SR540Beaver

Well, as pointed out numerous times in numerous threads, the G2SS is a guide except where it is bold type and then it is BSA policy and rule. From the G2SS: BSA Rules and Policies Bold type throughout the Guide to Safe Scouting denotes BSA rules and policies. http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/HealthandSafety/Resources/Guidetosafescouting.aspx That would be "rules and policies" as oppossed to "guidelines". Yarrrr!

Basementdweller, Just out of curiousity, did you go into it with any positive expectations or an open mind? Not saying you didn't, but that your comments are totally foreign to the experience everyone I've ever talked to had including myself. How did your patrol mates and fellow participants view your course?

BadenP: "the Eagle Scout rank while it may be quite an achievement as a youth is not relevant to the qualifications for any position nor can it EVER be used as an advantage or reason to favor one applicant over another, as this would be a violation of state and federal labor law." Sure it can. I've been in the work force for 30+ years and worked for a number of companies and married to an HR person as well. I don't recall ever being told WHY I was hired. I assumed it was because the person doing the hiring thought I was the best candate for the job. It could have been because of my devilishly handsome looks for all I know. Violations of federal and state law would be items such as race, gender, relgion, age, etc. Proving that you were or were not hired for one of those reasons is hard to do without an admisson by the person doing the hiring. The fact that you were an Eagle Scout, former military, attended a certain university or have blue eyes, blond hair and legs up to there might be the tipping point for the person doing the hiring.

E, Do a search on "how to build a horno oven". These are the traditional adobe clay ovens built and used by the Navajo and Hopi. Here is a good site. http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles/hooker57.html(This message has been edited by sr540beaver)

Among my 7 or 8 shirts, I have one of the nylon shirts. Unless you are at something like the aformentioned Jambo where you sweat TOO much for the short to keep up, it "should" evaporate quicker than the cotton/poly blend. My problem is that nylon against my skin tends to feel hot and make me sweat even more. There is a joke in my troop about me wearing rain gear. When I pull it off, I look like I went swimming in my clothes. It keeps the rain off of me, but I get so hot in the darn stuff that I sweat buckets.

OTN, That salt ring on the hat is a badge of honor. Even if you're not, it looks like you've been really busy doing something. Wear it proudly.

I don't think it's the shirt.....but then I sweat in any shirt I wear. I can and have literally sweat in a snowstorm. I started wearing v-nech undershirts many, many moons ago when I got into the workforce and had to wear a suit and tie. Nothing like walking into a meeting with the big wigs and having wet spots all over your shirt. For me, it wasn't just underarms. Today, I wear an underarmour shirt under my uniform shirt because it wicks moisture and evaporates. If I'm somewhere like Jamboree where the heat and humidity are both near 100, I just expect to stay wet until the middle of the night where I get a couple of hours to dry out.

Eagle Scout and college applications. As I've recently noted in numerous threads, my Eagle just aged out a couple of weeks ago. He is a senior in high school and will be attending college next year. On his college applications and scholarship applications, he has listed Eagle as one of his accomplishments. Now, if it has somehow made a difference, I don't know how to determine that. I have a feeling that his being an honor student with a 4.15 GPA and a 29 on the ACT had much more to do with being accepted into the Honors College at the university he finally decided on and the scholarship they offered him. (He gets it from his mom, trust me!) Did the Eagle tip him over the line over another applicant? Possibly, but I have no way of knowing. I just don't know that it carries the weight that some claim. Still, it never looks bad on your applications.(This message has been edited by sr540beaver)

Maybe I was lucky, I'm not sure. My wife was constantly asking my son and I, "don't you guys have a campout this weekend"? She was always trying to get rid of us and have the house to herself. I've known two scouters whose wives were jealous of the time they spent on scouting......and admittedly, it was a lot of time. One finally quit, but it was mainly because after going all the way thru Cubs and a year of Boy Scouts, his son said that scouting was cutting into his skateboarding. Seems he had grand plans of growing up to be a professional sponsored sk8er. The other guy was single and was a scouting powerhouse in his unit, district and council. His girlfriend knew what she was getting herself into when they were dating, but the wedding ring made all the difference. She wanted him out, end of story. He is still registered I believe, but not around much. I'm with Barry on the compromise thing. In a healthy relationship, there should be a way to come to a compromise. And I am actually lucky. Neither my wife or I have ever denied each other the pursuit of the things we were individually interested in.

outty

Alps Mountaineering is a decent choice. I've used the same Coleman since about 2004. Last year our troop was forced to camp on top of a hill at a Spring Webelos Woods. It is just a tad windy in Oklahoma in the spring. My Coleman bit the dust as I didn't have it guyed properly for the amount of wind. It actually ripped up during the night. I kept wondering why the tent was slapping me every few minutes while I attempted to sleep on my cot. Our Jamboree gear chairman researched a lot of affordable options and we finally decided on a 10x10 Alps. They worked great for the period of time we were there. Since I was in the market for a new tent, I bought one if the "used" tents and have been pleased with it so far. Alps isn't an old company, but they have been around long enough to move into backpacks, self inflating pads, sleeping bags, etc. Our troop does high adventure trips each year, many to Philmont and many of the boys and adults have used Alps backpacks and really like them. http://www.alpsmountaineering.com/tents

TwoCub, In general I don't disagree with you. To me personally, there is a difference between the kid who is active in scouting and letting time slip by and the kid who recharters every year, but never shows up. The first kid I'll causually ask in the hallway at a meeting if he has come up with a project yet or ask how many MB's does he have left and ask when he turns 18. Little reminders that he needs to manage his time. The kid who is never there, I can't do that....and I'm not calling him at home to remind him if he can't be bothered to participate. Too many kids grow up these days with a sense of entitlement and I really don't think anyone is entitled to Eagle beyond the boys who commit themselves to puuting all their scouting skills, knowledge and leadership abilities to work earning it. While I'll help any boy at any stage, for those kids, I'll bend over backwards.

I'm glad I popped in here and saw the discussion on Scouter Reserve. My son just aged out and we have a couple more boys aging out who want to maintain their registration in scouting. They have been filling out adult registration forms with the troop using the scouter reserve code. To my knowledge, no one has come back and said it is a district registration rather than a unit registration.

Eagle92, Not to go off topic, but supposedly in my district/chapter (before my time) they did a mass crossover. Man, would I love to see that. You set a date and time at the local council property and all the troops and packs show up and you cross everyone at one big outdoor ceremony. Cake and ice cream for everyone afterwards. This helps get the packs on a common schedule of crossing over Webelos and allows troops to kick off their new scout program on a certain date without stragglers coming in over a three month period.

Question, should we be tracking what they have left to do for Eagle and keeping them informed as well as their parents? Especially kids over 16? I have no problem with tracking advancment in TroopMaster or some other method or having a Life to Eagle coordinator. But at some point in the process, a real Eagle candidate needs to own the process. Holding an 11 year old Tenderfoots hand is one thing, holding a 17.75 year old Life Scouts hand is a whole different matter. Other than my son completing his final Eagle board on 12/14/10 with his 18th birthday being 02/26/11, I'm kind of removed from our troop's eagle process. We have other folks who do that. I never wooried too much as my son was at every meeting and as many campouts as his job would allow up until he turned 18 and now beyond. He made Life at 14 and knew what he needed to do for Eagle. I think he was having too much fun in his troop and OA POR's, staffing camp and doing high adventure to be bothered.....and he wanted to make the old man sweat. It is cases like his where the SM or someone else starts dropping hints and making suggestions. The 17 year olds who are still registered but haven't darkened the door but maybe once a quarter since turning 14, we don't go out of our way to make sure they Eagle. They've made their decisions and they need to want to. If they pop back in with the desire, our SM and L2E coordinator are willing to work with them, but they have to put forth the effort. They will even grease the skids a little if there isn't time for a 6 month POR. The SM may work with the SPL to give him an assignment of serving as an instructor for X sessions and an expecation that he will attend all meetings and campouts between now and turning 18. Some boys accpet the conditions and knuckle under, some don't. Like I said further up the post, at some point the boy has to be willing to own part of the process. If we see that, we are much more willing to assist as best we can. To my knowledge, our SM has rarely ever called it quits. I could see him doing that if a kid comes in two months away from his 18th birthday and has 10 MB's including the 90 day tracking MB's, his project to plan, get approved and do and a 6 month POR. At that point you have to be honest with them and say it is impossible to do. Don't forget the Camping merit badge with it's nights of camping. I talked about it on another thread and whether you start counting nights when a boy gets approved to do the MB or if you can count nights camped before that. Our SM and our Camping MBC in our troop count them after you begin. This is known in our troop and is a surprise to no one. You are not forced to use our MBC. We have a 16 year old on again, off again scout who keeps showing up for meetings about once a month. He is trying to convince the MBC's for his unfinished MB's to give him a pass so he can get Eagle. He won't take a POR, he won't go on campouts, he won't sit with his patrol at meeetings when he does come because he is busy lobbying MBC's. No one is cutting him any slack and while they might be willing to fudge and count previous nights camping, his unwillingness to do the right thing is working against him. He still has at least a year and a half before he ages out.(This message has been edited by sr540beaver)

perdidochas: "I would love an official boony style hat. I can't for the life of me figure out why anybody would want knee socks, but I'm glad for you guys that they have them now." Knee socks rock! I know most kids won't wear them, but some of our hardcore scouts who staff camp do and wear them as a badge of honor almost. Now, boonie hats on the other hand are one of the most gawd awful looking hats in the world.....to me. In 2005, our Jambo contingent had ballcaps they were proud of. In 2010, a lady high up on the Jambo committee wanted boonie hats for the Troops because her husband had just had some cancer spots cut off of his ears and head. I warned them that the boys would not wear them. They bought them anyway. We get to DC where we want the boys looking all nice and uniform with the unique hats so we cam pick them out of the crowds of thousands and all we got were moans and groans. They wore them hanging around their nect the whole time. When they got to Jambo, they all switched to their Jambo ball caps. Me, I continued to wear my boonie because I'm an old fart who doesn't care as much about style as I used to and I do worry about cancer. BTW, knee socks are high fashion and did I mention, they rock!

I'm a Chapter Adviser and we do crossover ceremonies for the Webelos Dens that request them. We have 31 packs in our district and we have fulfilled 9 requests. 5 of those ceremonies were in an 8 day period. The district committee wanted to advertise the crossovers we provide and I asked them not to. We can't handle 30 crossovers in February and March. Right now I prefer to keep it word of mouth. This all happens before the ceremony team even begins working on actual OA ceremonies and I certainly don't want ot burn my team out before we need them to support the Lodge. We also provide service to the camps that the Cubs use. A good number of our Arrowmen serve on Day Camp and Cub Resident Camp staffs. Cubs are the future of Boy Scouts. Without Boy Scouts, there is no OA.

SP, The camping merit badge nights of camping is one of those "in the eye of the beholder" things. When I was a newly mented ASM in another troop, I thought the same thing that a boy could count previous nights camping. Then in 2005 I went as an ASM to Jambo. The guy who was our Jambo SM is an engineer and as such, he has a very ordered, analyetical mind and applies logic to everything. It can be quite annoying when he is trying to divide food up on a backpacking trip. His personal approach for all the MB's he has taught is that the requirements of the MB begin when you start the MB, not before. To him, this applies to all MB's and not just some. Like my example of the Joournalism MB and my son. He has never taken the MB, but he has been on the school newspaper staff for 4 years. Should he get automatic credit for all the requirements or would he be expected to do them to the satisfaction of the MBC after he signs up for the MB? If he kas to do them for that MB, why wouldn't he have to do it for any of the others? We eventually moved to this SM's troop and we've been there since late 2005. So the environment WE come from says MB requirements are done after you sign up, not before and we've accepted it. Now, can a kid from our troop shop around and find a different MBC who allows previous nights camping? Sure. Will the SM explain his logic to the boy beforehand? Yep, but he won't stop him. Me, I prefer that they do the requirements after they sign up because it just makes sense to me. MB's shouldn't be an obstacle, but they shouldn't be check off lists either. They serve a purpose of education and adult association. But I can accept the nights camping thing whichever way a particular MBC wants to go.

evry, I'd have to say no. The requirement reads: 6.While a Star Scout, use the EDGE method to teach a younger Scout the skills from ONE of the following six choices, so that he is prepared to pass those requirements to his unit leaders satisfaction. a. Second Class7a and 7c (first aid) b. Second Class1a (outdoor skills) c. Second Class3c, 3d, 3e, and 3f (cooking/camping) d. First Class8a, 8b, 8c, and 8d (first aid) e. First Class1, 7a, and 7b (outdoor skills) f. First Class4a, 4b, and 4d (cooking/camping) The reason I'd say no is that the younger Scout referenced in the requirement seems to be a Boy Scout working on Second or First Class rank. I realize it doesn't specify Boy Scout or their rank or SM or ASM, but in my mind it is implied. Your mileage my vary.

Here in Oklahoma which is largely Protestant, you just don't see that many closed units. By closed units, I mean open only to the youth of the church. In my district, we do have two Catholic units that are extremely small and there were three LDS units that have combined into one unit due to small numbers. Unless a closed unit comes from a large church with heavy support, I just don't see them growing much. I'm Southern Baptist and for whatever reason there may be, you can't get a Baptist Church in Oklahoma to charter a scout unit. It just ain't happening. The Methodist Churches on the other hand all have units and they are open membership. The scout unit should be viewed as an outreach arm of the charter to bring in new people, not just a service to charter members. We recruit from every pack in the district and have kids from all walks of life in our troop of 60. We have a South American transplant, two black kids, one Jewish kid, we had a Muslim kid who hasn't been around for a while, Catholics, every variety of Protestant, wealthy kids and not so wealthy, etc. We have two families from the church who each have a scout and an adult registered and active with the troop. Until they joined, it was zero from the charter.

evry, We run into this with merit badges from time to time. A kid wants to do Camping merit badge at 15 and wants all the nights he camped since joinging scouts to count. While I understand why that makes sense to them, you do the requirements of a merit badge AFTER you sign up for the merit badge and your SM approves it. Otherwise, my son who has been on the school newspaper staff for school could simply get the SM to sign off on him taking the MB and then tell the counselor that he did al lthe requirements 3 years ago. The Webelos need to be real live bona fide Boy Scouts in the troop before you start signing off on requirements. There isn't any hurry, requirements are not a check off list to be completed as soon as possible. Prior to doing that 5 mile hike with a map and compass, they need to learn how to use a map and compass and how to properly hike. My experience working with groups of 15 or so new scouts per year for the last several years is that very few of them cross into a troop with the proper footware, socks or rain gear.

It's been a while since I looked, but I believe the model goes something like this. A CO decides that they would like to have a scout unit as part of their outreach and contacts the council who dispatched the DE to extoll the virutes of hosting a unit. Or, a DE makes calls on prospective CO's and extolls the virtues of having a scout unit as part of their community outreach. The CO goes about recruiting adult leadership who go about recruiting boys and a new unit is up and running and a wonderful relationship ensues and the DE keeps his job for adding another unit.....if he hits his FOS goal. How many have actually seen this happen on a regular basis? Me neither. Our pack had a strange arrangement. Our CO was a church who let the dens meet in an outdoor annex used for Sunday School. We could not however use their multi-purpose sanctuary/gym for pack meetings. We drew kids from three different schools and we rotated our monthly pack meetings between them. Two of the schools were good to deal with, one wasn't. They would forget to have the doors unlocked for us and always had complaints that the Cubs were going donw the hallways, into the rooms and tearing things up. Strange as we had adults posted at the door who wouldn't let it happen. Still, we go the blame. I served as CC and trying to track down the COR for adult application signatures and the IH for recharter was a feat unto itself. I ended up having to go to the church one Sunday morning to cathc the Pastor to get the recharter signed. There was no relationship beyond, "we provide you room to meet" despite our best efforts. The first troop we crossed to had a COR who was a long time scouter, a couple of Eagle Scout sons and his wife was a Council professional. Hands off. Within six months of joining the troop, the treasurer (SM's wife) literally threw books at the CC (one of us new parents) for "ruining their troop and trying to take over." A special meeting was called with the UC and the COR to iron out the issues. The COR's take was that he was offended that he got dragged int othis and he just wanted everyone to get along from this point forward. We left. We started a "Friends of Troop xxx" charter to keep our unwelcome kids in scouting. It feel to me to go in search of a charter. Evidently the DE had already hit his membership and FOS numbers, because he was no help. Once I found a CO willing to take us, the DE showed up for one meeting to get the paperwork signed. The CO was small and struggling as much as we were. They provided us room, we did some service projects for them, but they basically didn't want to be involved. It lasted about a year. The troop I'm in now has been at their CO for over 45 years. We have a strong troop and program. When I first joined in 2005, I don't believe we had and leaders or youth from the CO. We now do. The gentleman who has been our COR up until last week is a staff member who had the job assigned to him some years ago against his will. He has stated to others that he does not like children and he does not like scouting. While we do have supporters in the church and we do try to maintain a good relationship with them thru service projects and such, our COR has tried to make life difficult at every turn. Any time something gets broken, it was the scouts who did it. We meet in the basement and the boys know the upstairs are off limits. He complains all the time about scouts seen loitering upstairs in the dark. On occasion when the janitor doesn't come down and unlock the doors for us, the senior leadership will go looking for him. Ever so often he complains about our two trailers taking up "prime" parking spots in the parking loty and wants them relocated to the back of the property. The trailers are underneath a light in plain view of a major road and chained to the light post. When this item comes up, our SM and CC take an inventory of the trailers contents along with many news clipping of stolen trailers to the Church Board and show them what their insurance would be replacing if we moved the trailers to a dark parking lot behind the building. Each time the Board rubs their chin and decides to leave them where they are. To try to please the COR, we decided to move the trailers to the least two used spaces in the lot, but it required us to sink a big metal post in to the parking lot by the curb for us to chain the trailers to. The COR balked at that because, "it would endanger the children of the church". Do what? I honestly think he has been trying to build a case to get rid of us. He finally resigned last week after accusing a scout and his mother of stealing a stuffed animal from the prayer room. Our members leave thru an outside stair case from the basement. They don't exit thru the church. Thank the lord, the IH has stepped in temporarily to fill in as COR until they find someone else. He is very pro-Scouting. Perhaps things will turn around and the relationship will get better. lord knows the troop wants it to.

SeattlePioneer, Like I said, an Arrowman's first responsibility is to his unit. Once an Arrowman, always an Arrowman. As long as you are a dues paying member to your Lodge, you can wear your Lodge's flap. Most Cub Scouters won't have a Lodge flap unless they were OA as a youth like you. The flap alone will cause kids to ask what it is. Part of an Arrowman's responsibility to his unit is to promote camping and summer camp. As an Arrowman and a former Boy Scout, you have the skills and knowledge to camp. As Cubmaster, you are in a position to promote Pack and Webelos Den camping. You have a pretty good sized Council I believe. If they are anything like ours, they will have spring and fall Cub weekend camping programs as well as Cub/Webelos resident camp in the summer. Encourage your den leaders to promote it and attend. I know a good number of Packs that camp in addition to the Council provided opportunities. Instead of an indoor graduation in May, they do it at one of the Council properties and make it a one or two night campout. My comment about helping with crossovers is that some of the "shock" of camping and sleeping in a tent is alleviated if they begin camping as Cubs. Even though mom and dad do all the heavy lifting of setting up camp, they become accustomed to sleeping, eating and playing outdoors. Crossing over to a Boy Scout Troop doesn't become some big, scary, unknown thing. They look forward to getting to camp more and become skilled at it. This helps Troops get and retain Scouts. My home Troop is very good about reaching out to any Webelos Den in our district who wants to go camping. Oddly enough, my Troop makes up the bulk of the active boys in the OA Chapter (I'm Chapter Adviser) and many of our OA boys staff the Cub camps and daycamps.

Our troop does their annual planning in May. Well, it is usually on the calendar for May. I've seen it move to as late as July for one reason or another. It is helpful to us if the Council, District and OA Lodge schedules the same annual events for the same weekends each year so we kind of have something to hang our hat on. While I never see it actually happening, it would be great if the Council communicated a desired coordinated effort for planning. The commit to a certain date that they will have their annual calendar for the coming year created. Then they ask that the Districts have their calendar completed by a certain date. Both of these would be done well before the coming year so the Packs, Troops and Crews could then schedule their calendar accordingly. It isn't rocket surgery, but I just don't see it happening.

What DLister said. Pay your dues for the benefit of your Lodge program and get active when the time is right for you. Yoou first obligation as an Arrowman is to your unit. Promote camping in your pack. Far too many packs do NO camping and it has a real effect on the number of boys who will cross over.