SSScout

Well, of course. No single project of such scale is going to advance without some opposition. Whether it's in the Adirondacks, the Arkansas, or the Appalachians. If BSA is determined to build the Jambo/Training/High Adventure site in Goshen, then they best be ready to listen and adjust and assure. They obviously can't please everyone, but they can strive to accomomdate and assuage the fears of the neighbors. "Full disclosure".

It is just possible that somebody might ask a "what if" question that the BSA folks in drybone Texas hadn't thought about in the damp Blueridge. Yeah, the issues aren't about GLBT things, they are about the impact (good and bad) of the building and operation of a big camp and periodic temporary 5th biggest city in Virginia. That's alot of portapotties. And ground water well draw. And transportation gridlock. And trees cut down. And dam safety. And asphalt laying. Ad nauseum.

I have a park near my home that is a "conservation area". It has been proposed to develope a "small" area into ball diamonds and soccer fields. Oh, boy, the activists (me among them) got up on our hind legs and went to the meetings. So far, the baseballers play elsewhere and us hikers hike here. It's the (thankfully) American way.

I also find such studies of little use.

The ability to predict the "goodness" of a citizen by knowing their religious affiliation is very questionable. It would depend on ones view of the correctness or appropriateness of the religion in question. Merely asserting a membership or agreement with a particular religion would never predict the "goodness" of a person's citizenship. No need to produce3 examples here, we can all find examples of less than exemplery examples of Catholicism or Jewishism or such. Likewise, we can produce examples of lifes lived with wonderful loyalty to the religious founders teachings. But for any particular defined faith, who is the example to cite? Dietrich Bonhoeffer? George Fox? Gautama Buddha? Mahatma Gandhi? Bin Laden? Some will example charity, some forgiveness, some vengefulness. Some will vote and participate in "government, some not.

If one declares themselves a "Christian" for instance, this implies a certain agreement with the teachings and example of Jesus. But how many hypocrites do you need to discredit the faith of all other "Christians"? The teachings of some Christian clergy can not be the brush to paint the rest of His followers.

It is indeed true that you can judge the tree by it's fruit, and by little else for certain. And it depends on who is doing the judging. The "good citizen" in Vermont may not be seen as a "good citizen" in Natal or Abu Dhabi.

I think it was Gandhi who observed that the most Christian people he knew were not Christian. Still, we must try to example the best our faith requires of us and be ready to accept the consequences of our actions from the rest of the world.

In my case, WWJD?

Ever watch a Roman/Biblical/sandal flick and notice the Rolex on the wrist of the hero?

If you watch closely to "Fist Full of Dollars", you can see a Winebago go by in the distance of one scene.

God help the poor Asst. Director in charge of continuity. I remember a TV show (which is in syndication and you'll see it sometime) in which the female lead injures her LEFT foot and hobbles around on a crutch under her LEFT shoulder for a while and then shows up with her RIGHT foot strapped and a crutch under her RIGHT shoulder. Guffaw!

Oh the humanity!

Daddy-o, some thoughts that came as I read thru this tome...

Harry Truman was once asked what a parent should do to help their children succeed. He replied, as I recall, that one should find out what the child likes to do and if it is not physically harmful, encourage them to do it.

Personal story: When I was 6,7, years old, I suffered from allergies, my folks got me tested, and discovered that I was allergic, to one degree or another, to ANYTHING that had hair, feathers or pollen. I had reaction to my own dandruff. I rode in the cab of the truck on the hay ride. I remember taking a series of desensitizing shots for THREE YEARS. Finally, I could pet a cat or dog without flinching. Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts were what I wanted to do. Neither my dad or my mom had any Scout experience, (tho my dad had worked as a timber cruiser). My mom told me once when I asked, that I had come home from school saing that I wanted to be a Cub Scout with my friend. So what I wanted to do, they helped me do.

My Scout Troop was an active one, and the advancement came automatically as we hiked and camped. Back then, Merit badges took an effort, as the Counselors might not be in the same Town, much less the same Troop, so the older boys took their time with the higher ranks. Weren't any Eagles, yet (Troop was only, it turns out, about 5 years old when I joined).

Then, a boy joined whose dad was a Naval officer. The boy announced (!) to us that he would be Eagle by the time he was 13 and a half. Had it all worked out. Back then, you could not advance in rank except by a time limit in the preceeding rank. WELL, us older boys got together,(really!) and decided we couldn't let this upstart become the Troops first Eagle Scout! So we planned our own Merit Badge classes, called around to find the counselors, and me and two of my friends became our Troops first Eagle scouts. New kid was number six, as it turns out, and about 15.

Now , Daddy-o, as to being over active. I was an honor roll student, played and marched in the band, played in a softball league, acted in plays, and did Key Club (jr. Kiwanis) and worked part time both in my dad's business and summers for other businesses. Some things were delayed for others, but it was all fun and I early on realized that some things were more important than others. Ya gotta pick and choose, after all. And my folks encouraged me in what I wanted to do.

What does Daddy-o son want to do? REALLY want to do?

As to mold allergies, yep, there is mold in them thar hills and woods, but I might suggest old mildewy tents and a possible sensitivity to the chemicals used in the synthetic materials in the gear and tents we now use. And explore with your health advisors the possibility of Daddy-o son outgrowing the allergies, or being desensitized to much of the allergen culprits. I still react to proximal cats and I know when goldenrod is near, but I ran track and cross country in school, too.

And still it boils down to (heard this before?) what does son want to do?

YiS

Miniature Golf.

Any local industry can be approached for a tour "back stage". Saying "Cub Scouts" opens many a door.

If you have the initiative, get together with the other local CPacks and organize a Softball league.

Don't forget to apply for and earn the "Summer Activity Award".

Wahooker: Welcome to the Forums. And to a great adventure. Your Cubs will long remember the adventures you will help create for them. "The Pack helps the Cub Scout grow..."

Ask your DE or your Unit Commissioner to obtain for you and your fellow DLs a binder labeled "Cub Scout Den Leader Kit". It comes with many brochures and other resources that will inspire and be useful to you. Also as has been mentioned, look up the book "Program Helps". Older issues are also very useful for craft and activity ideas. When you are registered as a Scout leader, you will eventually receive the Scouter magazine which will have an insert about CS activities.

And don't just do Den meetings in your rec room or church basement. Take'm to the park, meet at the fire station, or arrange a tour of the local hardware store. Check with the State Police and see about touring their helicopter base. Wow those Cubs.

Ask yourself, what would I like to see or do? Ask your Cubs and then take'm.

KISMIF

*sigh*

History lesson:

Dateline: Sandy Spring, MD. 1803. Local inventor Thomas Moore patents a "Refrigerator" (his coining of the word). He uses it to carry butter from his farm to Washington DC without spoilage. It consists of concentric cedar boxes (the butter being in the inner most cedar box) and packed in ice (cut last winter and kept in a buried insulated covered pit until needed), insulated with rabbit fir and enclosed in a final box of tin. Today, this would be called an "ice box".

I say crank it out...the effort makes the treat that much more enjoyed.

It is history, nothing more. Ask how the Park Rangers treat it when they lower it? Then too, ask them how they treat the USA flag when they lower that. Perhaps they fly the US flag of the period, 32 stars? Any difference? I hope so.

I would lower it, fold it up like my table cloth and if it is being "retired", put it in the fire first. The US flag last, and with due ceremony.

Edited: My wife just pointed out that these were, indeed, Americans, too. Perhaps badly misguided, but still. She also mentioned that if any music is to be played, Taps at the end, but Dixie before. "If it was good enough for President Lincoln, why not now?"

(This message has been edited by SSScout)

Lost the medal? Sad. I still have a shoebox full of Scout regalia. Two shoe boxes, actually. And my Uncle Frank's. Scout membership card signed (stamped) by Theodore Roosevelt. Yeah, it is a 'stamp' but still kinda cool. Scoutson askes to see the stuff sometimes. Marvels at the old necker slides I made. Led him to try his hand at carving. He might make Eagle yet, start his own shoebox.

www.scoutstuff.org , "flags and ribbons", custom made.

Shortridge and Sctdad: Berets and other head gear not withstanding: See previous thread:

http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=183742#id_184042

"Little Red Corvette" and "Raspberry beret"

Wonder if he was The Singer That Usta Be A Scout?

Bear with me,I just read thru this thread just now. I heard some good observations and ideas. Here's a plan, and, mind, it would take some advance negotiations and discussions amongst everybody: TC, PLC, interested adults (you know who you are). Alot of back porch meetings, but if you have a Troop worth saving, might be worth it. Firstly, The Scoutmaster, with the support of the Troop Committee sets the program, yes?

So the SM comes up and announces the establishment of the "Trail Draggers" Patrol, and here 'tis: and all the ASMs and other adult hangers on step forward. Now, the SM announces a Patrol competition for camping, hiking etc. here are the rules, here are the prizes, and here's when we're going to The Big Trek.

They tell you to TEACH, DEMONSTRATE, and TRUST, meaning the boys.

So, the SM with his PLC and Troop Guides become the Teachers. The TD Patrol becomes the Demonstrators. They camp the camp and hike the hike. BUT THEY ARE SEPERATE FROM THE BOYS.

Now the hard part. The Patrols go about Scouting, with adult "watchers" or whatever you want to title them, but these "watchers" do not participate except by invitation of the Scouts OR if something really dumb and dangerous needs to be prevented. I think we all understand why I said this is the hard part.

What Lisabob is describing is alot of parents that (1) want "quality time" with junior that maybe they didn't get earlier on and (2) want to relive and/or create the good Scout times they had (or lacked) waaay back when.

Just gotta make the TD Patrol realize that they have to set and demonstrate the Scout way, NOT the (alleged) ADULT way. No adult beverages, frinstance.

If the TD patrol is true to it's calling, the boys WILL try out their techniques and cuisine and will wonder why those old goats are on the trail so early when we're still cleaning the breakfast pots.

Could the TD Patrol win the Patrol Competition? Are they even in the running? Depends. Mostly on how charitable the Troop leadership is and how proud the Boy Patrols are. But if you have that large an adult group that wishes to be that active, it could work.

Bad things usually happen when energy is too tightly contained. Good things can happen when energy is rightly directed.

If you don't mind I will remind you that YOUR tickets should be YOURS. But it never hurts to be inspired by other ideas.

When I tried for WB, I was an ASM, officially. But I worked the CSDC to good effect and presented my WB PG some Cub Scout ideas. I was politely told NO. Since I was a BS Leader "officially", I had to do BS stuff, I would not be permited to do CS tickets. Bummer. My PG and I scratched heads and realized that if I wanted to do CS stuff, I would either have to become a CS Leader, or develope BS tickets. Then he said, "on the other hand...", and said that perhaps there was another way (Tao). If I was a Unit Commissioner, I could concievably work both sides of the street. What's a Unit Commissioner? I asked.

I was soon scheduled for a Commissioner's Class and signed a new Volunteer form.

So, some ideas I have seen worked.

Develope activity that allows Scouts to learn about other faiths than his own.

Develope Cub Scout Belt Loop Bash, wherein Cubs can earn BL not ordinarily available.

Encourage inter unit activities.

Develope guide for Unit Media use.

Help develope improved outdoor activities for "hot house" Troop.

Public Library use by Scouts.

More Den Chiefs.

From a mono faith Unit: 50% will earn the Religious Award.

Develope knot teaching game.

Cub and BS units in Hispano Community.

BS and GS relations.

Nature Trail Grande.

MB Counselor Grand Council List.

Scout history presentation, traveling show.

Just a few...

Sharpy: See? What did I tell you?

As you look thru all this good counsel, you may detect a pattern. Sympathy, recognition, choices. And our sure knowledge that you'll be okay and your Cubs will be the better. You dun good. Spend a little time to list your assets and then get on with it!

God speed and YiS

Sharpy: Hey, we;lcome...Please, have a seat... Pull up a log at our virtual campfire...

I'll start off here, and no doubt we'll have a few more good ideas come up from around the circle.

Firstly, I think it is very neat that you have a Scout dedicated cabin. Too bad about the AA. They do good work. Eventually you may get back on their good side, but that may have to wait. And it is great you have the VFW so interested, but now

I have to ask, who is your Charter Organization? The City? the VFW? Someone else? The CO are the first folks you need to go to for support and advocasy(?). If the VFW was your CO, they could give your Pack all the support, both materially and financially, they wanted.

I hope you don't need to go this thing alone. Who is your Committee Chair? Do you have a Pack Committee?

Your DE sounds like a real gogetter. He helped you found the Pack, yes? Kindly remind him that , ultimately, "it's about the kids".

You do need to find a few more allies, in the city council, the VFW and in the community at large. Volunteer Fire Dept.? Lions Club? Local church?

Front page coverage? you got media connections? Use them. But veer to the side of NOT embarrassing folks. Work to show the good, fun stuff your Cubs are doing. Enlist the local hardware store and contractor to help fix up the Scout Cabin. Remind them of the great PR involved. Find the grown up Scouts out there. Use those school brochures again and recruit.

A Scout Cabin. Ummmm... Need Scouts. Boy Scouts, too, not just Cubs. Any chance of forming a BSTroop? Is there one already "around"?

Like real estate, you got "POE-TEN-SHUL". I hope and pray you can make the most of this most excellent opening you have been given.

Stay tuned...

Make it a history lesson as well. Cast around and find ( or buy for future use) to borrow a set of "historic " flags and perform a bit of a flag pageant. Let your talk be about the evolution of our flag. From "Don't Tread on Me" and the "Pine Tree" flag and the "Union Jack" flag to the 13 stars and 15 star and stripe (the Old Glory) flag, to the 38 star and 48 star flag, to the 50 Star. Which star is your state? Does that matter? Did the colors and design have any original symbolism? Has the symbolism changed? Is the "value" of the US flag innate, or does it depend on us and our perception of the ideals it represents?

When the old flags are to be 'retired', I hope you have a real campfire. Talk about the fires our GGGgrand parents gathered around and how they worked for the country we have today (not only in battle). I have seen this done to good effect: After the patiotic intro, the Scouts take the flag by it's corners and stretches it out between the fire and the audience. The light from the fire shines thru the flag. In one motion, they stretch the flag over the fire and throw the corners into the middle. Quick burn.

Next pair of Scouts step up, same routine. Do with each flag.

Sing some songs. Maybe a skit or two, if you can remember some that are not too unserious?

Have fun. Serve hot dogs before or after.

*sigh*

Search these many forums about CSDC... Use many variations. Lots of good ideas out here.

In the mean time, it might be a little late to sign up to go to Camp School (check with your DE or DD. You should be able to go on the Council dime...), but you need to get an immediate good working relationship with your Camp Director. The activities that the Cubs run around in and to depend on the two of you working together to get five days of 9 to 4 (or 3:30 or however your schedule is set) fun and memories. Archery, Nature, Scoutcraft, Fishing, BB gun, Virtual Campfire skits and songs and cheers, Crafts, Specials (fire trucks, guest wowsers, helicopters, trick ropers, be creative), whatever is available. Work the District Commissioner Corps and phones and Roundtables for Scouter staff and Scout Jr. staff. Staff skits at day opening help set the spirit of the day. Get a bull horn to save your voice.

Always remember, when asking for help, the words "Cub Scouts" can open many doors. Neighboring military camp? Community college? Hardware store? Police Medivac chopper? Construction Contractor?

KISMIF.

Let's clear up the confusion that happens every time this subject comes up. And yes, I realize all the following is paraphrased alot...

Totin' Chip::: Boy Scout award. Indicates the Boy Scout has learned and demonstrated that he can use and properly care for knife, axe, and saw safely and responsibly. The boy has "permission" to carry and use those tools at Scout activities. This previlege can be revoked if ...and here is where it gets muddy. Leader descretion and Unit tradition comes in.

Whittlin' Chit:: Cub Scout award. Indicates that the Bear or Webelos Cub Scout (NOT Tiger or Wolf) has learned and demonstrated that he can use ONLY a folding pocket knife safely and responsibly. I'd like to think that the W/C class also included safe and proper handling all other knives as well (cooking, etc.). The boy has "permission" WITH HIS PARENTS KNOWLEDGE AND PERMISSION, to carry and use a pocket knife at Cub Scout activities ONLY. AND AGAIN, this privelege can be revoked if...Same here, leader discretion and Unit tradition.

Chips and Chits. Teach'em and demonstrate how all the time. Boy, will they catch you if you don't say "thank you"! Or don't sweep a safety circle!. Insist on the best behavior and you are more likely to get it.

Safety first.

Call your Council office and ask to speak with the Program Director. She/he should be able to tell you the what/how and /when. `

As for opportunity, after the Council camp ranges, check to see if someone in your Pack/Troop/ friend circle is a member of Isaac Walton League. They often have air rifle range that Scouts can use with proper certification, membership, etc. Very often, IWL allows Cub Scout Day Camp on their land and the Cub Rangemaster uses their target range.

Be safe, and KISMIF.

"Cutting Corners" is definitely a unit affectation. Warnings, PLC meetings, SM and ASM judgements, I've heard of many different versions of Totin' Chip discipline. The standard should be safety first and mature behavior. Pocket knives falling out of pockets is a mishap. Wish I still had my uncles knife that fell out somewhere on the AT near Pine Knob Shelter. Leaving it on the table after use (folded up) is perhaps purposeful, but not a safety issue (it was folded up?). Waving a closed knife around to show off a birthday present (saw this one) warrants a warning and talk-to about Scout behavior, even if it was closed. Throwing knife target practice (heard about it) warrants instant T/C revocation.

The need , always, is to impress on the Scout during T/C (or, come to think about it, Whittlin' Chit with Cubs) training the importance to "respect the edge" and treat the tool with mature respect, not childish glee. That can lead to injury and regret.

If you have to revoke, don't forget to "debrief" and remind the Scout they may re-earn the T/C the next time around...

Here I was at a Cub Pack Pop Corn award ceremony. "Jeffrey sold umpteen tons of popcorn and he is awarded this POCKET KNIFE!!" (cheers). Jeffrey shakes the CM hand, takes the small box back to his table, opens it up and proceeds to unfold all the blades to show his dad and mom and Denmates. Starts to wave it round like a Starwars Tie Fighter. I walked over (yes, in the middle of the ceremony. I could see this going to a bad place. There were other awards to come!)and said "Jeffery? That's a fine knife. Can I show you how to handle this safely, please?" As the Pack UC, I was known had some clout. "Thank you. Here's how to close it right. See? No fingers missing!. Now, I think maybe dad should help you keep this sharp item safe and help show you how to use it , okay?" Dad looks at me and nods his head, silently saying 'thank you' as he takes the knife from me. Two weeks later, I had the Bears and Webelos in Mr. Jefferysdads rec room, teaching Whittlin' Chit. Gave the Dads copies of the W/C curriculum the District had developed and in a couple hours had eight Cubs reciting "respect the edge" and saying "thank you" everytime anything, much less a knife, was handed them.

T/C: SM or ASM teach the PLC and TG. TG or PL teach the Tenderfoots.

Beg pardon, ev, Ecclesiastes 10:NINETEEN.

Need less awake time...

I view FoS as a necessary evil, to help buy & maintain property, etc. hope it doesn't really pay salaries., but, as has been stated here abouts, oft times the DEs mention it wrongly and without aforethought.

" A feast is made for laughter and wine maketh merry: but money answereth all things."

Elllesiastes 10:11

SR540beaver: You and I may agree on the definition of a terrorist but some folks don"t:

"Homeland Security says Timothy McVeigh is not a Terrorist"

http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/homeland-security-says-timothy-mcveigh-isnt-a-terrorist-but-peace-activists-are/701/

*sigh*

In our neck of the woods, a Camporee is a Scout activity, laid out with Patrol events. There are no stand arounds, you camp, you participate. Cubs and Webelos may visit, with parent accompaniment, but that is very rare. Webelos Weekend is the other thing. Webelos are invited to the Webelos Weekend by Scout Troops that organize and run "stations" for the Webs to participate in. Webs come as guests of a particular Troop. If a Cub Pack Web Den wants to come, and they don't have a host Troop, they are assigned one. Instant recruitment!