SSScout

"What has the District done for me lately?"

Yep the District can "own" nothing unto it self, but yet it can, as a Scout is Trustworthy.

I presently have probably $500. worth of equipment in my shed that by rights is the Districts (or some Districts, we've been reorganized and amalgamated three times in the past five years). It was bought with fees from CSDC, Camporees, and Web Weekends. It is brought out and used as needed. It will go onto somebody elses shed eventually.

Out our way, Camporees and WWeekends are sponsored and organized by local units. The stuff needed comes out of their trailers and Scout dads' sheds. And then it goes back. Jake knows that Sam has XX and Pete remembers that John T. has a PPP that we can use. It gets done. "the way opens" and things worth doing get done. By Somebody, doesn't it?

Around here, we do not think of the word "scrounge" as a bad word.

Just remember to put a NAME on the popup shelter so it can go back in the right garage.

Thank you.

Goes to show you don't get help until you ask for it. Go ahead and ASK.

Scoutnut! Consider the results of your suggestion! Take a 1/2 inch PVC pipe (free scrap from your plumber friend), cut off a 1 inch length for the slide, sand smooth. Hot glue a leaf shape to it... I would love to see a life size Sycamore leaf on a Tiger NCh slide! Our Sycamore has 12 inch wide leaves! A Mature Black Oak would be similar sized! Wonderful...I think it would be GREAT!

Use soft craft foam sheets, various colors.

"The humble, meek, merciful, just, pious, and devout souls are everywhere of one rreligion; and when death has taken off the mask they will know one another, though the diverse liveries they wear here make them strangers."

= William Penn = The Fruits of Solitude =

So when is the Forum going to give us a Chaplaincy and Faith Forum? Seems to me that the Politics is/are a seperate thing from the G word items...

There have been many times I have been asked, at public displays and private confabs, "do you have to be Christian to be a Scout?" or it's converse, "how can you be a Scout if your not Christian?" I can only point at the mono-faith Troops I met at the 05 Jamboree (NY Jewish) and the Muslim units that I now Commish for, and then count the boys in my home Troop (Hindu, Methodist, Catholic, Quaker, Baptist that I know of. Unfortunately, the Hindu family is inactive presently).

I have a problem with a faith that seeks to control it's members with fear, whether that is fear of damnation or fear of dissassociation or fear of ...what? But it is not for me to judge. I can only live my example for others to see.

My God is one of love and forgiveness of my faults and acceptance of me and mine despite all the reasons I should not be accepted.

WWJD? is not a new radio station.

Happy Purim and ( in advance) St. Pat's Day, by the way, begorra.

Correction to previous post:

Yes, I guess I have met some whose religion will allow a mention of doubt. But it is still,hey, (as Paul said) 'come and see', my truth may well be a better truth than yours.

Personal experience:

I once worked with a young lady (well, we were both youngER then...) who was a devout Jehovah's Witness. We were both on the late night shift, not much to do but watch after the building. And we did discuss religion! It was interesting to me how we both professed belief in Christ as Savior, but how she refused to read anything I passed to her for consideration while she could pass to me stuff for me to read (Watch Tower). If I could tell her my material was "history" and not meant to "convert" her, then that was all right.

Verbal argument and comment, personal witness was fine, but she "was not allowed" to accept anything written, unless it was "history". Allowed by whom? Why, the Elders of the Temple, of course. The Bible was okay, but only THEIR Bible. No other religious work was "allowed". Biblcal argument was good, but not unless it matched the JW argument, verse for verse.

My first introduction to the idea that there is more than one Bible. And that the Bible may be inerrant, but some parts of the Bible are more correct than others. Depends on who is doing the declaring. Nuances.

I could certainly come and visit her religious service, but she would never come to visit mine.

She would not set foot in any building "dedicated" to any other religion. Well, this did present a problem, when I invited her to my birthday party, since first off, they don't celebrate BDs(!) (parties are okay, just not BDs) and second, since a Quaker Meeting for Worship can rightly be held anywhere at all ("wherever two or more are gaithered..."), even the Community Hall of our Meeting (where the BD was to be held) might be seen as a religious building.

But she was a very good person, and I had large respect for her, as she expressed the same for me on more than one occassion.

But were we both Christian? Some might not say so. Were either of us convinced of the other's version of Christianity? Nope. She saw mine as having little or no "authority" behind it, I saw hers as having too much human and maybe not enough spiritual behind hers. But I saw hers as being sufficient for her and I think she suspected mine as being sufficient for me.

But still hers was more right than mine to her... And I decided that was alright in the end. Perhaps she felt sorry for me as being 'doomed' but I felt no such pity for her.

Doom, is , after all not mine or your decision.

What was that about 440,000 select?

Scout Field Book, c1948, 1959 printing.

Any book by Ernest Thompson Seton. Seek them out.

Is this a "special" colection, that is not ordinarily done? Or is it a mere extention of a regular, usual, ongoing collection? Our Council does "Scouting for Food" in Novenber for a local agency that collects and distributes food to needy folks. It is not an Eagle project, but is Council sponsored. The SfF collects well over 50% of the pantry's total yearly supply.

The scope of your Eagle's project needs to be considered. Could it be expanded to include the whole county? The whole District? The whole Council? Now, there would be leadership demonstrated! Get others to help write letters, contact community leaders, news media, etc.

Bon appetite!

It is the duty of every parent (and they fulfill this duty,whether they are aware of it or not) to school their children in what they feel is the best way to honor and worship God/higher power/universal spirits as they have perceived this method to be. Most of these methods are codified into "official" religions (or lack there of). It is then the children's duty (again, they fulfill this duty, whether they are aware of it or not) to either ACCEPT or REJECT that method. It will happen, either way. Christian parents will end up with athiest children or Bishops. Jewish parents will end up with Rabbis or Buddhists. Jehovah's Witnesses will end up with Quakers or Elders. Athiests beget Priests and nihilist philosophers. It happens.

I do not know of a single religion that says (officially) "our faith may not be the best way to God". I can point to a couple that do allow as much as to say that one person's faith may not be the best for another, however. Each faith is demonstrably the "best " way to God.

We can be proud of our progeny, or dissappointed, or disgusted or second guess ourselves.

We DO ask our Scouts to "DO MY BEST" er that's "DO YOUR BEST" , etcetera...

We do not ask them to DO IT or ELSE.Do we?

If the Scout is asked to "do his BEST" when it comes to spiritual faith, can that be judged absolutely as one might judge a correctly tied square knot? I keep coming back to my experience at the 05 Jamboree as Chaplain. I met and signed off on the "Duty to God" rocker for at least ten Scouts who told me quote I'm not so sure about this God stuff unquote. If I extend that to the other 35 Chaplains who were doing the same thing, I estimate about 350 Scouts out of the 40,000 had the same,what, ideology? Not quite agnostic? Not quite athiest? In conversation with some of my fellow Chaplains, I did not come across any who would favor actively "outing" any of these Scouts.

I still say that Scouting is a self selecting organization. If our standard is the Scout Promise and the Scout Law and assuming Irving doesn't try to adjust them ( the definitions for the Law have been changed thru the years), those that feel they cannot even ATTEMPT to meet those ideals will leave. "A Scout is Trustworthy" should be what we concentrate on. See James 5:12, perhaps.

Course, now, you will find the occasional UnScout Scout. Swearing to tell the truth in court doesn't guarantee the truth will be told, either. Which leaves us, where?

Optimist: The glass is half full.

Pessimist: The glass is half empty.

Engineer: The container was not designed so as to optimize the volume to contents ratio.

Scouter: Is the source of the water safe? Pass the iodine tablets.

*ahem*

"Reverence to God and reverence for one's neighbor and reverence for oneself as a servant of God, is the basis of every form of religion. The method of expression of reverence to God varies with every sect and denomination. What sect or denomination a boy belongs to depends, as a rule on his parents' wishes. It is they who decide. It is our business to respect their wishes and to second their efforts to inculcate reverence, what ever form of the religion the boy professes."

==Robert Baden-Powell, "Aids to Scoutmastership"

That said, if the form of reverence the parents choose is NOT to believe in a "higher power", then all the Scout Leader can do is not pass on the requirement. And remind the Scout that he has been asked to make a promise. Has he kept that promise? Is it no longer possible to attempt to keep that promise?

So as to not keep repeating ourselves, see: http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=227967&p=1

There are worthy youth organizations without a religious componant.

(This message has been edited by SSScout)

I am familiar with JCorbi's. We've been on both sides of the pizza box here. I've never seen anything but Corbi labels on their packages. Never "XYZ Elementary School Pizza" or "Boy Scout Troop ABC Pizza". It's aways labeled Joe Corbi Pizza.

Eagle32, has your Council declared WHY , what has happened to get Corbi declared of limits?

Perhaps Corbi is claiming that one can "raise money for your Scout Troop!" Is that too much?

I heard Mazucca's speech. I wonder that he thinks Latino family values are so foreign to BSA ideals that BSA must adjust to accomodate these newly minted citizens. I have been counseled by my Latino friends, especially those of central American origin, that the Hispanic community is often eager to join Scouts, if the boys (and girls!) are first approached by their friends at school, and if the Scouters involved make sure that they are seen as anything but a semi-military group. The tan shirts, the uniforms, the ceremony tho often done with a military bearing, tends to remind of the less than friendly military of their home country. Our uniforms need to be seen as something other than mere authority. What does Scouting stand for?

Soccer tourneys for Cubs and summer rec programs should not change the BSA program (whatever it is, see another thread!), but if soccer attracts boys to Scouting, all to the good. Adjust the soccer requirements to accomodate the law, should be no problem.

When I was a Cub, We had a CS softball league, the only one in town. Kids joined so they could play ball.

As has been noted, Scout leaders need be sensitive to the cultural, and religious differences of our Scouts. Food choice, non-Christian faith, skin hue, mode of dress or hair style, I defy anyone to find a place in the Scout Promise or Law that requires we deny access to Scouting to any boy or family for any of these reasons. Our boys need to be taught by us , in lesson and example, the openness , the acceptance, the opportunity that is endemic to the American Way.

What Hal said. And what ALF said. That said, be aware that you as CC can steer things to a certain extent. Take your given authority seriously. Your COR friend called on you for a reason. Remind him of this as necessary. It's good if you can present the choices to the folks involved so that as much as posssible, everyone will think the idea was theirs.

Get your DE and/or UC to arrange Committee member training, in person if possible, but some is available on line http://olc.scouting.org/index.html . The training is labeled "Troop Committee", but it is germane to Cub ScoutPacks, too. And, believe it or not, there are guidebooks available for Committee folk AND the COR. Check with your Council Store. Convince folks of the importance of all agreeing on being trained for best effect. Coffee and donuts. This will help clear up some misunderstanding and give everyone a new place to start from and a common language.

Your job is first fence mending, next coordination, not so much excuse making.

Assume all the participants want what is best for the Cubs and the Pack and try to ignore the ego problems as much as possible.

You can do this. Have faith. "It's for the kids".

Yep. G2SS is quoted in the Pack28 guidelines.

At our CSDC, Archery and BBs are allowed for Cubs and the sibs of Cub age, under the same conditions , but the sibs must register as a Cub for the camp. We have cousins "join" for the camp just to get at the archery and BBs, but if the Pack can arrange the Den Walkers to cover, and they register with the Pack as a Cub, we say welcome! But no can do as a Pack only activity. Gotta be at a District or Council sponsored activity with appropriate Range Officers.

You say your Troop is "mostly white". I have never had that sort of problem in my Scout endeavors, but at work... I am caucasian and was a supervisory sort of fella in a mostly black and hispanic shop. I "grew up" in the shop but on occassion, some one I had to discipline would go running to the higher ups to claim the race card with me. My reputation for fairness always preceeded him, tho. Once, however, I had a greivance filed against me for a report I had to make against one of my employees of color. I actually had to call in some other workers to testify in my behalf.

What I would suggest is to be scrupulously fair amongst your Scouts. Invite that dad to come and be an ASM. Let him see how your Troop includes everyone. Perhaps he is being overly sensitive and protective of his son. His past history might lead him to that, but you may never know the true dynamics. If the "mostly white" Troop has a dad you know that the other dad might more easily relate to, ask him to speak to the new kid's dad.

Has anyone spoken to the Troops' boy leadership? Maybe the new kid just didn't understand how things work. After all, not everybody gets 'elected' to every position they might aspire to, right?

Language: Any where else, addressing the Troop as "boys" would be OK. But then you have to remember the term 'boy' might have another connotation here. Maybe referring to everybody as SCOUT would be a better, more appropriate term here?

Patience. You'll find your way yet.

Let's see... required reading for the class includes...

US Constitution, 2nd Amendment

The Weapon Shops of Isher, Van Vogt

The Weapon Makers , Van Vogt

any good text about the Weimar Republic

The Foundation series, Assimov

Tao Ta Ching, Laotze

Bible, Book of Acts, etal

Webelos is a transitional program. If the Cub and his parents have fully utilized the Cub program, they should be aware of the religious component. If nothing else, the Webelos Leader should help them to be aware. It should not be necessary to "kick out" a Scout. It should only be necessary to remind them of the soon-to-be-promised Scout Promise and the already recited Cub Scout Promise. We are asking the Cub (and his parents?)to seriously consider what his "duty to God" is.This is ,admittedly, not the same for all.

As has been said before in these forums, Scouting is (or should be) a self selecting group. We ask the Scout to agree to use the Scout Law and the Scout Promise as the ideals of their life. "A scout is Trustworthy". If he truly agrees with the ideals we promulgate, we are in business. If not, then it might be suggested that he consider resigning. If the boy is of one mind and the parents another, I don't think we have the biggest problem.

Is it the duty of the Webelos leader to "kick out" a boy from Scouting? No, I don't think so. Should he insist on everyone being aware of the Scouting ideals? Most certainly. Should he insist on ONE type of Duty to God? No. How can he?

There are other worthy youth groups out there that have no religious component.

Just came back from a CPR class. The instructor was a EMT who also does training in backcountry first aid. He suggested first, as has been suggested here, that each Scout carry a small first aid kit of personal stuff, Band Aids ©, gloves, antiseptic. Beyond that, he suggested that the Troop (or Patrol) first consider what kind of things MIGHT happen on the planned trek. He demonstrated a segmented first aid kit, three or four sections, in heavy duty waterproof sealed ziploc © bags.. The idea being that one could SHARE the carrying of all the desired items, in smaller kits, rather than one BIG F/A kit in a big fishing box or war surplus ammo box.

One boy carries the CAT scan, one the Xray, one carries the AED kit, one carries the IV infusion machine, you know, like that... Makes it more fair than one ASM carrying the whole hospital.

He suggested that most of the stuff in the usual "industrial" F/A kit were not really necessary or even needed in any foreseeable future hike or urban planned camp out. However, if you were going out into the Cascade Range for two weeks, or rafting down the Yough for a week, you might take more stuff. So parcel the stuff out in waterproof bags amongst the Scouts.

Remember when we were encouraged to tape a couple of dimes inside the F/A kit? Then quarters?

CubsRg8t: I second np's comment. Also, perhaps some OA officer querying about other activity attendance. Ordeals? Banquets? Ceremony teams? Is attendance at these good? Only so so? How and why do the boys go to those? Link the need to the pride of accomplishment and leading other boys to the ideals the OA professes.

Cubmobiles...

The design around here is tricycle. A triangular frame, seat about 2/3s back from the front, two wheels on a solid rear axle, and a big swivel caster on the front. Power by pushing or towing by rope. Cub teams of one or two or even three boys. Foot brakes. Level terrain only, or towed UP HILL, so there is no danger of the toeteam being run over.

Engineer cheer:

"E to the x, d y d x, E to the x, d x.

Secant, tangent, cosine, sine,

3.14159

Square root, cube root, BTU,

Slipstick, slide rule, YEAH PURDUE!

"What's a phonograph, daddy?"

Knife and axe and saw use are certainly touchy subjects. When I was first asked to teach "Woodtools" at OLS,I looked up all I could in the "official" literature, and went on the web, and talked to some other folks that I respected. I also thought long about my history as a Scout and my dad who worked as a timber cruiser and at a saw mill. I found that alot of the "safe" technique was not 'codified' and was more 'tradition'. The GSS and its language has been mentioned already. Concerning knife and axe and saw, there is very little instruction in the present Scout handbook and none in the present Fieldbook. Go to earlier Handbooks, you'll find several pages detailing good, safe technique. My Fieldbook from the mid sixties, has nine pages of instruction with photos of Scouts using knife and axe. How to cut down a 12" tree?

(from the Fieldbook pg.158) " First Class SCOUTCRAFT Requirement No.3a

a. Camp Making - Sharpen an axe and use it for cutting light wood into tent pegs."

""Interpretation:: Sharpen axe (hand axe) with file and stone (pg.159). Tent pegs should be about 8" long, pointed at one end, with a notch approximately one inch from the other end."

I have to say that the axe and knife skills I picked up came as much from the books by Eric Sloane ("Diary of an Early American Boy")and his recounting of the use of antique hand tools as I got from my Scout leaders and my father. Then, too, in my previous life, I sometimes think I must have been a lumberjack....

The class I put together included showing and demonstrating several types of hand axes, felling axes, a double bit axe, an axe with broken handle, a two man crosscut saw, a Sven folding saw, a bow saw, wedges and sledge, a wedgemaul, several types of pocket knives, lock backs and 'clasp', kitchen knives, a 'rescue knife' (skindiving), and a wood 'practice' knife. Files, Carborundum oil stone, Arkansas dry stone, diamond hone, "sursharp" tool, a ceramic steel. The hand out was 8 pages, reprints from some websites and official BSA stuff.

I found myself not only showing how to use the tools correctly and safely, but also talking about BSA's limitations as to ""official"" practice. Tote'n Chip? Whittlin' Chip? How to instruct? how to test? All tradition. Make a tent peg. How to pass the tool safely, carry it safely, etc. Will it PREVENT accidents? No, only make them LESS likely, as I showed the scar on my left finger from my Scout days.

Once upon a time, my bosses in the Bus Transit Service removed all trash cans from our busses. Why? because they tended to attract trash. (goal: keep the busses clean).

I feel it is by the same reasoning, there is very little or no mention of axe use in our Scout Handbook or Fieldbook. Telling Scouts how to use an axe in the Handbook tends to encourage their use.

When I teach a Scout (Cub or Boy or Adult),personally, how to use a sharp tool, I feel I am passing on a skilled tradition, much like a Master-Apprentice relationship. When the recipient of my training goes forth and uses that skill, or, better yet, teaches another in the arcane use of this obsolete tool, it is the passing of a tradition. Yep, it might sometime save a finger that might otherwise be injured. Or a life. I sometimes think about how my dad or that long aged Patrol Leader taught me. Maybe that Whttlin' Chip Cub will remember learning to fold the knife with an open hand (won't find that in ANY BSA publication) and think of an old fuzzy faced Scouter. And then further on he will teach another son. And another finger will be saved.

Oh well..."Respect the edge", ya'll.

nwscouterlee: Welcome to the forummmmmms. Here, you will find ideas, encouragement and, perhaps most importantly, SYMPATHY!

Six Cub Scout Day Camps? Must be a large-economy- sized District ? Or perhaps a Council with several smaller Districts? I have to ask, why are you considering several seperate themes? Why not one theme thruout all the camps? I always favor the economy of size in such things.

Our Council coordinates CSDCs for several Districts. The Powers That Be use PODS, a private company that shuttles a portable storage unit between the sequentially scheduled camps. The POD carries the archery gear, craft tools, sports material, water jugs, etc. The "consumables" (tape, arrows, beads, craft stuff) are replenished between camps. Since the themes are the same, we can get the same type of hats, and Tshirts and such.

A few years ago, the theme was Wild, wild West. Each District interprets the theme as they will, we did the Lewis and Clark Expedition. Nature Pavilion did Flora and Fauna, discovery notebook keeping. As the week went by, we recounted the expedition in staff skits, monday was the outfitting, til friday was reaching the Pacific (water carnival). Don't tell the Cubs, but they might have learned some history along the way. We found a trick roper who did a lunch "special" , a riding club came by to show the horses, Crafts paviion made "salboat barges".

Shortridge has some good ideas for you. Get your core group together and sit down over some pizza and brainstorm. Lots of neat possibilities out there.

But seriously consider ONE theme for ALL camps over each week. Talk it up every chance you

can, at the Roundtables, at Unit meetings, over the web pages...Collect your staff as early as possible. Search these forums and other Scout pages for lots of good ideas.

Good Luck! Kis MiF YiS

In my last year as a CM, I had 3 webs cross over, and about another 6 Cubs graduate, but not join Scouts ('nother thread). At the final Pack meeting (a picnic), I presented each boy with a Scout ooin and shook their hand and wished them well. Then, the AoL Cubs got their awards and a plaque I and the Web DL had made. It was a 6" 'cookie' from a cherry tree I had to cut down, wood burned with their name and date and Pack #, and a large AoL patch glued on, and a fletch end of an arrow stuck in at a acute angle. Then, the 'Bridging' Cubs were accosted by the District OA team, who led them to their Scout Troops across the bridge, all with appropriate who-hah.

From 'Scouting in New South Wales' October 1980:

The nine year old daughter of a Cub leader was asked by her teacher to prepare a composition answering the question: "What did you do last weekend?" Her response:

"Nothing! My mum went away for the weekend with Mr. Haylen ((her mother's group leader)). Daddy didn't mind because he knows him. Mum also went away with thirty other men and says that if she doesn't do these two weekends, all her others will be a waste of time.

"We are packing our bags and going to grandma's place next weekend. If mum passes her tests after her weekends, she will be able to wear a bootlace and two bits of wood around her neck".

==As quoted in "The Best of the Leader Cut-Out Pages" from the Scouts Canada National Office.