shortridge

I would like an actual pocket-sized Boy Scout Handbook and Fieldbook, like the older styles that you could stick in your back pants pocket or jacket pocket and carry with you. ========= As far as Poultry Keeping goes - check out alibris.com and abebooks.com. Several copies available there for under $10.(This message has been edited by shortridge)

A truly inspiring story. After 26 years of work, at age 69, man with cerebral palsy becomes an Eagle Scout: http://ow.ly/3HUfn

WFA in my neck of the woods is a two-day course, offered only infrequently by the council (for only the cost of materials) and not at all by the local Red Cross. Without expanding the infrastructure, it wouldn't make sense to require this. ARC first aid, however, is a day-long course that includes CPR, and is offered many times during the year. I don't think that would be too much to require. It could easily be offered at summer camp or a camporee with a little advance planning.

Back in the day, BSA produced several posters illustrating various Scouting skills - firebuilding, tracking, etc. They had green and grey/black printing on a white background. I saw and used several of them in my camp staff days, but haven't been able to find them since. I believe they dated back to the '60s and '70s. The one I remember most vividly featured a whifflepoof. Anyone know what I'm talking about - and better yet, have any idea of some keywords I might search for on various book/document auction/sales sites to obtain some of them? All the words I've tried have struck out.

The way I read it, unregistered parents or other adults can still attend in the adult leader role, alongside a registered adult. Here how I parse it the info that John quoted: - Two adult leaders are required - All registered adults must have completed YPT - At least one registered adult who has completed YPT must be present If adult leaders were synonymous with registered adults, then the requirement for at least one registered adult who has completed YPT would be unnecessary.

Not every award or patch requires a formal ceremony to leave a lasting impression. It's the boy talking about how it's great to have a friend in the den or pack that will inspire others to go out and get their friends to join ... not the words of the Cubmaster.(This message has been edited by shortridge)

Sure, there's informal influence, pressure, politics, etc. What I want to know is what document says an SE dictates who serves on what committees. If the SE can just stack the committees with hand-picked people, where's the oversight and independence?

BadenP, Eagle92 quoted from the Guide for Officers and Advisers (not the OA Handbook), which comes from National. What's your source, other than your own experience? Where is it written that the SE dictates who sits on council committees? I'm not challenging, just questioning. I usually prefer to go with documents over someone's say-so.

they also drive off possible male staffers (girls this age are more mature, better organized, more motivated; this means the boys suffer or get fewer opportunities to develop). Male adults are also more mature, better organized and more motivated. Does that mean that male adults shouldn't be allowed on summer camp staff because the boys will suffer or get fewer opportunities to develop? Give me a break. If anything, the presence of a skilled female staffer - an archery instructor, say, who can shoot circles around any of the boys on staff - will motivate the male staffers to get better faster so they're not shown up. IM_Kathy put it best.

Another option: If some boys from that pack want to join your troop, they can simply join without "crossing over," being "received" or going through a formal pack ceremony. That type of hoopla is not required. Just help your PLC plan a great welcoming event, separate from the pack's B&G - maybe involving a bridge, neckerchiefs, handbooks, etc., maybe on their first campout so they can formally join in the majesty of the outdoors rather than in a fire hall or church basement - and get them into your troop and enjoying Scouting as quickly as possible. Don't let this one man ruin the start of these boys' Boy Scout careers. You handle the elements you can control, and let him do his thing. He'll flame out soon enough.(This message has been edited by shortridge)

Do you have any details on that murder case?

BadenP, It's the Guide for Officers and Advisers, which is a nationally produced publication, and it's mentioned in multiple places. If that's not the way it's done in your council, I'd say your council is the one out of whack. As the Supreme Chief of the Fire, the Scout Executive should be following the rules - or taking steps to have them changed across the country.

Even if you are a youth with no primary position in your unit, you're primary position is still with your unit. I know this is the way it's supposed to be, and the way the literature describes it, but let's look at it realistically. A good lodge chief puts a ton of time into his job. There's the planning of 3, 4 or more weekend-long events a year (inductions weekends, service weekends, fellowship weekends, or all combined) - council committee membership - appointing committee members - representing the lodge at non-OA events like council awards banquets, etc. - overseeing service projects - organizing a lodge leadership development conference - overseeing summer camp activities - talking regularly with his advisers, officers, committee chairmen and chapter chiefs - attending conclaves or NOAC ... It all adds up to a lot of work, and a lot of time that young man is spending away from his troop. My thinking has somewhat shifted on this - but I now believe that perpetuating the fiction that a lodge chief is able to hold down that job and be an active member of his unit does a disservice to those young men and their leadership. It may be possible for a few very dedicated young men - but from my own experience, as only a mere lodge vice-chief, attending troop meetings and going on campouts was the first thing to fall by the wayside. We don't pretend that the lodge adviser should be a SM or ASM. Let the lodge chief have a position patch and recognize his service like we do for the adults. Now, that said, in my lodge the chief wears a special beaded necklace passed down from chief to chief. He's the only one who wears it, so everyone knows who he is. It looks sharp, too. So there are other options available.

"Council camp staff CSP, Camp Staff or Camp Area Director POR" I don't mean to take this thread off-topic, but what are those? Does your council have a specific camp staff CSP and POR patch?

infoscouter - I strongly disagree. Something that fits into a pocket is hardly a huge burden to be hauling around. You can never be too prepared. We should be emphasizing that at every level. When I was in Cubs, I remember learning that I should always carry a dime around to make an emergency phone call. Same principle, different setting. Besides - it's fun and cool!

And here I thought I knew this movie! I'm too embarassed to report my scores.

Sounds pretty comprehensive to me, not overkill. I'd add a water bottle, pocketknife and rain gear. And consider replacing the button compass with a real (inexpensive) functional one - I haven't found the button jobbies to work very well. What is the purpose of the survival kit? Is it a Klondike requirement/test, or just something you're putting together? For your son to carry around, I'd do everything that Stosh recommended (wool socks cannot be emphasized enough). Hit a thrift store and get a $3 used lightweight day pack/bookbag in case it gets dropped in the snow or mud (it will). The survival kit can just be slipped in there. That's what I do on day hikes.(This message has been edited by shortridge)

. Does not matter if you are a 103 - you need to show the youth you care, and that you are there to ensure they have a great program. I'm not sure I understand this. What is a 103?

People have a fine sense of the absurd, and if you tell them that crapping in the woods is going to destroy the wilderness ... Well, here's one of those absurdities on display. LNT doesn't say that - but lots of people clearly think it does! Yes, some areas require that you bag it. But catholes are perfectly fine in many places. Here's what LNT actually says: http://www.lnt.org/programs/principles_3.php I've found that many, many people who take an anti-LNT position haven't actually read the principles and program - they're going by what someone told them. Or they latch on to one item (e.g., colored tents) and condemn the whole package because they disagree. I just don't understand that mindset.

IMO - FWIW - take it with a grain of salt - speaking only for myself ... A lot of people seem to come here expecting a panel of Scouting experts to provide The Answer to a question, or adjudicate a nasty dispute. That's not what this place is. It's one of the rowdiest yet most collegial campfires I've ever sat around, with a different opinion from every person posting. One of the most frequently asked questions is: "What is the official Scouting/National/BSA policy on [insert very specific situation]?" The truth is, there probably is not a specific policy governing whether Scouts can wear their summer camp patch upside-down, or whether a troop committee chairman can marry his own grandmother who happens to be the unit commissioner, or exactly how many shakes a boy has to shake hands with the Cubmaster before being handed his Arrow Point. (I'm trying to pick outlandish things here for the sake of illustration.) We have general principles, and not all that many specific rules when it comes to organizational leadership. For the people who come here and say: "Can a Pack Master just hand out Eagle Points to whomever he wants without getting approval from the Council Executive?" we rightfully reply: "Huh?" and try to ask questions to determine what the exact problem is and what the larger problem might be. We're not picking on you - we're trying to help - but your terminology and understanding of the way the Scouting structure works may be a bit off-kilter. Personally - and I hope *this* doesn't come across as mean-spirited - I am perpetually amazed, here and in my day job, by the sheer volume of people who post / call someone not connected with the issue / e-mail without bothering to do a Google search / read the phone book / check the website first. Scouting.org, the Scout handbooks and the leaders' guides have a wealth of information, generally written in a fairly understandable way. (There are exceptions.) That should be the first place you look, to try to understand something for yourself. Relying on a bunch of anonymous people on an Internet forum for answers is like relying on the cast of Grey's Anatomy for medical advice - it might be right, but it might not. P.S. I'm told the word is "wussies." The "woosies" are what you get when you drink too much.

The COR wears no unit numbers because he or she is a voting member of the council, in addition to being able to serve on the local district committee.

First, the council is within its rights to ask that you show your tour permit when you are at camp. The application form clearly states: "This permit should be in the possession of the group leader at all times and displayed when requested by Scouting officials or other duly authorized people." Second, as moosetracker noted, training records across the country are all screwed up. You're not being picked on. Third, as to your question about fundraising and popcorn sales: Of course he can't do that. That would handicap a non-popcorn-selling unit from raising any money until the next popcorn round. Ridiculous. To start with, take a good look back over your application and make sure all your ducks are in a row so that the Scout Executive can't fall back on another reason to deny you. Your next call needs to be to your COR, who needs to call the SE and demand corrective action. The message needs to hit several points: 1. This fundraiser complies with the rules on the unit money-earning application. 2. Popcorn is not a required Scouting activity. 3. You are hurting my unit's ability to carry out the Scouting program. Fundraising is a local unit activity and decision, decided upon by the PLC, TC and CO, and your made-up rules are harming my organization's programs. 4. If you continue in this boneheaded line of thinking, I will take this issue to the next Council Executive Board meeting and ask for a vote of no confidence. I understand that you may be under pressure to increase council fundraising, but you do not have the authority to deliver retribution on units that don't sell popcorn.

Sounds like a good idea. I'd just be prepared with someone else to step in and lead some sort of song or other quick activity to hold their attention during the 7.5 minutes while the eggs are cooking. (No Cub Scout is going to stay focused on a demonstration for that long unless it involves dogs, firefighters or police officers.) Also be sure to have the recipe/instructions printed out with enough copies for every parent, so they *can* try it at home.

When I've done Webelos and Cub programs in the past, it's always been a challenge to (a) make it exciting and fun and different from the stuff they did as Tigers, Wolves and Bears, but (b) not be overwhelming and © keep it age-appropriate. There's a reason for the split between Webelos and Boy Scouts. Boy Scouts can do some things Webelos can't, and IMO, Webelos shouldn't be doing the same competitions and events that Boy Scouts do. Webelos aren't just smaller Boy Scouts. These new first-year Webelos that move up during the summer aren't going to be able to join Boy Scouts for two more years. That's an awful long time to wait, and if they've already gone to Boy Scout camporees and done the exact same competitions as Boy Scouts do, it begs the question "Why do I want to join Boy Scouts when I've already done all this stuff?" Striking that balance and whetting their appetites just enough is a very fine line to walk. Stick to material in the Webelos handbook and the program will be fine.

desertrat, you've used some pretty extreme hyperbole in your accusations against the LNT brigades. Examples: "To say the earth will be grievously harmed by eight scouts hiking on the earth's surface, or if a scout picks up a piece of deadwood "larger than his wrist" or if he sets up an orange dome tent--that's a stretch, to put it mildly." "Others are personal preferences presented with a zeal that insinuates that anything less than 100 percent buy in makes you a Hater of The Earth. It just ain't so" To you and others, first: Please read the LNT principles and details (http://www.lnt.org/programs/principles.php), with an open mind. Put aside everything you've heard from others, and just read for yourself. They're very reasonable, and nothing in there conflicts with anything Scouting does. Do they conflict with our personal preferences? Perhaps. But being challenged is part of learning and the educational process. Second: It's extremely important to note that LNT does not just apply to environmental issues. Most of the principles do, of course. But to argue against LNT on the grounds that it says orange dome tents will harm the environment is intellectually dishonest. That falls under the principle "Be Considerate of Other Visitors" - not under the heading of protecting the environment. Please don't engage in distortions to make your point.