SeattlePioneer

Our district encourages Webelos to attend and participate in Klondike and spring Camporee. There are separate awards for Webelos Dens. Unfortunately, not many do. Sad, and good opportunities missed as you describe.

One step up from Scout Troops or Cub Packs is the area district organization. It's purpose is to provide services need by the units in it's area. What kinds of things does your district do for your unit, and how well do they do it? What kinds of things would you like to see them do?

Hello Scout Nut, Well, they had gone mostly hungry the night before, unable to cook dinner for lack of a fire. I figured they needed some pretty clear ideas about what methods might work. I did what I could under the circumstances.

Don't blame you a bit. I was on a troop camp out once at a state park. A number of people on the outing were older teenagers I'd never seen before, including girls. Really more of a church outing than a Scout outing. The next morning, the restroom sinks and toilets had been pulled out of the walls and trashed, the most serious vandalism. A claim was made that a car load of teen agers had been seen entering the park late the previous night. Perhaps, but the only carloads of teenagers I know were there for sure were the ones we brought with us. That was my first and last outing with that troop.

Hello Basement, No, I didn't see them get the fire going. I just saw evidence that they had got a fire going when I stopped by as Camp Commissioner the next day. The evening before had been the day troops cooked dinner for themselves, and I found out the next day they had more or less gone hungry for lack of being able to get a fire started. They had an Eagle Scout with them as Scoutmaster (Scoutreach Troop). I would have supposed he would have coached them on getting a fire started. I really don't know exactly what happened except no dinner. Sad.

Hello Scoutnut, They did need to split the chunks of wood they had available into kindling. They did some of that but not enough. And they needed tinder to get the kindling started, which is where the fuzz sticks came in. Shaving the kindling made fuzz sticks which served for tinder. le Voyageur might have had trouble getting a fire started. This camp was in a large cut over area. There were no trees of significant size. My purpose was to give a demonstration to Scouts who weren't present as to how they could use the existing materials they had at hand to get a fire started. I didn't care to forage around for pitch, and there might not have been any very conveniently available. By splitting more kindling and making fuzz sticks and leaving those materials arranged so they could likely be lit I was able to offer some help and instruction to Scouts on how they could get a fire started. That appeared to have worked well. I might use other methods in other circumstances. The subject raised was fuzz sticks, and I gave an example of how I had used that method recently. Frankly, when someone asked about when fuzz sticks might have been used, replying that you used pitch, pine or cedar would not have been answering the question posed. I think the objections raised to my post are silly. When you need to light a fire, please feel free to use whatever methods suit you.

I hope NOLS didn't emphasize the importance of ignorance over acquiring various skills to do a particular job. Around here there are no birch trees, and cedar trees may not be available either. At the summer camp I was at, the Scouts had gone hungry the night before because they were unable to get a fire started. There were pieces of split hemlock, not as dry as one would like, and an axe. No birchwood. No cedar unless you wanted to hike a distance and forage for some. Your task, should you choose to accept it. Was to give these Scouts an idea of how they can build a fire with the materials they have at hand, without them being in the camp. I found fuzz sticks a useful method to help illustrate how that could be done. When I came back the next day, it was clear they had started a fire the previous night. Personally I think it's silly to boast about having a limited set of skills.

Heh, heh! I seem to detect a certain prejudice in favor of birch bark....

> Knowing how to take a marginal piece of firewood and make effective tinder out of it seems like a skill to me.

Fuzz sticks are one of a diverse range of skills which might prove useful in getting a fire started. The wider the set of skills you possess, the greater the likelihood you will be able to get a fire started and the easier that task is likely to be. Really--- it's a simple idea and a simple skill to learn. I'm surprised at the resistance to a simple concept I see in this thread.

le Voyageur, Apparently you aren't aware that other people can change the subject of a thread or bring up counter examples you might find awkward to answer.

Actually le Voyageur, I think you are ignoring the serious issue raised by Joe Bob. Obama and the left objected to those captured in the war from being held at Guantanamo or other detention camps, complained about their civil rights being violated and so on. But when Obama became President, he didn't do much about that. What he has done is to mount military strikes that leave people dead rather than captured. We can note that under Bush Saddam was captured and had a trial before being executed. Under Obama, Osama Bin Laden was killed in circumstances where it would seem his capture could have been made. Thus Obama seems to be vindicating the civil rights issue by making a point of killing people rather than capturing them, which saves him from having to deal with the awkward issues involved in detention. This seems like a peculiar way to solve civil rights issues, and seems to give a good deal of credit to President Bush who took the heat for capturing rather than killing people during a war.

I use them when the occasion warrants. It's a way of making something like tinder out of a relative fat stick. As I noted, I had occasion to use this at a Scout summer camp this year. I would say it's one of many little skills that can make starting a fire easier in some circumstances.

That looks like fun: Cruise with the Us Coast Guard! Each year the US Coast Guard and Sea Scouts, BSA team up to offer the cruise opportunity of a lifetime - a week long cruise as a crew member aboard the tall ship USCG Barque Eagle. Sea Scouts selected will serve alongside USCG Cadets as they demonstrate and perfect their sailing cruise aboard this historic vessel. http://www.joinseascouts.com/ I believe the Eagle was a prize of war, taken from Germany.

Looking over Google references to laser tag.... the equipment seems expensive. What was your source of gear?

Hello Scoutfish, Oh, I'm not saying that traditional Christian sexual morality is "right." Human beings have lived under hugely varying sexual mores. My argument is pretty much utilitarian. Traditional Christian sexual morality tends to be functional for society, tending to lead to families that will care for and raise children. That is NOT the goal or priority for the sexual liberation value system, and not surprisingly families and children have tended to be devalued as that value system has ascended in power and influence, such as by normalizing divorce. The main emphasis of the sexual liberation movement is to gratify the sexual desires of the individual. Unfortunately, the more sexual desires are gratified the more jaded people become and the more extreme the sexual gratification must become. That is true short term for a lot of individuals, and longer term for a society built on the values of sexual liberation. Because of that, I reject the sexual liberation line of argument. Where is the sexual liberation movement leading us? Well of course, such things as homosexual marriage and teaching about gays, lesbians, bisexuals and transgendered individuals as part of the public school curriculum. On the horizon, sex between adults and children and polygamy. There is no logical place for the sexual liberation movement to stop.

Personally I have a bias with den sizes of 4-6 Scouts. Smaller dens are easier for parents to manage, making it easier to recruit den leaders. With two or more dens, you can have a den leader who comes up with a meeting program for all the dens, which the individual den Leader or Assistant Den Leader in each sub den then carries out. A BIG added advantage is that you can easily arrange competitions between similar dens as part of the program, which boys enjoy and usually find highly motivating. With large dens of 8-18 boys, maintaining order is hard and finding leaders is usually a lot harder too. Dropout rates from big dens are more likely to be high, in my experience, since boys will tend to be neglected or picked upon more often. I led our district Tiger Twilight Camp this summer with twelve boys. I let boys choose which boys they wanted in their den the first evening. I asked for and got parents to be the Den Leader the first two nights for each of the two dens. The third night, I got no volunteers. I merely said, "Well, we need to have Den Leaders before we can go to the BB gun range..." About ten seconds later I had two den leaders! I put together the program for each day of the program, but the Den Leader for a day carried out the program. Each Tiger Cub Den made their own flag and had their own den cheer, and we had competitions between the two dens each day. Having two dens was far superior to having one den of twelve. This was all done in two evenings and one afternoon of program. I have two main purposes in mind for the Tiger Twilight Camp: 1. To show the boys and parents what a quality Tiger Cub program should look like and feel like. 2. To give parents experience in leading a Tiger Cub Den so they are more likely to take on that responsibility at their pack. I was at a recruiting night for a pack last night, and the Tiger Cub Den Leader was in full uniform. He was one of the parents at the Tiger Twilight camp. Before the recruiting night he had five Tiger Cubs in his den. When we were done last night, he had twelve. I recommended that he form two dens, especially since he will very likely get still more boys. (This message has been edited by seattlepioneer)

> Hello Scoutfish, Yada, yada, yada. This is the traditional line of the liberal left to disparage Christian sexual moral teachings. But varying denominations are free and entitled to decide for themselves what they will teach as sexual morality. They are free to interpret the Bible according to their own lights. It's not something YOU are entitled to do for them. You don't like their religious catechism? Fine. Don't belong. But neither do such groups have any obligation to accept your teachings or opinions. Christianity taught that the main purpose of sex was the procreation of children, not sexual pleasure. That is still reflected in the teachings of the Catholic Church and many traditional Christian Churches. If that is the fundamental value, then many other things flow from that, including the idea that gay/lesbian/bisexual/transgendered sex is WRONG! Of course the sexual liberation movement has been selling the opposite idea for a couple of generations now --- the idea that sex is primarily for pleasure. And that has it's own consequences as well, leading to ever more extreme forms of sexual gratification. There is really no end to the perversity that the sexual liberation movement has and will champion. There is no place to stop. Perhaps that appeals to you, but not to me.

I have a determined recruiting effort in the spring. Usually that results in several new Tiger Cubs who are then in Kindergarten. I form a Bobcat Den for a few meetings of all the new boys and parents recruited, and lead that as the Cubmaster. That gives me a chance to insure a quality program appropriate for new Scouts, going over the Bobcat requirements and a quality outing designed to impress new boys and parents. It also avoids dumping new boys into existing dens that are usually working to complete their badge achievements. It also gives me an opportunity to become acquainted with new parents and determine who are likely candidates to help with various pack leadership needs. So I look for a likely prospect for a new Tiger Cub Den Leader, and have found one each of the past three springs. I conduct a Tiger Cub Den Leader training course at the June Roundtable, with the idea of training as many new Tiger Cub Den Leaders as possible. That's an excellent idea, but attendance has been thin. The last part of my program is conducting the Tiger Twilight Camp, which I use to give new Tiger Cubs and their parents a model experience in what a quality Tiger Cub Den program should look like and feel like. I had thirteen boys in the Tiger Twilight camp this year. I had a new Tiger Cub Den Leader appointed this spring, who unfortunately transferred to a neighboring pack. I found another person to serve as TCDL that we recruited this fall --- he earned the Arrow of Light and Eagle as a youth. To me, it's ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL that new Tiger Cub Dens get a prompt and effective start in the fall. That's something EVERY pack needs to do EVERY year --- and many do a poor job of it. Doing that is one of my top priorities as a Cubmaster and as a district leader as well.

Hello Baden P, I don't think we need to adopt the sexual standards of the Roman Empire either, but that's what we are doing. I just finished reading a biography of the Roman Emperor Marcus Aurelius, and the sexual morality of Christianity was a huge change compared to that which prevailed in Rome. The values of Christianity at the time were the recognizably those of the Catholic Church today. It's amazing how durable they have been now for two thousand years. (just as an example, sex was seen as a utilitarian act to conceive children rather than something done for pleasure). Personally I don't see much to recommend the sexual license that is increasingly the values of the day. It has wounded or destroyed immense numbers of families and killed off more developing human beings than Hitler and Stalin killed off --- combined.

I like the idea of honoring this long time Scouter at the Blue and Gold Dinner and with an award at the District Recognition dinner. Also, it would be interesting to know why he quit.

Hello 5 Year Scouter, There are eight schools fairly near my pack I could recruit from. I've sent flyers home at four schools and visited schools at lunch and handed out sticker invitations to our recruiting night at four schools. We've had four boy paid at our recruiting night. Tough sell. I ought to take a page from your book and send flyers home at all eight schools in the spring. The council has a lot of flyers....

Hello Basement, That's a sad story. I last used "fuzzy sticks" in early July when I was serving as Camp Commissioner. I heard that a Scoutreach troop had been unable to get a fire started to cook their dinner the night before. When I visited their campsite there was no one there and just rather too large chunks of wood in the firepit they hadn't been able to light ---no surprise. I spent about fifteen minutes splitting kindling and making some fuzz sticks and building a fire that would start, and left it that way as something with which they could experiment. When I stopped by the next day, they had the burned remains of a fire in the fire pit. I've been slowly building attendance at my Cub Scout Roundtable. August the subject was how to improve your unit popcorn sales, September we had a model recruiting night using a rain gutter regatta as an event to attract families --- and an ice cream social. This monthe the program is how to recruit new adult leaders. My aim is to answer questions new pack leaders will have and to have fresh ideas that experienced leaders can learn from. Still, attendance has been mediocre. I haven't even had other leaders from my pack attend. Roundtable is a great idea but a hard sell. Few people want to invest another evening in Scout it seems.

Hmmm. Never heard of using Facebook for Scout recruiting before. Can you describe what you did in more detail?

The real leader at waging unauthorized, covert warfare was Franklin Roosevelt, as part of his plan to draw the United States into WWII despite 70% popular opposition to the war and in defiance of strict neutrality laws. For doing that, in part, he rates as the second greatest US President after George Washington. Ronald Reagan is right up there despite his covert warfare. And so is Lincoln, despite his defiance of the Supreme Court and throwing people into jail for political reasons and refusing to respond to habeus corpus law suits. All three could have been impeached. None were, and instead all are properly regarded as being top Presidents.