sctmom

Actually we haven't done plenty of pins. I have a hard time getting parents to remind sons of things outside of meetings. And we end up meeting twice a month for 1 hour each meeting. So, the most pins most of them have is 5 (I think). We go through periods of attendance problems. I don't think the boys really care one way or the other about the actual pins, they just want to have a good time. They enjoy practically anything we do and are eager to learn. I have a compass game and a place to set it up one evening. They enjoyed the night we set up the tent (some had never been in a tent at all). We are having a warm winter, so I could probably do a "lantern" campfire one night. I know first-aid and citizen are two things that will come in handy as they cross over. Come to think of it, I can also work more with them on the Scout Oath and Law.

The boys are going to different troops for different reasons. A few may not really go to troops at all. I have 3 that will not be 11 until this summer so officially they can not join a troop until they finish 5th grade, since they do not have their Arrow of Light. So I want to make the most use of this "extra" time.

I hestitate to have them attend all the troop functions as Boy Scouts because some of the boys in our pack have worked hard to earn their Arrow of Light and cross over early. I feel that going to the troop before being 11 is a bit of a "reward" for their hardwork. I also have at least one scout who is just not mature enough yet for Boy Scouts. This is his first year in Cub Scouting and he academically and socially behind the other 5th graders. His mom and I both think he will benefit from the attention he gets in Cub Scouting for a few more months.

This is a tough one. Some kids are hypersensitive -- physically and emotionally. These are usually the ones with other behaviors that present challenges to adults. These are the kids who complain about tags in their shirts, or the socks are on the wrong feet. My son tends to overreact with just me around. I usually calmly tell him that if he can't walk or see or whatever, that we should head to the hospital immediately. If he is seriously injured he will go, otherwise he will decide may it's not THAT bad. Luckily he doesn't pull these stunts much anymore at 10 years old, and never has done it much in front of other kids. But that could backfire if the kid is REALLY begging for attention. The only thing I can say is to keep everyone as calm as possible. Send the other scouts back to what they are doing so this one gets no special attention from them. Maybe, he will soon learn that no one wants to hear this and he is getting left out of the fun.

As a Webelos leader entering the last few months of this current den, I'd like to share some of my thoughts about how troops could get more Webelos to cross over. Most of this is said in the official BSA literature, but of course everyone is too busy trying to run the current troop. My pack is within 15 minutes of 3 troops. Not a single troop has approached the pack for recruitment. I visited one troop and basically the scoutmaster said his name and turned around and walked off. I called the other 2 troops, very friendly, we visited one, meet the other at a parade (by accident). The troop should have someone to follow up with the Webelos leader after that initial contact as well. Don't bug me if I say none of the boys are interested, but call me and invite the den back. Give me specific activities we can attend and why these would be good ones. When we did do a planned den visit to one troop, they had a great evening planned for the boys. The scoutmaster took the parents off somewhere else to talk to us. Great! Except....we wanted to see the troop in action. Just simple little "reminder" phone calls like "wanted to see if your den is interested in camping the third weekend of next month at the local state park?". Roundtable in our area is okay, but not a lot of interaction between Boy Scout leaders and Cub Scout leaders. Plus that problem that people tend to talk to those they know and no on else. As a new leader at roundtable, I felt that I was invisible. Not to mention most of the Troop leaders aren't at Roundtable. Within the Pack, I think there needs to be more mentoring from the more experienced leaders. My ex-husband was a leader for a couple of years and I've been a leader for the last 2 years, and I get no advice from the experienced ones. It would have been great if someone would have said "here, let me tell you what I found works and things to avoid; here's some great events to go to; here are some good field trips; etc." Yes, I will be sharing these thoughts with the Pack and in the future with the Troop my son is going to. Yes, I know that means I'm basically raising my hand to be the Webelos transition person, which might be a great job.

I think Chartering does mean you endorse the beliefs of the organization. Unfortunately, most Chartering Organizations are on paper only. I think everyone would benefit if CO's would be actively involved. The troops and packs should be pushing for that involvement.

As a Webelos leader, I have 1 boy getting his Arrow of Light and crossing over, 2 that might cross over soon because they are 11, and 4 that are not ready to cross over until end of May. What should I be doing with these guys who aren't crossing over until May? Do we just keep trudging along in the Webelos book only? Or do we do some stuff more like the Boy Scouts -- compass reading, knot tying, etc. ? I want to keep them interested and busy. I know of at least one district wide Webelos Camporee we can attend, and feel sure the troops in the area would let them do some troop camping. But what about den meetings? Also, do I encourage them go get signed up for Summer Camp this year or to wait until next year?

OGE, you have Special powers I don't have. I tried to edit but can't!

I tried to edit one of my posts and it said I was not a moderator. It had only been 5 minutes since I made the post.

OGE is starting the TRUTH "discussion" again....lol. Merlyn, welcome to my corner...lol. I swear I've said the same thing you said about polygamy! I read that and did a double take -- hmmm...where have I heard that before? If I am right, does that make everyone else wrong?

Looking at my (yes, MY) Boy Scout handbook last night, I found that it says to wear the complete uniform for indoor events, and special outdoor events like ceremonies. For most activities, wear a troop or camp t-shirt and the uniform pants. So, if we just get BSA to fix those pants to be comfortable, in a variety of sizes, good useful pockets, more suitable material and zip-off legs (oh, I love those things, they are so useful), then it would be solved. Correct? Because then your son would be wearing his $45 pants at least once a week, maybe more if he likes the way they fit and look. So, what do we need to do? Start a letter writing campaign to National?

"Bennett argues that a solid foundation in morals, right/wrong, manners, civilized behavior, etc., are all prerequisites for success in school, and success in life. Parents are the first teachers, of course, and one of the essential elements of this moral foundation is faith-based. " Merlyn can correct me if I'm wrong here, but being Atheist does not mean without morals. I was NOT raised in a church, we did go to church some. I was in my teens before I saw my father enter a church. He has some of the strongest values of anyone. We were taught right from wrong without God ever being part of the conversation. We were taught manners, values, morals, etc. I'm one of 3 children. All of us are pretty decent citizens, never been in trouble with the law, hold down good jobs, and so forth. My sister has become a pagan in the last few years. My mother is convinced that means she has no morals. That is completely false. I think we all agree we need to spend our time and energy reaching out to youth instead of fighting. We need to teach them how to make the right choices and be independent. That can be done without saying "God says". Personally, I'm more comfortable with a group like BSA saying up front where it stands on issues than the ones that claim to be open and discriminate in underhanded ways. BSA is not out on a witch hunt to convert others or harm others like some discriminated groups. Yet, I'm sure some BSA members would like to do that, I have faith that it is very few. I have faith that humans are basically good.

Dern it, I should review before posting....that last paragraph.. "I have to think the BSA is okay", should be "I happen to think the BSA is okay". Let me also add that my beliefs are MY beliefs and who am I to say that my god is the one and only god and millions of others are wrong. But that's just my opinion

I have to agree with Merlyn, it is endorsing that religion if you don't let ALL groups meet on school property. Mr. Mori, are you ready for Wiccans to meet at your school? Are you ready for Atheists to meet at your school? Freedom of religion does not just mean freedom to choose which church you go to but also the freedom to believe or not believe. There is a story on the ACLU webpage somewhere that tells of a case where a small child was MADE to write about Jesus and say Christian prayers and made fun of at school, even though the school knew the family was Jewish. When did this take place? Oh, about 4 years ago! Read the article and you will be amazed at what these children went through. I have think the BSA is okay with their policy, but the schools do need to make sure they are open to all. I bet that most people (at least where I live) if approached by Wiccans to use the school ground, first would not know what Wicca is, and once they found out would come up with a reason not to let them use the school property. They would think they were right in their decision, most likely very proud of it, even though it is wrong.

I like the ideas of an outdoor type uniform. As far as cost, many kids play sports..how much do the parents pay for those uniforms and the membership fees each season? Also, if you show up without your uniform or the correct color uniform you don't get to play ball. Same should be for scouting, if you don't wear what the Pack or Troop says you should, then you don't play. Wow, I'm sounding more like my father every day! From a Cub Scout point of view, BSA has decided one way to keep Webelos interested in scouting is to MAKE them wear the brown uniform starting in the 4th grade. The smallest off the rack Boy Scout pants come in a size 8. Fine, most of you say. My son is in the 5th grade and some size 8's don't fit him. He can walk right out of most of them while they are buttoned and zipped. He's still squeezing into size 7's because he thinks 8 slims are too loose. (yes, he owns a belt, but doesn't want to cinch up his waist line) Seems weird that BSA doesn't want Webelos camping too much because "they should save that until Boy Scouts" but turn around and say dress them like the older guys. If BSA said here is a pair of durable pants, made for all shapes and sizes of boys, and functional, I would pay $40 for them. That is if it is something he would wear without fear of getting it dirty and he liked them. Even if I had to pay $40 every year because he outgrew them (in my dreams!...hehehe). Some Cub Scout packs that are associated with private schools use the blue school uniform pants as the Scout uniform pants. BSA has also decided that Cub Scouts need a brand new $12 hat EVERY YEAR. This is absurd. Should be one hat for Cubs, maybe one for Webelos and one for Boy Scouts.

Thanks Dad. But I'm not in Girl Scouts....lol. I did post a couple of recipes under Camping Tips. I know people in the Pine Valley Council and see you already have recipes from there.

AdvanceOn writes "We were always looking for ways to keep the kids seated, not milling around! " May I recommend Duct Tape? Just kidding...couldn't resist

Last year our pack did a sheet that had "find a person who ......" questions. Make sure you have someone in the crowd who fits each question. The boys get people to sign for ONE thing they meet the criteria for. Questions can be like Is an Eagle Scout Was in Scouting in the 1960's Is a fireman Is a school teacher Earned the Lion Badge (that tells their age..lol) Has owned a horse Is a pilot Works with computer on their job It keeps the kids busy and makes them walk up and talk to adults.

See how much you can learn in Scouting, even as an adult? Wonder if I can count this as corporate training????

What if the scout does not attend church? Do they still have to provide a "religious leader" as a reference?

Merlyn, thanks for your responses. I think there are also some religious groups who don't like to pledge allegiance to the flag because they feel you should only pledge allegiance to their god. Off topic here, but I read recently that the Pledge of Allegiance was written by a socialist for a socialist newspaper here in the U.S. People were trying to figure out a way to get patriotism up and to get more people to fly the flag. So they figured if they taught the pledge to school children then it would get more attention. I don't know how much of that is absolute truth.

As hard as I tried to stay out of this discussion, I just can't help myself. If you remove God from the requirements and Scout oath, are you going to remove the requirement for saying the Pledge of Allegience? Merlyn -- serious question because I'm curious, how does the atheist handle the saying of the Pledge of Allegience? I know the history of why the phrase "under God" was added, and believe we should take it back out of the Pledge. Because it is assumed to be the Christian Fatherly God. Many people do not worship THAT God. And our founding fathers were very specific about not putting references to God or Christianity in the first national documents, some wanted to but were outvoted. The current bestseller "John Adams" discusses this if you want some good reading. KoreaScouter, I have to disagree with your idea of letting atheists in so they can see what Scouters live like. That is recruiting for Religion. I stand by BSA because it is not based solely on recruiting for religion. Also, I disagree with your assumption that teaching a child there is no God is neglect. I believe there is a God or higher power, but I respect the right to NOT believe or to believe differently. Just as you don't want your children told homosexuality is okay, I don't want my child told that everyone MUST believe in God. I tell my child "this is what I believe, this is what others believe, I may not agree with them or even understand them, but they have that right." I honestly try to understand what others believe and why. This weekend I looked up the words atheist and agnostic in the encyclopedia to get at least a quick definition. Merlyn, I appreciate (as I feel others do to) your explanations about what "atheist" means. It is a misused and misunderstood word just as "pagan" and "witch" are. One more question -- should Girl Scouts be allowed to recruit during school hours? They also have "god" in their promise and they do not allow boys to join (men can be co-leaders and hold other positions). I do not know if they let atheists join and say something other than the promise.

The ACLU has done some good things over the years. A few years ago, I was subletting a mobile home lot to another person. The owner of the mobile home park flat out told me to get rid of her because she was black. Luckily it didn't have to go to a lawsuit, but we were ready to call the ACLU because in a case like that they are needed. I am one of the most liberal posters on this board, the first to stand up for freedom of religion. I think the ACLU has some much bigger battles they could be fighting instead of this. I've been discriminated against because I'm female. I was raised in a family where discrimination is a way of life --- based on race, color, gender, sexual orientation, religion, etc. I've seen both sides. I also see my son coming home from public school with spelling words of Christmas, Santa Claus, and such. I take the time to explain to him that not everyone celebrates Christmas and even some Christians celebrate it differently. I do not currently go to church, but I believe in a "higher power". I do not think that BSA recruiting or being chartered by public schools is a problem. BSA is being attacked because they publicly state their policies. This is very sad. Our school also allows church services in the cafeteria every Sunday morning. I have to meet certain requirements to go to "belong" to that church. And it is more "discriminatory" than BSA. It would be nice if Mr. LeRoy would answer the questions asked of him about his interest in this. Fellow Scouters, I will bow out of this conversation now.

Merlyn writes: "You seem to be in favor of Wiccans being discriminated against by your public school; do you want them to exclude Jews, too? " I can't figure out what I said that led you to believe that. I said THEY WOULD be discriminated against, but quietly. I DO NOT want them discriminated against. I probably know more about Wicca than you would imagine. I agree with Bob Russell, just been having a hard time putting it in words. If BSA is denied access because of it's belief in God, isn't that discrimination? Also rereading the definition of discrimination then the organization of Parents Without Partners is discriminatory -- you can't be married to join (well, actually you can be but have to have witnesses saying you are not living with your spouse. Wait! Since tax season is upon us...I get different deductions than my married friends. Discrimination! And I still hold that any school or government function held on Friday evening or Saturday is not right according this logic because there are recognized religious groups who call this time "Sabbath" and believe you should be praying, not partying, playing, etc.

From the original article: "Discrimination is defined as "any act that unreasonably differentiates treatment . . . based on age, disability, national origin, race, marital status, religion or sex." Notice the word "unreasonably". Forcing a child to stand in the hall while everyone else says the morning prayer, forcing someone to participate in a prayer they do not believe in, making fun of someone because of their religion, those are "unreasonable". Did anyone bad mouth this child or his mother because he didn't join Cub Scouts? Did the kids have to stand up in class to say if they joined or not? Did his name get published around as "did not join"? If his school is like ours, the pack is doing great to get 15 to 20% of the boys to join up AND stay. Belief in God is only ONE condition of joining Boy Scouts. All groups have some sort of conditions. As in my previous post, to join the football team my son must be able to play games on Friday night or Saturday. What if that is my Sabbath? Then he can't play based on MY religious beliefs. In fact he can't even attend the games as a student. But there is a pep rally on Friday afternoon, there is spirit week, etc. The school is pushing him to go. Is that discrimination? Our school do allow BSA to meet in the school building. Our pack is chartered by the local school. But I bet you that a specifically non-Christian group (such as Wicca) would be turned away if they wanted to use school property. Maybe not being told why, but there would be some "reason" why not. I'm all for religious freedom including the right to be an atheist. But I do not think this woman has a case for "unreasonable".