happern, the harder it's going to be to fix. All the reasons you've mention in which this girl's presence messes things up are real. You may lose this ASM and his son, but the point needs to be made.

Good luck,

sst3rd

Just something that struck me personally. I just received a notification from my lodge that a dear friend and mentor of mine had passed away. Our lodge has a great administrator that stays on top of everything. Anyway, this note also included a copy of his obituary. It mentions the normal stuff, and then notes his over 40 years in the BSA. It also mentions that he recently started a Trail Life troop at his church (as I guess they got rid of the long standing BSA troop). And of course at the end of the obituary it asks that in lieu of flowers, to please make a donation to the Trail Life troop at his church.

I had been on many committees and training staffs with Bill. An outstanding Scouter and gentleman, but most importantly to me, a friend. Lots of great memories. So, it just came across a bit weird. But that's just me. Just an observation.

sst3rd

All of this makes for interesting reading. I truly respect everyone's views. For me, if BSA can remain for just boys as members until after I die, that would be great. If it changes before then, I'll resign. After 38 years as a SM (for three different troops including my home troop), I've had a great and challenging trip. I've spent the last three years doing maintenance at a very special council camp with a bunch of mostly retired unit leaders. We are a very dedicated group of folks. Our fellowship is strong for the Boy Scouts. I hope to keep "working" out there for many years to come. I really don't know if my friends would leave the BSA if this change occurs. It just wouldn't be the same. I don't mind the occasional tweak, but some things don't have to change.

sst3rd

blw2,

    I don't know by whose authority your son's PLC dismantled the patrols. Was an adult leader pushing this? Was it the PLC itself? Either way, if the scouts of the troop are not allowed to form natural patrols with their friends, etc., this reorganization might "work", but won't be successful. By forcing the creation of "balanced" patrols, without the direct input of the scouts themselves, it's just not fair. A scout asks a friend to join him in his patrol (naturally), and then they get split up to balance things out? If there is a problem with the patrols, ask the scouts of these patrols how to fix them.

sst3rd

Sorry about the drama. As our OA chapter's ceremony committee advisor, we put our services out for all to see. We do Call-Outs for troops, and AOL's for packs. When a request is made from the pack , usually CM or WDL our Ceremony Committee Chair (a Scout), assembles a team. If one can't be assembled quickly, we call the pack back in plenty of time for the pack to make other plans. Yes, that's me the adult advisor making sure this happens that way. I apologize to no one.

We don't do Crossovers. As a  former SM, I feel that the pack/Webelos leaders and receiving troops, either have their own ceremony or should put one together to meet their expectations. We will support the Crossover, stand around. look good, be props, but the Crossover belongs to the packs/troops. We do everything possible to keep our promise of being there. We are, however, dealing with young men and their ever increasing responsibilities at home, school, and other outside activities. Sometimes they simply forget a prior gig. That's why I get paid the big bucks.

Again, it's about the scouts.

sst3rd

No.

Although I was a Cub Scout, I never was a Cub Scout leader. So the many varied thoughts and opinions are very interesting. My many years as a Boy Scout leader, I'm thinking how I would approach this situation if the boy was a 10 year old (AOL) or just turning 11. Having been away from the SM position for a couple of years, I clearly remember the complexity of the position, and how all of the other leaders and parents leaned on you to do what's right, and complain when things aren't always "peachy."

The last thing I would want to have to worry about is having a transgendered boy join the troop. The parents know this organization is for boys. It's not for girls who think they're boys. Period. Even if everybody but me knew he was really a girl, why do I have to be put in this position. There's too much to deal with already. Give me a break!!!!!

Oh yeah, now I remember (after 36 years) why I retired as a SM. Mostly great times, but seriously; can't we just keep it simple? And this is the perfect time for me to tell these parents if they want their transgendered child to have a scouting experience, then start a scouting type program for transgendered children.

Stosh,

    Once again you have given us a logical breakdown of the patrol method as it pertains to leadership and teamwork. Your example is clear and makes perfect sense. And then you mentioned elsewhere about your "bummer" process and how it challenges the patrol as a team. I just don't know how much more of this I can take.  

Merry Christmas all,

sst3rd

No they can't.

The current SM, and any future SM currently involved with the program, should discuss with this new young ASM his role in advance. The SM has a valuable new resource. Use it wisely, but give him appropriate time to fellowship with his friends. I would not force him to always work with the youngest scouts. Negotiate a balanced role. And most of all, recognize him for a job well done, and how valued he is to the troop's program. Do not allow any adults (leaders or not) to make him feel less than who he is (Eagle or not by the way), an important new adult leader.

I had many scouts to scouters transition successfully over 33 years. I had one who didn't get it. Fired him.

sst3rd

Summer camp was never an activity we were aware of. We always remained very active during the summer months however, and every other year or so, we would camp for a week on Bugg's Island Lake (between North Carolina and Virginia), at Eagle Point (council leased property from the Corp of Engineers). Some of my and my brother's best scouting memories were there.

We always had plenty of opportunities for advancement, if anyone was wondering.

And when I took over this very troop a few years later, I got our scouts involved in choosing and attending traditional summer camps (anywhere but "our" camp, as it was lousy, but it's a bit better now).

I was in Boy Scouts for 7 years. I never went to summer camp.

Up until two years ago, our sequence on Ordeal Weekends (now called service weekends to avoid possible thoughts of abuse) for ceremonies were:

Brotherhood in the afternoon (daylight)

Dinner for brothers, then dinner for Ordeal candidates

Ordeal Ceremonies after dinner in the dark for as long as needed (possible multiple ceremonies)

Two years ago, old lodge advisor forced out, new advisor in. He wants immediate action to get more members in. Pushed more elections even with troops that said "NO", changed our service weekend schedule by cutting service time in half so everybody can enjoy dinner together as all ceremonies done in the afternoon (sun brightly shining), and evening activities can be for fun and fellowship.

Now, our lodge numbers took a hit by having more troops opt-out of the OA, because older adult OA leaders/troop leaders seeing reduced value of the OA.

That was predictable.

Outstanding!!!

Yes.

Cubmaster35,

    I was a successful Scoutmaster with a successful program at my church for over 33 years. Politics happened, and I refused to play the game, so I resigned.

    As this troop died in about two years, council asked me to set up two new troops. After training their adult and youth leaders, things aren't perfect, but moving forward nicely.

    To keep things going forward for your Cubs, it's important that you "release" yourself (and the other leaders) from this quagmire, and start a new unit elsewhere. The spirit your group has created from all of their hard work, will move with you to the new Pack. "Success" is the great healer.

Focus on the Cubs, and things will be fun again.

sst3rd

TryingToMom,

     For your scout's sake, find a new troop, and take his friends with him. This program is wrong and will NOT change.

sst3rd

scoutermomks,

    Another thought about schools, as yours may be set up differently. Our elementary schools end at the 5th grade, so we've recruited starting in April of each year, the graduating 5th graders. Most are at least 10 years old, and then can join the troop. We have several elementary schools nearby, and it's working great for us, as we haven't had a feeder pack for years. Our district (and DE) has had great relationships with our elementary schools, mainly for Pack recruitment in the fall.

Add that to your tool box.

sst3rd

Stosh,

    I've done the same thing over the years. It's weird to me that these troops give up on these inactive scouts. We've picked up several new scouts over each cycle this way. You know what you're doing. This is how to do it. The program will keep them. They've just got to give it a chance.

sst3rd

Stosh,

    I remember you said that other potential Webelos scouts went to other troops and others simply didn't cross, but it sounds like a great start anyway. I also think that as your/their program grows in action, former and bored scouts will look you up. When you have an exciting program, word gets around (social media and the old fashioned ways).

    My troop has done a variety of recruitment programs over the years, as our associated pack never had a consistent program. My question to our scouts has always been, "what if it works ?"

Congratulations,

sst3rd

KC,

    That's what I remember. Don't know if it's the same today. I will admit over the years, that I applied the same requirements for the adults as the youth candidates. I also ask them if they're interested in serving in the OA as I do the youth candidates. Some say no, some say yes. I think it's a courtesy.

sst3rd

fire 'em

Stosh,

    I know you and your two active scouts have been working towards these new scouts moving into your current troop. I hope all of them come from all of the packs and give your two scouts the opportunity to show how an active proper patrol scouting program is done.

    No doubt you might lose a few to the more adult oriented troop programs, as they are easier to participate in. But they wont know what they're missing. I find at this age, they still will blab to their non scout friends what a great time they had on their camping trips. I never had our pack graduate Webelos consistantly to our troop (as our pack came and went with adult leadership), and in my area, every pack was linked with their troop, period. We picked up friends one at a time, and we grew from there.

    You have a great opportunity for your program, and I know you wont let them down. I'm sure your two current scouts are excited about the challenge.

Party on........

sst3rd

Tampa,

    Yes the two lodges will merge.

    We recently went through a district split, and were hoping the one chapter would remain to serve both districts. We barely had the basic committees staffed with youth and advisers. OH YEAH, they demanded that the chapter split immediately. We advisers and youth tried to explain, but nobody would listen. We were told that this decision came from national OA. Both new chapters were forcefully created.They never had a chance. GREAT MOVE national OA! Thanks for listening to your members.

sst3rd

Krampus,

    Many prayers from the old dominion.

sst3rd