SeattlePioneer

In my view, one of the main purposes of Boy Scouts is to train youth in the skills needed to be a leader. So to me Scouting is dedicated to the idea that leaders are made not born. Natural leaders are fine and great to have, but they need to learn the skills of being leaders too. And a lot of other people can learn the skills and do a good job even if they weren't born with charismatic leadership abilities.

> Why isn't the girl in your example "disseminating"? She's the one starting the problem. And if she is entitled to be stupid, why charge those who are being equally stupid down the chain? I can just see some outraged parent complaining to the cops about what others have done but know what his precious darling did to get the problem started. Charge 'em all ---- or none. Preferably none. The United States is the world capitol of porn --- it's written right into the constitution.

That's certainly a risk. But that's why foolish behavior is foolish --- it has negative consequences. At a minimum, perhaps the person taking the picture and initially sending it should be prosecuted for making and disseminating child pornography. That's where the problem really originates. Suppose a youth takes a nude photo of themselves and mails it to someone else, and the person receiving it shows it to several other people. Is that a crime? If so, who are the criminals?

Hello Acco, That seems like a reasonable proposition. But it has difficulties. Is sending out a message a criminal act? Does one really know where an e-mail or text message may be going, or to whom? There are plenty of sexually sophisticated teenagers. Trying to be a judge of their age in person may be difficult or impossible --- how much more difficult when they are the addressee of an e-mail? As I said, I was offended when I received a sexually explicit e-mail apparently from a Cub Scout parent --- although presumably from a hacked account. But while that's offensive and fraudulent, should the message itself be criminalized? There is plenty of room for abuse if we go that way too, I think. I don't pretend to have the answers here. But easy answers may not be good ones.

I might add that I recently received a couple of e-mails from a former Cub Scout parent that presented me with adult porn when I opened them. Presumably someone had hacked into her e-mail account and sent out e-mails to her list of contacts. That's distasteful, but it's easily deleted. But suppose it was kiddie porn that I didn't open or delete? Is that grounds for a criminal charge?

Unfortunately, there is also predatory behavior of the following kind: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2012/02/teacher-aide-who-sent-nude-photos-to-students-convicted.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+lanowblog+%28L.A.+Now%29

In observing film of the species, I would say that being able to wiggle your ears is hippocritical.

I'm with Beavah. It's bogus to try to protect the privacy of young women who voluntarily give it up by jailing the men to whom they send their pictures. The fact is that young people are sexually active at age twelve or thirteen these days, and treating them as children is a futile thing to try to do. If they have the brass to take sexually explicit pictures on their own initiative and send them out to be consumed by the world, they have lost any claim to deserving protection of their privacy by the law.

Hello Packsaddle, I'm not surprised. I suppose the amputation of penises as part of fraternity rituals is just around the corner. I suppose I would be a hopeless old bigot for opposing fashionable NEW cultural trends, though.

Personally I think the chartered organization system has been a winner for BSA and the changes you propose would be bad for Scouting. If you want to start a Scout unit not affiliated with a church, you are free to do so.

Hello Bear Dad, Oh, tattoos certainly predate American prisons. But I think a significant part of their popularity these days comes from their being popularized by criminal gangs and their widespread use in prisons. And yes, I think that prisons are among the wellsprings of some significant part of American culture these days, tattoos included. And in my opinion, tattoos are trashy behavior.

Interesting question. If a youth is seriously assaulted by another youth or anyone, calling the police might be the smart thing to do. Nothing is going to do more to discourage hazing and bullying than seeing someone arrested and hauled out of a troop meeting or camp. A couple of years ago I was doing a hot dog roast at a small public park when a crazy (literally) old lady came over to claim she was a police officer and order me out of the park. I called 911, and when the 911 operator established she was impersonating a police office they sent out a police response. They tried to minimize the situation by ordering her to leave, but when she told them she was arresting THEM (the uniformed police officers in the marked car) she was the one arrested instead.

With the increased acceptance of tattoos illustrated in this thread ---- what's next? What will spring from the cultural wellsprings of our prisons which will begin making its way into acceptance by the middle class using the methods already used with tattoos? I would suppose that branding with hot irons would be a logical next step, and then amputation of body parts. Ears, noses, parts or all of fingers. Amputated penises. We don't want to be judgmental about such things do we?

Excellent comment, qwazse! It's usually worth while to make the point that the real issue is often not the right to do something, but identifying the right thing to do. That's often a far more complex question.

We have had several revolutions over the past 200+ years which have drastically changed the government. I suspect that if the framers had a glimpse of what the government is today, they would run in horror from the constitutional convention and renew their support for the Articles of Confederation!

I've had Cub Scout Den Leaders with visible military tattoos. I cut them slack. I don't recall this being much of an issue with WWII, Korean War or Vietnam vets. Has this been popularized in the military in recent years? You comment that a tattoo might have precluded you from being included on some military missions is interesting. One thinks of "Lawrence of Arabia" when Lawrence was captured by the Turks.

Personally, if Indians feel entitled to "act white" and engage in cultural rituals pioneered (pardon that expression) by white America, such as obtaining care from doctors and hospitals, working for wages and attending school, they are barking up the wrong tree by trying to prevent whites from "playing Indian" if they wish to do so. Ditto for African Americans who objected to white vocalists who "covered" songs popularized by African American singers. Jimmie Hendrix "covering" the Star Spangled Banner is an example of how cultures adapt to such things. Foods are another example. Italians who complain about American interpretations of Italian food and Mexican Americans distraught about American tacos ----same deal. Popular culture in the United States takes in whatever raw material it can find and often adapts it to new purposes using new methods. That's OUR culture! To those who don't like it ----tough.

Yes, it's a part of National's effort to expand the number of adult Scout leaders. One of my goals this year as a district leader is to get a list of 50 Scouting Alumni and see how many I can contact and convert into registered district and unit leaders. My Scout Executive assured me the names and contact information are available for that purpose. I've made a request for that information to my DE, but no lists have been returned to me yet.

I'd be curious if Scout Camp Directors would refuse to hire program staff with visible tattoos. While I consider tattoos to be trashy behavior, I would tend to ignore one such display were it small. But I see a pronounced tendency for tattoos to grow like a skin a contagious disease on a lot of people. Science managed to get rid of smallpox and we seems to have replaced smallpox scars with tattoos.

I'm thinking about getting a "Tats Are Trashy" tattoo. But WHERE?

> I don't think that buying your wife a vintage uniform makes you a uniform policeman. Buying her an embroidered unit number for Christmas though ----THAT qualifies you for your Uniform Policeman's badge!

> Heh, heh! Suggested that ahead of me....

Quite a few children have a tough time living through their teen and young adult years. They can be hard on themselves, their families and communities. The real struggle is to do what you can to help them get through this portion of their life while minimizing the damage to themselves and others and giving them an opportunity to find a place in the world for themselves. Some will, some will crack up with drug, alcohol and criminal issues. I'm sure your pride and your trust has been violated. I'd try to set that aside and consider how your son is doing now SINCE he got his Eagle. What are his prospects in life? Does he have a plan that has a reasonable chance of working, and is he working his plan? After a few years you can expect to reconcile when the dust from this adolescent period has settled and the results from his choices in life have started to become clear to everyone. Personally, I was didn't get along with my father ---we were way too much alike. He kicked me out the summer before my senior year in high school. I lived pretty much as a homeless youth in the late 1960s, but stayed in school and continued on to college. While I had plenty of grievances against my father, he had grievances against me too. After a few decades, we reconciled, especially after we both realized how similar we were to each other! In Scouting, we do our best. Sometimes that's not a high standard for either youth or adults.

I have a Tiger Cub Den Leader who's a pretty good guy, but every time he bends over you get quite a view of the Visible Butt Crack.

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/524-406a.pdf Fill out the application once then make a copy of it for the second copy. The council needs the signed original copy, the unit copy is for the use of the unit. You may need to pay an OA membership fee and complete an OA application if you need to be an active OA member. You might want to consider registering with a Venturing unit on or near your base that you could participate in. You can use beascout.org to help locate possibilities. I believe there is a Scouter Reserve classification aimed at making it easier for young men in the military or college to maintain BSA membership, but I'm not experienced with that and can't advise you with confidence on that. Perhaps someone else can describe that option.(This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)