shortridge

NJ, My memories match Eagle92's. I was a Cub in the late 80s, and we had yellow for Wolves, blue for bears and plaid-ish for Webelos.

Yeah, I'd agree that if you don't trust your Scouts enough, you need to ban cameras as well. And any iPod Touches, because the new type has a camera now. And laptops, many of which come equipped with webcams. (Don't laugh - I know several leaders who have brought laptops or netbooks to summer camp.) JerseyScout - Have you had a rash of sexting? Or inappropriate behavior with Scouts snapping photos of other Scouts showering or in the latrine? Or is this just a reaction to the national hysteria? Thanks for pointing out that link, BTW. I was looking at the G2SS - www.scouting.org/scoutsource/HealthandSafety/GSS/gss01.aspx - which makes no mention of digital devices or phones. Looks like National needs to get its publications synched up.

How many people really get hammered hard by the estate tax, anyway? Most of the people I know aren't inheriting huge amounts from their parents and grandparents. Maybe a house, a few acres of what's left of the family farm after being sold off in slivers over the years, perhaps a small storefront business that the youngsters don't have any interest in anyway. But not tons and tons of money.

Youth Protection bans the use of camera phones in certain situations as inapropriate pictures can be texted or uploaded to the Internet, but that's all I've found (and it may be it). Correction: The Guide to Safe Scouting includes no such ban. In fact, there's not a single word in the YP regulations about cell phones. Now, does the "respect for privacy" element require keeping camera phones out of the showers and changing areas? Of course. But there is no list of "certain situations" in which cell phones are banned. Nor is there any broader national regulation on the issue. It's up to the PLC to make that decision (it's not the troop committee's job, IMO).

Oak Tree wrote: The guide specifically lists the five knots that can *only* be earned by youth, but there are roughly seven other knots that can be earned by either youth or adults. My total count is 11: Arrow of Light, Eagle, Quartermaster, Venturing Silver, Heroism Award, Honor Medal, Medal of Merit, Hornaday, OA Distinguished Service Award, religious emblem, James E. West. Only earned by youth: AOL, Eagle, Quartermaster, Venturing Silver, youth religious emblem. Am I missing one?

< clap clap clap > One picture, worth a thousand neckerchiefs ...

... but the fact is that many of the boys will be distracted by her presence. Sounds like an argument for banning cheerleaders from football games.

Oh, c'mon ... for Pete's sake ... A camp t-shirt is not a step toward doing away with uniforms. It's just one form of what's known as the activity uniform or "Class B" - called "Special-Purpose Uniforms" on the National website. It's perfectly fine, and it's not some sneak trick by the CSE. "While the official uniform should be worn to all den and pack meetings and formal events, the den or pack may designate a special-purpose uniform, such as the Cub Scout Activity Shirt (shown here) to be worn in place of the official uniform shirt for certain activities, such as sporting events or day camp." - from http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/CubScouts/Uniform/special.aspx This has been practice at camps for years and years. Wearing one full "Class A" uniform day-in, day-out for a whole week (let alone a whole summer for staff) for everything from handicrafts to hiking, boating to BB guns, would quickly turn it into sweaty, grubby tatters.

I don't put any stock in National's stock photos. Recently saw a promotional ad with a Wolf who'd earned his Arrow of Light and was wearing it on the pocket, led by a den leader wearing Boy Scout green shoulder loops and a patrol medallion.

Our COR is and pack trainer insists it's a written rule that is be 32 degrees out ... If someone tells me that there's a rule - in Scouting or elsewhere - I ask them to show me where it's "written." They usually can't. That generally ends the debate.

In my state, there's a company that sells chicken excrement to other states. So, yeah, they'll find some folks to buy this commemorative dirt.

I understand how this -- Aftermath.. 1 scouter hospitalized, 1 scout hospitalized, and 4 scouts have to see the doctor for various ailments aquired during summer camp. Mainly from excessive chigger bites and not taking care of blisters that got infected and became very nasty. Did I mention one scout for shoes only brought flip-flops? -- could make you concerned. But any Scout who doesn't know how to take care of his own chigger bites and blisters needs a serious personal hygeine and personal first-aid refresher. And chigger bites will go away with time.

Just FYI, the logging issue was discussed previously when that report came out almost two years ago (January '09). http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=225964

So I could be just like Daniel Boone and Davy Crockett.

Leadership IS the main reason I have my son in boy scouts and why I encourage him to be in it. But is that the main reason your son is in Boy Scouts?

The genius of outdoor scouting... That phrase is redundant. There is no such thing as scouting without the outdoors.

Don't know that there's a policy against it, but it's not right. Would you allow other businesses to take over part of your troop or patrol meetings to pitch products to Scouts and their families? Are you prepared to turn your meetings into an hour-long commercial? Those are the questions your CC and COR need to be asking and informing the SM about the answer.

To reiterate and reinforce what Eagle92 said - make sure you advise your parents that the boys will likely have to do the swim test again the next time they go to camp, even if they have completed Aquanaut. Working on summer camp staff, I remember a bit of confusion among Webelos parents and DLs about that. Their position was that the Webelos were already Aquanauts and shouldn't have to take the test again; the camp's position was basically "Sorry, tough. Swim by our rules or stay in the nonswimmer's section."

Bart, More than one of the boys should have a whistle as part of his personal emergency kit. Make 'em mandatory. Problem solved. And part of the idea is that the patrols are camping independently - so it doesn't matter if you can see them or not. Background on the 300 feet rule: http://www.inquiry.net/patrol/traditional/100_yards.htm

BDPT100, From the GSUSA website: Girl Scouting builds girls of courage, confidence, and character, who make the world a better place. From the BSA website: The Boy Scouts of America is one of the nation's largest and most prominent values-based youth development organizations. The BSA provides a program for young people that builds character, trains them in the responsibilities of participating citizenship, and develops personal fitness. Both statements are equally full of mission-statement babble. Reading the Oath and Law or the Promise and Law won't get you much farther into understanding their "values." All are extremely vague. I suspect what you're driving at is the difference in two of the three Gs. Yes, BSA bars gays and atheists; Girl Scouts accepts them. No change since the last debate.(This message has been edited by shortridge)

Not at all an ignorant question! Good for you for putting safety first. Scout around (no pun intended) - find one of your den or pack families or friends that has a portable gymnastics mat they can lend out. Gym mats provide much more stability than a mattress. If you have concerns about your ability to teach or coach it properly, enlist a local PE teacher or gymnastics instructor. Off-topic: AKdenldr - I dunno about that. My 6-year-old daughter understands competition juuuuust fine. There's got to be a winner and a loser - and if she's not that winner, she will be next time It actually drives her to do and learn more, because she wants to be a better reader than Joe, or a faster runner than Emily. It's kind of new to me, because I've never been a really competitive type of person.

The site momof2cubs provided also includes the prominent disclaimer: "The BB-Gun Shooting belt loop and pin can only be awarded by a BSA range-trained shooting-sports director at a BSA approved range." But you're kind of in a Catch-22 situation since the SSD clearly thinks that the Cubs completed the requirements. If I were in your shoes, I'd ask your son to explain and demonstrate those items to you, sign off as Akela, then next year - if he's interested - work on the shooting sports award certificates, focusing on accuracy and marksmanship. I'd also call up the council shooting sports committee director or camp program director with a gentle nudge to make sure that all the Cubs are completing all the requirements as written. At the Cub camps I've staffed, we offered more of an open-shoot program like BluejacketScouter described. There was neither the staffing nor the time for each Cub to demonstrate those items individually as part of the program, though the range officer did a safety and how-to demonstration and offered advice as needed. But if someone had asked, I'm sure the SS staff would have gladly hung around an extra 10 minutes to sign off. It's interesting to note that the requirements have been rewritten since 2002. For the belt loop, they used to be: 1. Complete the camp basic BB gun marksmanship safety course. 2. Fire 15 shots at a 4-inch or 5-inch target. No particular score is required. Participant must be able to adjust the BB gun sight. The old pin requirements involved completing the camp basic BB gun marksmanship safety course, firing three groups of shots (three shots per group) that can be covered by a quarter, and then shooting from various positions with set degrees of accuracy.

You have a bigger problem than two obnoxious, lying dads. If losing two Scouts will cause you to drop below the minimum five Scouts needed for recharter, you're a troop on the verge of dying. So bite the bullet, someone write a check to keep the kids on the charter, drop the adults, send the kids a pro-forma letter reminding them of troop activities and events, and then start a recruiting effort so you're not dependent on the bullies. He has kept the committee from holding regular meetings for quite some time because either nobody will vote the way he wants them to or he doesn't show up. If he doesn't show up, drop him from the committee. One person's instransigence can't block a committee from meeting. You need a minimum of four adults to run a troop - a unit leader (SM) and three committee members (one of whom must be CC; the COR can double as the CC or an MC). Anything else is icing on the cake. You already have two of those three required commitee members - yourself and the COR. If dropping the dads will put you below that three-MC mark, move some of your ASMs into those slots for purposes of rechartering. With such a small troop, you and the SM need to worry a lot less about policies and bylaws and committee meetings, and a heck of a lot more about recruiting and energizing a fun, active outdoor program. Policies and bylaws are good for the grownups, but the kids don't give a crap. Cut out all the administratibabble and focus on program.

I think perverse monkey sex needs to become a new corollary to Godwin's Law. This thread has certainly been educational!

Try coaching them to find a new CO, or develop a better relationship with the current one. One of the CO's responsibilities is to "Provide adequate facilities for the Scouting unit(s) to meet on a regular schedule with time and place reserved." It's clearly not doing that, even though it has the space. The current situation sounds like a mess. There is no way that multiple dens can share a large room like a cafeteria and have meaningful program. Boys need a dedicated space without distractions. They need routine and ritual - opening ceremonies, cheers, flags, etc. - on their own scale, which is that of the den. What this pack has right now is a pack meeting with breakout groups. Both the boys and den leaders are being cheated of a Scouting experience and the proper support they need.(This message has been edited by shortridge)