SSScout

Adult beverages are just that: for adults. Whether the family approves of alcohol use is just that: up to the family. The state decides who may or may not drink beer, wine, whiskey in public venues and at what age. That said, alcohol use at Scout events attended by youth members is prohibited. See http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/HealthandSafety/GSS/gss04.aspx quote" ALCOHOL The following statement was approved by the National Executive Board of the Boy Scouts of America: It is the policy of the Boy Scouts of America that the use of alcoholic beverages and controlled substances is not permitted at encampments or activities on property owned and/or operated by the Boy Scouts of America, or at any activity involving participation of youth members." unquote I would first politely REMIND the Scout leaders of that unit of their responsibility and then contact the local Unit or District Commissioner. And then , enjoy your new unit and don't look back.

I retract my original request. We need a "Philosophy, Syllogism, Faith and Chaplaincy" forum. Bravo, Beavah.

Look at all the chappeau ads!!! Wonder how that happened? should we start talking about llamas again? Beav, didn't we go thru this about 3 years ago? "Hat courtesy". To wear or not to wear, and when, and where. The flag code is a "guide", and that is what most (if not all) courtesy/manners/ettiquete is, a guide to respectful,courteous behavior. A Scout is Courteous, now THERE is a SM minute topic! How does one slup soup, courteously? What to wear in a given situation? Uniform? Tie? T-shirt? Hold open a door? For a female/lady/woman/man/kid? How many kids do you come across that say "yessir" and "no ma'am", or do they say "yeah?" Take your shoes off at someone's house? Certainly, if that is THEIR way. Find "How to Be a Perfect Stranger" by Stuart Matlins and Arthur Magida. Recommend it.

Your world trotting Scout might consider a side trip to attend the Africa Scout Jamboree in Burundi: http://www.scout.org/en/around_the_world/africa WOSM stays busy.

Sad. I find Fred's comments to be very well thought. These folks just might be some that suffer from the >>Soccer Syndrome

"Oy, Like Chicken Soup, it couldn't hoit!"

From Washington Post,Sunday 18 December 2011, page B2: I. Christmas is the Most Important Christian Holiday II. There is Biblical Consensus on the Story of Jesus' Birth III. Jesus was an Only Child IV. The Secularization of Christmas is a Recent Phenomenon V. Midnight Mass is at Midnight http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/five-myths-about-christmas/2011/12/12/gIQAkR1VyO_story.html Yeah, answered by a Jesuit, but hey, bet you want to know... Go to it. And a Merry christ mass to you all.

Let us hope/pray (choose one) that Scouter Terry has found the end to his troubles (I do not know the specifics), and has found the time to tend to his wonderful website. It really would be appropriate to have a Faith and Chaplaincy forum (look at this series!), thus alleviating the load on the I&P and other forums. Everybody has occasions to note, celebrate, talk about, pass on to our progeny. Tell the story of Channakah, Jesus' birth, Bahai's revelation and imprisoment, Mohamad's story, your grandfather's trek across the Oregon Trail, whatever it is. It becomes incumbent on the government (here in the US, at least) to do just about nothing about it. If granddad was a wonderful man and helped build the community, it might be appropriate for the county council to vote a "thank you" resolution, but set up a display on the lawn of the courthouse? We erect statues and monuments to folks that are important in our history, and not just military people either, thankfully. ((if the general's horse has all legs on the ground, or if it has one leg up, or both front legs up, does that indicate anything special about the rider?)). Our faith is a special category of this dicussion. If we say "thank you" to grandfather, and he says "thank you" to God, well, here is our quandary. How to note grandfather's gratitude after his death? I think it it wonderful when the Houses of Worship in our area put up displays for their various holidays. We have a road, New Hampshire Ave., that is known locally as the "Avenue of Churches". It runs almost 30 miles from Washington DC thru Murlin, and it has almost every possible faith sitting along it's length: Hindu, Baptist, Unitarian, Evangelical, Methodist, Jewish, Orthodox (three kinds), Budhist (three kinds), Muslim, Catholic (at least two kinds), and if you go a mile or two or three to either side, you can find three Quaker meetings, a Zoroaster house(?), many Iglesias de Deos, a Bahai temple, Church of JC of LDS, and a few that slip my mind. Some celebrate, some do not their various Important Days. Displays range from none (note the Quakers) to live nativity scenes to walk thru Jeruselum market(no room at the Inn, sorry, keep moving please) to 12'x20' tall real flame Menorahs. One hispanic Catholic Church leads parades thru the local streets celebrating Christs birth and death and resurrection (legal permit allowed). Such is the richness of our nation. If the athiest among us want to join together and celebrate their lack of God, bully for them. I will still invite them to "come and see" at our Meeting, and sit in worship with us First Day. I see no need for any government to place a religious display on any public land. Holidays a good, any excuse for a party, I say, but at least around here, there is no need for the guvmint to remind the passing motorist of the time of year. That said, if you are in the neighborhood this First Day morning (sunday for you non-Friends), come around for our "live sheep" pageant. (very untraditional).

Motorcycling in cold weather.... ha, there's the memories... Wind proof, covering wool and insulation. TOP: Sweaters, down vest, Baxter State Parka, Sperry Topsider hip-long yellow slicker. BOTTOM: Wool socks, over-ankle boots, long pants and then my overpants: Take the biggest blue jeans you can buy (I got 52" waist by 36" long) to pull over normal pants and boots. Put'em on, sit down (bend knees) and mark where knees are on pulled tight legs. Cut Ensolite 1/2" closed cell foam to fit inside pants where knees will be. Clip edges of the foam so it will 'fold' over your knee neatly. Sew and tape Ensolite into pantlegs. Add suspenders to pants as appropriate. Note that now your knees are never cold, legs are much warmer. And, you can partially disrobe at your destination without embarrassment. I still have mine after 20 plus years and wear'em for snow shoveling, etc. Next choice, go to your Surplus store and seek out German Wehrmarkt winter hosen. Double wool, plastic sheeting, multi pockets, really nice. Hard to find.

Aw, come on, Base, don't make this so complicated. You did the course, you learned something, even if it is what NOT to do. You made some friends, or at least impressed the TG. So, after I completed the tickets, I called my TG and he arranged with the CD/WBSM to be present at my Troops next CoH. I called the Scout doing the MC duties (communication MB) and he put me on the program as "Special Presentation", as no one in the Troop really knew what "Wood Badge" was. So my TG and WBSM came, and they spoke about the tradition and BP and such. They led me in singing Gilwell, draped the necker, woggle and beads on me and then we ate cupcakes and drank Canada Dry. Done. When my good friend TM finished his tickets, he arranged for his "beading" at the District Award Dinner (not my District, all new folks), as he was also being named the District Chaplain. I went, ate overdone pasta, visited with TM and his friends, and then he told me he wanted me to bead him. I felt very honored. There were several folks being beaded, so when TM went up, all the other WBers stood and sang Gilwell and I did my best not to embarrass my friend with my draping and woggling. Base, show the folks you love and work for how it is. I am sure the TG will tell you that a B&G is an excellent place to celebrate your accomplishment. I bet he would be the first to say, yeah let the Webelos hang the necker on you. I even bet, if you ask him, he'll tell you he likes overdone pasta.

I tend to agree with Seattle. I recently received the email, both from National and Council. I certainly am an "alumnus", and am already registered and get email and (joy) realmail from national and council and District and troop. So I have no need to be MORE connected. Let this be a means to bring folks with Scout experience back in to the work of the game with a purpose. Then too, if they figure it out, they can be a help (1) without registering as a Adult Scouter. I know many such in our home Troop; and (2) by registering normally, for $15 save some bucks and get the same newsletters and magazines, all good. I don't see it as a fundraiser so much as an invitation to get even more involved, and you know that one takes more seriously that which one spends money on.

Of course he wants the beads. They're already paid for, aren't they? Now, our home schooled Scoutson is saying the graduation ceremony put on by our academic oversight organization isn't important to him. It is to his mom and dad. And we know it may well be important to him later. He worked for that diploma, he earned it, he (by his own admission) really learned some stuff along the way. Time to point to him and say "waytogo!" , at least once. He says he doesn't know any of the people that will be at it. Not true. Going to be more than a couple of very proud folks there. And a few other students he's met along the way at various activities. Same for you, BD. Do it for them Scouts and other folks that see you as an example, too, if not only for yourself. Mark the occasion, if only with a verse of Gilwell. Then go out and be an even gaddier fly. Or something.

Of course he wants the beads. They're already paid for, aren't they? Now, our home schooled Scoutson is saying the graduation ceremony put on by our academic oversight organization isn't important to him. It is to his mom and dad. And we know it may well be important to him later. He worked for that diploma, he earned it, he (by his own admission) really learned some stuff along the way. Time to point to him and say "waytogo!" , at least once. He says he doesn't know any of the people that will be at it. Not true. Going to be more than a couple of very proud folks there. And a few other students he's met along the way at various activities. Same for you, BD. Do it for them Scouts and other folks that see you as an example, too, if not only for yourself. Mark the occasion, if only with a verse of Gilwell. Then go out and be an even gaddier fly. Or something.

""So what am I missing, beside not delving more in depth on the Webelos side of things?"" Find a 1950's vintage FieldBook, written mostly by GBBill. Use it for copy on: I. Fire safety and building: add the Fireman's Chit requirements and the (our!) FIVE FIRE requirements : (1) The Means to Extinguish the fire. Water, shovel, sand, etc. (2) A Clear Area: 10' in diameter, clear overhead,, consider LNT needs for later. (3) Clear Air. Not merely OXYGEN, but can you see? This means PERMISSION, is it allowed by your area? Fire danger? Park rules? (4) Fuel: Gathered BEFORE you set the fire. Tinder (fritos, drier lint, wax egg cartons, pine cones?), kindling, big stuff, but no larger than you need. A cooking fire is not a signal fire is not a "Campfire" for skits. Oak vs Pine, etc. (5) Means of ignition: Matches, flint and steel (have you practiced it?), fire piston, etc. Demonstrate the flammability of various things (nascent SMs are often ignorant of such things and appreciate the demos): Hand cleaner, tent nylon, various types of tinder, I tell the story of my friend who tried to pack the maximum number of matches into his match safe and had it explode in his hand. Waterproof matches in wax, most anything about camp fires. II. Woods Tools. Do the Whitlin' Chip and Toten Chip. Again, provide copy of the requirements (online is available) and F/B pages, if available. Note that the "requirements" are not "good use" necessarily. Tradition here, is the guide, I find. Clipping the W/C or T/C card for poor use, must reearn it. . Troops do Packs a great favor by offering to teach W/C to the older Cubs. And the knife skills in T/C ARE W/C. Again, the photos in the old F/B are superior to our present HB, IMO. Knife and axe and saw handling and care. Many new SMs have never handled anything more than a dinner knife. Find an old time carpenter that can demo hatchet and saw care. Talk about split handles, how the grain of a wood handle will split if the handle is poorly carved and the grain direction is not taken into consideration. Felling axe, vs hatchet vs Double bit axe, camp saw vs big cross cut vs carpenter saw. Keep out of dirt. Oil it. etc. Teach pride in good tool use, not merely "passing the test". Does EVERY Scout need to carry a full size felling axe to Philmont? Is the Big Sheath Knife allowed? (no official prohibition from Irving), but why carry one? Sharpening is a personal thing. Ask 5 Scouters how to sharpen and hone a knife, you'll hear 6 ways to do it. Choose and teach ONE, stick to it. III. Plant and Animal ID: Tracks, scat, gnawed acorns, antler rub, fur on bark, holes in ground and tree trunks, nests, bird songs, animal noises. Get'em to SEE not merely look, HEAR not merely listen. Leaf shape, bark type, tree shape (singleton vs forest), use of the plant, recommend guides and pamphlets on local stuff (provide? sell?) I like the idea of compass & map to their campsite. And to the other Patrols sites. Go get lost for a while in the woods. I will be visiting daughter down in Hillsborough later this month. Smile and wave as you go by... YiS

How 'bout this: We teach our kids arithmetic and math. As they get older, we (attempt!) to teach them more advanced , complicated math. We don't expect all of them to be mathematicians. We teach them all how to run. In fact, we insist that they do PE, and run and tumble and play touch football and practice shuttle ball and such. We don't expect them to all become Jesse Owens or Shaq . We teach our kids history in the hope that they will learn the lessons there, so as not to make the same mistakes their grandparents made. And We don't expect them to remember everything, and they don't. We teach them science . Chemistry, electricity, magnatism, physics, and yet we aren't surprised when only a few of them become NASA engineers or build bridges to make our travel easier or build solar power plants to charge our Prius'. Somewhere along the way, some of our kids become aware that they enjoy and have a "talent" for ,what? fixing plumbing? Farming? Truckdriving? And if they are very fortunate, they find their "passion" early rather than later. Why then should we not teach them HOW to be a leader, since we all know what an effective leader is like? The observations and science has been done and recorded. Should we be surprised to find that leadership is also an innate talent, not always evident in all people? I think it is called the "Peter Priciple". Folks rise, in a social hierarchy, to their level of incompetance. Or they recognize where they are most effective, and do not attempt to be promoted further. I do know we have alot of BOTH out of work competant folks, AND alot of really questionable folks in postions of responsibility. 'Nuff said. But along with the techniques and skills of effective leadership, there needs to be taught (and exampled) WHAT to lead , toward what cause? or reason? In our case, we need to teach leadership by EXAMPLE, by INSTRUCTION and then GIVE'M a chance.

Demonstrating and "lecturing" have to go along together. The modeling of Patrol Behavior is often not mentioned in the IOLS manual, but is a Trainer/philosophy thing, I find. I have been a trainer on several IOLS courses, different leaders, and I do adjust to their attitudes. The best , IMHO, lead by example, and try to encourage the trainees to see themselves as a Patrol. They are organized into Patrols at the indoor sessions of SMS,encouraged to communicate BEFORE they get to the IOLS site, and then on site, expected to communicate and operate together for cooking, fire wood, sanitation stuff, everything. We have Patrol competitions(knot tying speed, lashing poles to get an object out of reach, finding a compass bearing and the "treasure", and when the weekend is over, my SM presents Patrol Awards. We have a very Scout friendly place to train. Big open field, fire ring, big open pavilion, and a barn to use if the weather is really bad. October last, we wrapped the pavilion with tarps and held forth thru a rain and sleet storm. Find dry wood by splitting open wet logs? Build a fire in rain and wind? did that. Hike thru the woods pointing out animal sign. Not just Look, but See. Not just Listen, but Hear. Another time, one IOLS organizer told me they expected the trainees to "earn" their Toten'Chip. She had the patches ready to present them! When I protested that adults may not wear youth awards, she said it was important for the men/women to have the "whole" experience. And then wanted me to do the Wood's Tools portion in 1/2 hour. I said no, I need at least an hour, which was grudgingly scheduled. She did not do Patrols, only individual camping. Sound familiar? Her cooking was in BIG charcoal, AL foil dinners, luaau style. I thought it was very clever, but us staff set out the charcoal, we laid the fires, not them. Again, get the old timers to do the show and tell, model the Patrol method, and let the trainees ACT like Scouts , as much as possible.

"What we have he-ah, is a fail-yah, to cummunikate..." I have to agree with much that Scoutnut noted. CM does her thing, CC does hers, and the Committee backs up the Pack. If the Treasurer is keeping an honest, open accounting, and the CC is holding meeetings, and the boys (the BOYS) are having fun, and being Scouts, then I would counsel working with her and , as 5year suggests, HELP her to work toward the continuance of the Pack. Be appreciative of her efforts at organizing things, be open in your communicating about YOUR plans and acknowledging HER plans. If you cannot agree to a particular idea or plan or activity, then gently explain how and work toward a version that she can accept. As to the Pack meeting interuptions, I find in my sub teaching gigs that I have to be directive. When I am explaining the triangle project and a child speaks up that her brother went to the hospital last night, I gently say I am sorry to hear that, and we will talk about that after the lesson. And I do. As Pack Ringmaster, you need to smilingly thank her for the reminder of the need to fax something somewhere and then ignore the irrelavant interruption. Sometimes I will POINT at the child and say "Irrelavant!" and then ask them a particular question about our activity. Stay in command in your baillywick! Politely! Smilelingly! The CC is, after all, filling a role you needed, and seems to be doing it, if not diplomatically and caringly, at least in a way to make folks less than complacent! That can be seen as a good thing, for what it is. Rechartering: You sound as if you are not familiar with it, but acknowledge the need for the process. It similarly sounds like the CC is very familiar with the process. Let her do it! And make your admiration and gratitude be expressed! Assuming all goes well... Your CC seems to be the sort that will grudgingly admit that SOMETIMES some folks won't agree with her, and (to her mind) oh well, I guess that's just too bad for them (note the reaction you related about the parade timing...). Don't take it so persnally, she sees the rest of the world the same way, I am sure. Do the parade, take pictures, show them at the next meeting and then move on. You must be doing something right, or the Pack would not be so attractive to people. Take pride in that, just widen your embrace to include her, despite her reticence to be included.

Schedule two courses: One traditional :Friday eve (crackerbarrel, early setup) then All day Saturday and Sunday thru lunch. Include a "Scout's Own " discussion, and, if appropriate, a model SO. One "Sabbath friendly" course: Saturday eve (crackerbarrel and early setup) thru Sunday dinner/campfire and (if possible) monday morn thru lunch. This allows various faiths to participate w/o violating their precepts. Also, try to allow for other various necesities. Speak with LDS folks about their requirements and how you can accomodate them. Try HARD not to do it in ONE DAY, which was attempted here, but did not seem to be as successful, except in letting folks "do it" in ONE DAY. This was a Early Saturday thru Late Saturday night and go home session (no overnight!). Try not to cover too much in too short a time. Schedule things in a logical way : Knife and Axe,,FIre Safety and building, planning the campfire program, and THEN hold the campfire. Not as was done once, Campfire program on Saturday night, then Fire safety and knife and Axe on Sunday. Huh? Ask around for the old timers that know how to fell a tree and use flint and steel. Try not to just do it from the book. They can ALWAYS read the book. Start a fire with Fritos. Give them 3 ring binders and USEFUL stuff to put in them: Reprints from the 1948 Fieldbook on Knife and Axe and Some pages on Tree IDing. Recommend some guidebooks on animal ID and plant ID, even offer some for sale (bought in bulk, publishers will give you a discount for BSA, just ask). Contact your local District/COuncil BSA Chaplain about the "Scout's Own discussion. Maybe you might run into someone who served at the NatJambo in that capacity. Develope a IOLS staff for the future.... Tent as much as you can, use a shelter, but eat hearty.... YiS

Capitalism vs anyother type of econ system... The banks (define?) do what they are suppose to do: Maximize their profits for the stockholders/owners by doing banking things, and "by the book" ultimately. The bank folks do what they are good at: Being creative in "playing the game" . Eventually, the realities of the world (if someone wins, that means alot of other folks have to lose....remember that WB game-that-shall-remain-nameless?) interfere, and the banks come close to failing. Oh, the CEOS and such don't fail, the BANK does... In order to prevent a whole lot of other folks from starving and being homeless, the government creates programs that will "save the banks that are too big to fail", by loaning them money (created by selling government bonds) at REALLY low interest rates (nearly none). The banks, out of the goodness of their hearts (no doubt), loan the money BACK to the government at MARKET rates, (buying more Tbills?)and (surprise!) make alot of profit for their owners. GUESS WHO ultimately PAYS THE MARKET INTEREST RATES ? Is the euro trouble any different?

Thank you! Consider it passed on...

For everyother activity, one needs: 1) Trained, capable leaders to TEACH and OVERSEE the Scouts safe, responsible behavior that follows the Sweet Sixteen and the Scout Promise and Law (Courteous, kind...) 2) A designated, dedicated LARGE ENOUGH area. You're not going to see archery happening just anywhere? Waterfront and lifeguards? 3) Well maintained equipment. Frayed bow strings? Rusty .22 barrels? 4) Ummmm... What did I forget? These new activities will need all the above and more. They will take up space, time and pelf. But we are beyond the days of merely making presentations with markers on newsprint pads on an easle . We use and teach with modern implements, but also remember to use the old style stuff too. Woodfire and propane stove. Candle (flint and steel) and LEDs. Oars and jet compressors. Feet, backpack and 2 stroke. We do have to keep up, just don't forget to teach what to do when the power goes out...

Big, 2" safety pins. Stainless steel, won't rust, wash and wear...

When/if the boy leaves the Troop, give him his plank. Lots of good use for velcro© here. Name, Scout rank (sticker), miniature shoulder patch picture. When he leaves/graduates from Troop, give him his plank with the rank and PoR attached. Laminated cardboard picture of PoR, velcro to fuzzy board for arranging, maybe plexi over it to avoid idle hands from becoming devil's playthings? Good P/R at CO, too.

What is the way to help a Scout whose family is hard up in these times? How can he (his family?) pay his fairly established dues? Troop allows free ride? Ask local service club to help? Pass the Scout hat? Does the Council have a "scoutship" program? I have been told that some GSUSA councils have such a thing. Does BSA? Ask family to pay as they can? So much per month? I can remember when the dues were collected weekly at the Patrol meetings... History/nostalgia not appropriate? Insist that the Scout participate fully in the fundraising program and apply more than the usual share amount to his dues? What if the Scout has some difficulties emptionally/intellectually and the family really sees Scouting as a plus in his life, but those problems make it difficult for the Scout to fully participate? Thoughts? Experience? Thanks in advance...

As has been said, this is "one more arrow in the quiver". Same arguments might be heard about the Council Camps that offer ocean going yawls or rock climbing as a regular activity (not just a "special"). Now, I might wonder if Polaris or Yamaha might be thinking, here's a way to introduce future ATV purchasers to the sport. Oh, wait. We have a National Jamboree site that will have rock climbing and WWRafting as side lines. Mebbe a motor trail too? Ah! I got it... figure eight racing in dad's old Nova....