shortridge

As a side note, one interesting thing my local Girl Scout council is doing is offering "starter kits" - you can order the appropriate vest, sash, beanie, flag patch, council strip, pins and books all in one bundle. Very convenient for new parents utterly confused by the array of stuff. I don't know if this is new or not, but it caught my attention. Buying a Boy Scout uniform now is kind of the same thing. You need the shirt, pants, belt, hat, council patch, troop numerals, patrol emblem, world crest, shoulder loops, necker, slide ... it's all more than a bit bewildering to newbies. Why not have the Scout Shop staff put it all together for a small convenience fee and make it easy?

BadenP, I'll let your own words stand for themselves. Sorry for taking this thread off-topic, anyone.

Nope, you're absolutely right. Have your CC and CM been trained yet? SSD training is online, so they can get up to speed quickly about what they need to do.

Gossip used to go over the backyard fence, now it is spammed out in e-mail at the speed of light... Hate to say this, Stosh, but you're out of date. E-mail is now old-school! Facebook messages and texting have replaced it among the younger crowds.

BadenP, You wrote about "a requirement for BSA council camps in order to get CERTIFIED before they can even hold a summer camp program." That's clearly not accurate, as I pointed out and you yourself just acknowledged. I certainly agree with you that not being up to standard is stupid. But camps don't have to be certified to open their doors to campers. Such a requirement would mean that all inspection teams across the country would have to descend on every camp in the 24-hour period that exists between the end of staff training week and the start of summer camp - because one of the standards is that the staff has to be trained. You can state your opinion all you want, but there's no need to cause confusion by mixing opinion with fact.

And that was fun! Can we do it again?

Since the G2SS's camping section says "Tiger Cubs may participate in boy-parent excursions, day camps, pack overnighters, or council-organized family camping," then I would apply the pack overnighter rules. However, the pack overnighter rules are slightly different from the family camping rules. Under family camping, you need that roughly 1:1 ratio. But pack overnighters can have one adult responsible for multiple Cubs, as long as the Cub reports to a specific adult. You could thus have parents who agree to be responsible for a friend's Cub, and get by with a smaller number of adults. So you'd need to decide if you're going to do this as a family camping trip or a pack overnighter. Personally, I'd strongly recommend that you have a parent attend for every boy, unless the boys are experienced family campers and have slept away from home several times before. The last thing you need to deal with is is an attack of the nighttime panics from someone else's kid who misses mom and dad and Rover and his own bed and his stuffed armadillo at 1 a.m. when you're 50 minutes from home. And don't forget there may be some dads or moms who like to tent camp and volunteer to set up outside the cabin, alleviating the space crunch.

1. I don't see a way to open an "overnighter" this facility up to female siblings, correct? Incorrect. In a family camping situation, female siblings are allowed, in general ... but it would be very difficult in your situation given the rooms you have available. The relevant rule in the G2SS is: "Single-room or dormitory-type accommodations for Scouting units: Adults and youth of the same gender may occupy dormitory or single-room accommodations, provided there is a minimum of two adults and four youth. A minimum of one of the adults is required to be youth-protection trained. Adults must establish separation barriers or privacy zones such as a temporary blanket or sheet walls in order to keep their sleeping area and dressing area separated from the youth area." So given the minimums (six people of the same gender), you'd have to put your mothers and sisters in the 10-person room, leaving room for only five fathers in the other "adult" room. You'd have to hang blankets or sheets up to separate the sisters' sleeping area from the moms'. You'd have to make sure there were at least four sisters attending.And you'd have to make sure that one mom is YP trained. You could get more fathers by putting them in the boys' room, but you'd have to hang temporary barriers and reduce the number of kids. I hope I'm understanding your question and situation correctly. Edited to add: Some more number-crunching. Given that family camping calls for one parent for every child (or children in the family), if you allow four sisters to attend (remember, that's the minimum you need), then the maximum number of adults you can get in the "adult rooms" is 11 (five dads, six moms). That means 11 Cubs in the main room, leaving 19 spaces. Rounding down to an even number (18), that means there are enough spaces remaining in the main room for nine more Cubs and nine more fathers. So you could have 20 Cubs maximum at this event. This formula changes, of course, if one family sends along a parent and 2-3 Cub siblings. Then you don't need as many adults. (I sure hope my math is right. I have a headache now.)(This message has been edited by shortridge)

I would disagree with moosetracker ... you can't prevent one of your Scouts from helping with the boy's Eagle project. If they do, more power to 'em. But the decisions of your individual boys is in no way a reflection on your decision as a troop not to allow this Scout to rejoin.

LOL! I always loved Cubmaster Socrates.

In a way, it is the CC's job to run the pack. He or she does the administrative side; the CM does the program side. More details about the policies, rules, etc., that the new CC is changing would be helpful. As far as communications goes, just because not everyone gets an e-mail message doesn't mean it's the sender's fault. Spam filters do funny things sometimes. A backup paper newsletter distributed at pack meetings with dates and information wouldn't cost a lot.

"Hey, that's great! Can you do me a favor tonight, Johnny, and go help Andre with his square knot? He was having a little trouble last week. Also, why don't you invite your neighbor on the hike this weekend? Thanks!"

This doesn't address your questions, but I think those categories are just silly. Making such broad generalizations helps no one. I've known quite a few Boomers who act just as selfish and entitled as the Millennials are supposed to be. I've known many Gen-Xers who were slackers as youth and became amazingly mature once they became parents.

Details about the Little Mermaid story: http://www.snopes.com/disney/films/mermaid.asp And on the salute, I'd just add that in my experience, even Cub Scout summer camp staffers - though they may be registered as Boy Scouts or on the council staff - use the two-fingered salute and sign.

I would talk to the Scout, away from his parents, and see what he wants to do. Lay the situation on the line. If he's going to be an Eagle, he's old enough and mature enough to understand the situation and your reluctance to welcome him with open arms. Then have a separate sit-down with both parents. I know you probably didn't mean it this way, but I was struck by the construction of one of your sentences: "the family ... has only been on one campout in a year and a half." I hear those chopper blades whirring ...

BadenP, There's semantics, and there's just plain inaccuracies. You wrote: "A summer camp experience with a dining hall option and recreational activities ONLY I do not think should qualify as the camping experience the OA is talking about..." Maybe, but it still qualifies, whether you want it to or not. Opinion is not fact. You wrote: "As far as camp certification is concerned every reputable council camp has to be sure that before they open the summer program they have met all the certification standards ahead of time in order to insure the safety of their staff and campers ..." Sure, they do, but that's not what you said. The camp does not have to be certified before it can start its camp season. ================ Let's look at the key phrase in question: "auspices and standards." Auspices: This clearly means that a Scout can't use family camping or a solo trek someplace to meet this eligibility standard. It has to be a Scouting activity. OK, simple enough. Standards: What standards are involved? As the OA advises you to, contact your local council camping team. The term "standards" in BSA parlance usually refers to the set of very strict criteria that council-run summer camps must meet. The OA clearly states: "The BSA does have very explicit standards for a resident Boy Scout camp, requiring much more than just a week long campout." It does not make sense to interpret "standards" as "I filed a tour permit for a week-long trek and an overworked council clerk stamped it approved, so we're running an official resident camp now." That's naive.

Addendum: What you reference is a requirement for BSA council camps in order to get CERTIFIED before they can even hold a summer camp program... Actually, no, it's not. Camps can open up and operate before the national inspectors come to make sure they're complying with the standards.

Look at the OA-BSA website again. The BSA does have very explicit standards for a resident Boy Scout camp, requiring much more than just a week long campout. Your local council camping people can provide more information on what the current standards are. That's what you need to do if you want to make sure your ducks are in a row. Simply filing a tour permit doesn't mean that your unit-run long-term camp is carried out by BSA standards. A tour permit is just that - it does not include blanket approval of everything you do on the trip or campout. Such a unit-run program, to qualify for the OA, must be "much more than just a week long campout." Some of the standards that your unit-run camp must meet may be included in the National Camp Standards guide. You need to contact your council to get the details. ===== BadenP wrote: "Council summer camp may not even qualify if the scouts don't cook their own meals or use their scouting skills, instead just using the recreational facilities like the waterfront, ropes course, shooting range, etc." Huh? I'm very confused. Are you saying that Scouts that go to a council summer camp and choose the dining hall option don't qualify for the OA? Or that Scouts who just go to a council summer camp and have fun don't qualify?

Don't want to put words in his mouth, but I think Beavah's "pick up the books & read 'em" comment was focused not on outdoor skills, but on learning how the BSA works. I'd have to agree. Most of what we need to know in that respect is written down someplace.

Everyone's heard the traditional campfire stories and epic poems - The Cremation of Sam McGee, the Tell-Tale Heart, Hiawatha, even Jabberwocky. What are your favorite campfire stories that no one else knows? Ghost tales, humor or mysteries? Do you prefer prose stories or ones that rhyme? Which ones are best for Cubs vs. Boy Scouts?

I can't speak for "most" camps, but in my experience, yes. The physician is usually a local Scouter who may be involved in interviewing the health officer candidates, meets with the health officer before the start of camp, may inspect the health lodge during camp, and may be called upon in emergencies or to consult. I would wager that most camps can't afford to hire a MD or DO full-time for the length of summer camp. In place of a physician, camp health officers may be nurses (RNs, LPNs or LVNs), physician assistants, medical students (second year or higher), paramedic, EMT or ARC first responder.

Kudu - And if that was the program in the U.S., I'd be all for it. But it's not. I'm all for increased competency and skills. But unilaterally declaring that you're not going to follow BSA policies & procedures is the wrong way to go.

Being prepared is so widely ignored these days that it's become a character trait of its own.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that it's meaningless, but it's not a physical by a medical professional. It's more an informal screening, not even a checkup. At my camp, it's conducted one-on-one (in plain sight but out of earshot) with the health officer and the Scout. The health officer (not generally a physician, who can give a physical, but an EMT or rough equivalent) asks about how the Scout is feeling, to ascertain if he might be sick coming to camp; reviews his health history to make sure there are no recent concussions or illnesses that might affect his activities in camp; and goes over any medications and when the Scout needs access to them. It's mainly for the education of the health officer, so he or she knows about any medical issues and can inform the staff (for example, so the Scoutcraft team can be aware if a hemophiliac Scout is taking Totin' Chip, just to be extra alert).

Wow, you're so different, the rules don't apply to you. I'll ask again: What gives a troop the authority to rescind a Scout's rank once earned? How do you plan on putting this policy in practice? Can any leader at any time just order a Scout to build a fire, and they are required to respond with "Sir, how hot, sir?" or else they get their badge ripped off their uniform?