sctmom

My son is 10 1/2 years old and weighs about 55 pounds fully dressed! Quick calculation tells me he can only carry about 10 pounds of backpack. This is a problem just in carrying his school books every day. I sure hope he grows some in the next couple of years. I want him to backpack, I think he would enjoy it. One of the troops we are looking at has a weekend backpacking trip planned this month. The adults said it was something the boys really wanted to do. A few adults decided that it was NOT a good idea to have the boys have to give first aid for heart attacks, so they opted out. Personally I would also like to learn to backpack. I tend to take everything I own when camping. I live about 2 hours south of the Appalichian Trail. Would love to some day spend a night or two on the trail. Suggestions about how to get in physical shape for carrying the pack?

Isn't it also a little bit unethical and inhumane to trap a deer and put a vest on it? Ya think the deer likes that?

Back to OGE's original response about "Have a great whatever". I think that if someone wishes me a Happy (blank). Even if I do not celebrate (blank), I understand they are wishing me well, they aren't trying to convert me or insult me, particularly if they don't know my beliefs.

I respect people of all faiths. Some of my questions/comments are to stir the pot and make us all think (myself included). And I admire those who stand strongly by their faith even if I don't agree with them. But it seems we all agree that Politically Correct has come to mean "absurd". I do think many moms do forget that what is fun for a young boy is not the same as what is fun for a young girl, much less what is "fun" for a mom. My sister, brother and I usually had no one else to play with out in the country, so we all did both girl things and boy things. I try to always look at things from the boy's perspective when planning for my Webelos. And then convince the parents of what is being learned. Oh, my personal BB gun story is watching my sister stand on the propane gas tank, throwing ballons in the air while my brother shot at the ballons with the BB gun! They didn't get caught until they got turned around and the BB went through the living room window. For YEARS we had this little hole in the window. One of those times we saw my mother FLY out the door. The other was when she saw my brother playing darts....the dart board hanging on the swing set, oh yes the swing set about 5 kids were playing on. My brother going "what? I'm NOT going to miss"!

Dedicated Dad, you and your children can go say the Lord's prayer anywhere you want on school property but the school cannot lead you in saying it. Will you allow Muslims to say their prayers out loud? Or Jews? Or Native Americans? (all very true Religions) You write: Truth means fact not opinion and blurring the two with specious analogy simply furthers this common misinterpretation. Those who choose not accept the truth as absolute and unwavering are those who need to make the truth just an opinion. How many TRUTHS do you think there are? Where would we be if people didn't question the truth? The world would be flat, the sun would revolve around the earth, there would be no cures for diseases. Some "truths" must be questioned, not to prove them wrong but to understand why it is the TRUTH. Jews do not accept that Jesus is THE savior. Does that mean it is just their "opinion"? Only Christians are right and everyone else is wrong? Not arguing, just bringing up some thoughts. Also, as a female some of the "PC" is directed at me. I will tell you that much of it is absurd. As a teenager I worked in a small town hardware store. Many of the men were very uncomfortable about this. Some refused to have me wait on them -- they were the rude ones, like I didn't know where the screwdrivers where kept. Some of the men did things out of courtesy and respect -- such as refusing to let me put my hand in the bin of nails for them or picking up their own 50 lb. bag of fertilizer. That was politeness. At the time I was about 5'1" and weighed about 110 pounds, I COULDN'T pick up a 50 lb bag! It was very obvious the men who were doing for me because they respected me and those who would say things like "don't worry your pretty little head over it." My "little head" could out think them any day of the week! I knew more about hardware at 17 then a lot of men ever know. Don't pretend I'm one of the guys, I'm obviously not. But at the same time don't assume I can't do things simply because I'm female. Such as my mother-in-law who refuses to watch her grandson shoot the BB gun because "oh, you know how us grandma's are, something might happen, that's a man thing." Oh, PLEEZE! The boy needs to learn how to handle a gun. When she said this I realized why many men don't want women around Boy Scouts --- yikes that attitude doesn't belong around girls either!

"truth" doesn't always mean "moral". For many children in this country, the truth is that parents are dependable, take care of you, make you go to school, etc. The "truth" for some children is that adults cannot be trusted, people hurt each other every day, drugs are the only way over the pain, no one cares about you, etc. Some people do use their version of the "truth" to try to justify their actions or as an excuse. There are very few absolute truths that apply to everyone. Politically correct seems to have taken on the meaning of saying "nice" words so no one gets their feelings hurt, even if you don't believe what you say. So much of what I see the schools doing in the name of "politically correct" stems from ignorance. No one says you can't talk about Christianity in school, but you can't force a non-Christian child to say a Christian prayer (and this does still happen in some places). The non-Christian child should be able to stand up and say "here is what my family believes" without fear of harm or ridicule. The same way the Christian child should be able to get up and say why Jesus is important. So many school staff don't understand what is really being said or how to handle it, so they just come up with a way to avoid it. Then everyone loses. If I don't want my child to believe in something the majority of the community believes is right, then it is up to ME to tell him what he will hear and why I don't agree. I think we all run into this at some time or another. This happens concerning TV shows, popular toys, dating, etc. It is also my responsibility to teach my child to respect other people and their beliefs (within reason). I do not have the right to tell the child of an Atheist that his parents are wrong, the same as those parents should not be telling my child such. If I want to discuss the validity of their belief or lack thereof, I should discuss it with the adults. I teach my son to realize not everyone worships the same way, and that's okay. Okay, I'll step down off my soapbox now.

I recently read a book called "The Giver" by Lois Lowry. It is a small piece of fiction written for teenagers/young adults. The society in the book has become so uniform that everyone of a particular age must dress the same, everyone gets a bicycle at a certain age, words like "love" are not used because they are vague, the citizens are protected from doing anything "unsafe" (including reading the "wrong" books and having fires). The citizens are not allowed to make any choices because they may make the wrong ones. I highly recommend this book to adults, and then decide if your child is mature enough to read and understand it. It is considered very bad manners to ask about someone who is different. No one gets hurt because the "committee" makes sure of that. But also no one knows true happiness or love. I know I often come across as being PC, but I really think we need to recognize and discuss differences. Just using "polite" words doesn't change peoples thoughts. And we are all DIFFERENT. Men and women are different, people of different religions are diffent, people of different heritages are different. It doesn't make one better over another, just different. We should be able to say "That person is different, I don't understand them or I don't agree with them" without being labeled as "bad". If someone makes you say a prayer that goes against your religion, that is wrong. To ask you to stand silently while they say their prayer is not wrong, it is respect. To call someone a kike is very disrespectful and mean, but to say "that person is Jewish, I'm not and cannot believe what they do, so therefore I'm not going to say their prayer" is being honest. Not able to use the word "Balls"?? That is absurd! So when you play baseball you get 3 strikes or 4 WHAT????? Isn't this only encouraging the boys to think balls is a bad word. I remember that being one of those words that sent all the kids into hysterics in junior high.

Like Scoutmom, I am a single mother of an ADHD son about to graduate from Webelos. We have visited 2 troops and talked to the scoutmaster of 1 more. The boys want to have fun. My son is impressed if he is treated as one of the guys not a "kid". I look for a boy run troop, with active adults. I want to be welcomed as a parent to attend all functions but not have to. If there are a lot of active parents, the same ones don't have to attend everything. I liked the troop that showed us their yearly schedule of campouts and merit badges to be worked on in the troop meetings. It had been planned out by the boys and okayed by the adults. The adults were friendly to the boys and the parents, the scouts were also. The boys seem to be enjoying themselves but at the same time accomplishing the goal of the troop meeting. I was welcomed even on my surprise troop visit. The boys acted excited to see new scouts wanting to join their troop. Campouts every month, with a variety of locations and activities. If you don't like this month's activity, maybe you will be more interested in what is planned for next months. The troop should understand the boys may miss meetings because of sports, jobs or families. My son spends the summer out of town with relatives. As far as uniforms, the parts that are worn should be neat and worn correctly (shirt tucked in...grrrr that is a big complaint with me). The troop I didn't like had adults standing around the doorway smoking before the troop meeting. Adults cussing in "normal" conversation before the troop meeting. Adults making fun of others and bad mouthing others. Some parents told me, unsolicted, that this was a problem. Scoutmaster barely spoke when I introduced myself and mentioned bringing my Webelos den for a visit. He didn't seem to care, just walked away. As far as achieving rank and earning badges, I want to know the troop is working on these things but I also want my son to know it is not just about the awards. Being not yet 11 when he crosses over, he will have a good 7 years to be in Scouting, I don't want him burnt out in 3 years. When the group of Webelos from our pack visited the troop I liked, they were the center of attention. Afterwards I asked did they have fun. The answer was YES. When asked what they did, the answer was STUFF. So, fun stuff is what the boys want...lol. Oh, yeah, one other thing if you have website with picture of troop activities, that is great for the parents to look at after the visit. Pictures really are worth a thousand words.

KoreaScouter, Your children are lucky to be taught manners at home. Not all of scouting is for the children of the involved parents, but for the boys whose parents don't teach them these skills. Maybe the parents were never taught life skills or maybe they don't see the importance of learning them in order to work in the factory for the rest of your live. By the way, I just spoke with someone who is ex-military, who said that every sailor must know how to sew on a button and sew on a patch because it's hard to find a tailor when you are sea. I know the younger scouts won't care, but tell the older ones how many females they will impress and they will be all ears to find out what you are talking about. They will impress girls they date and the parents of those dates. After discussing hunting with the dad, they can discuss the finer points of cooking with mom.

I had my Webelos make butter by shaking a container of whipping cream for 20 minutes. Then they tasted it without salt, first. Then on saltine crackers to add the salt. Then we talked about ways to do it faster -- what kind of machine could you invent. I asked them what if you had to do that every time you wanted butter on your pancakes or other food --- one very quickly decided he would not eat butter! They did have fun with this because they were instructed to NOT sit still for 20 minutes! I wish I could get them a day on a real farm. We live in the suburbs of a major city. Most have seen farm animals but not done farm work. To spend time outside on a small working farm would be a lot of fun - cows, pigs, chickens. I would think the boys would love to learn semaphores and morse code --they love secret codes. Most like to be able to do things that others can't. Learning how to do some of the things OGE would probably be a big hit and goes along with the ways of scouting - making do with what you have, being independent, being resourceful. Have you ever seen the lumberjack competitions on TV? It is amazing to watch. Taxidermy? Maybe not, I guess it would require hunting . My brother enjoyed taxidermy as a hobby while a teenager. He considered doing it as a career. Also, remember a friend's brother tanning rabbit hides.

The badge requirements we don't want our sons working on: Applying nail polish and makeup Having your "colors" done so you can look stunning Making fancy outfits for your action figures Fashion shows Color coordinating your tent and sleeping bag A Few we do want them to learn: What a belt is for -- no one really wants to see your underwear Soap and water CAN be your friend Why you should pack underwear for summer camp Things you should not say in front of you MOM (no matter how funny it is, Mom MAY not be as impressed) Sleeping (at night!) Yes you can clean up after yourself at all times! Showing off your body noises at Grandma's family dinner is NOT a good idea, save it for the campout You will survive the weekend without your video games Do not roll your eyes when you are being lectured especially by a female How to use the washing machine for cleaning your uniform (I love the line of "your mama ain't in Boy Scouts) Some things the boys learn on their own: Ropes and tape can provide hours of entertainment Eating out of the pot you cooked in saves dishwashing Anything can be used as a projectile in a catapult The ability to burp the alphabet (I hear about my son's friends who have mastered this, what pride their parents must have) Anything can be a toy Any situation can quickly be turned into a game, possibly the type that drives adults crazy How to look innocent when saying "but you didn't say NOT to do THAT" How to look interested and concerned when your mother or teacher has "a talk" with you Ways to avoid soap How to turn ordinary objects into weapons

SSt3rd, I think our new local Venture Crew was started with scouts from many troops. Maybe that's an option in your district. Still have to have some dedicated adults.

Dedicated Dad, My point in bringing up quilting was only an example of that some real men do sew and still maintain their manly ways. But boys do need to learn a few things about sewing, some may want to pursue it more outside of scouts and should not be made fun of if they do. I agree that having a sewing badge would not go over well in our society, and most boys don't have the patience for it. The Barbie Doll Maintenance really didn't deserve a response. Girl Scouts don't even talk about such. They do talk about dolls as hobbies, including fixing them up to give to less fortunate children. Girl Scouts spend a lot of helping Girls find their talents and teaching them to stand up for themselves and be proud of being a Girl. They also discuss how to get along with boys. Many Girl Scout troops are very active in outdoors in camping, hiking, conservation, and sports. Even on similiar badges, Girls and Boys have a different way of earning them because Girls and Boys learn differently. It's whole different approach. I have Webelos Den, I know they can't sit still and listen for 3 minutes..lol. They are constant motion, as they should be as 10 year old boys. They have to have their hands busy, so if I don't give them something they will find something to do! I worry about the few boys I have seen that don't want to get dirty, find bugs, go outside, or shoot rockets & catapults.

Let's recap the serious part of the thread and some of the suggestions for inclusion in merit badges, new merit badges or changed merit badges..... 1) Gourmet cooking and how to be a chef somewhere beside the trail 2) Something about how clothes are made 3) Some simple lessons in sewing a patch or mending clothes while on the trail (fishing line & duct tape? - I'm not joking) 4) Manners (I like the James Bond badge) 5) Combining some badges 6) Linguistics - learn a foreign language 7) Learn about another culture 8) U.S. Flag Study 9) Bring back Botany 10) Bring back beekeeping 11) Competitive Swimming How about local history? Maybe that's connected to Citizenship. Anymore?

Excuse me -- my son has an Easy Bake oven and still enjoys it at 10 years old. I was shocked to find out they are PINK! Boys like to cook. Chefs make GOOD money! And must I remind you of the big football player of the 70's, Rosie Greer I think was his name, that did wonderful needlepoint, are you calling him a girl? And men do get manicures. At least you could address how to get the dirt out from under your fingernails using a toothpick or your pocketknife. From what many of us see, perhaps the boys could benefit in a discussion of choosing earrings. Response to "do these pants make me look fat?" --- no dear, you never look fat, you are absolutely beautiful, may I buy you some new diamonds now right after I clean the bathroom? Don't forget responses to "is that woman prettier than me?" And how to deal with "I'm not going to tell you what's wrong, you should already KNOW!" Serious question -- do the current badges adequately show the boys about careers in different fields?

Dedicated Dad, I think we are thinking along the same lines. I agree wording would have to be done carefully so boys don't run from badges -- like I said I don't think they want to fashion shows or to sit around sharing feelings and tears. Once the boys are teens, convince them that knowing about cooking or such will win over girls, and I'm sure they will be interested. I'm not wanting to feminize boys or boy scouts, but let's recognize those differences and celebrate them. At the same time, realize that stereotypes are generalizations only, if a boy is interested in Interior Decorating, he should not be made to feel something is "wrong" with him. They need to know they don't have to be a jock to be a man. Men are helping more at home with working wives, some men choose to be stay at home dads, some men are raising children alone -- they need to know some domestic things that previously the women handled. All of these subjects would have to be approached in a male way. There are differences in the way females and males approach learning, life, religion, relationships, etc. I'm as upset as you about the melding of genders, each have so much to bring to the world and to each other. I'm VERY serious when saying teach the boys to be proud of being male. Back to social graces, I once talked to some college teachers who had a class for freshmen that covered subjects like how to order in a resturant whose menu is NOT on the wall. They said you would be amazed at the number of 18 year olds who had never been to a sit down resturant and ordered a meal, much less knew how to set a table, or manners about passing food, using forks, etc. Gone are the days of the little old lady with the school that taught girls to be ladies and boys to be gentlemen. Merit badge in female psychology??? Hmmm....that would be as impossible as Girl Scouts having a badge in male psychology?? hehehe And if ANYONE figures out the answer to EITHER, they can make a mint on the book and the talk show circuit, forget earning a badge! I promise not to recommend merit badges that cover proper use and sharing of the remote control, toilet seats, toothpaste tops, and when body noises are NOT funny.

"I would, however, call it garment manufacturing or something similar so not to stigmatize it with any more of a feminizing appearance than necessary. I wouldnt be in favor of an interior decorating merit badge for similar reasons, I think the feminization of men/boys is counterproductive to the program. " It isn't about the feminization but about teaching skills that are very important, but often stereotyped as "female only" in our current society. How do you handle the boy who is interested in something that is "woman like" such as nursing? There are many stereotypes of men that boys need to be made aware of. Instead of continuing these stereotypes find a way to teach the boys they are not true. I like OGE's ideas too. The Cub Scouts used to have to learn how to tie a necktie. For some boys you could start how to dress proper with how to wear a belt and how to pull up your pants. A lesson in why showers are good and why soap is good.

Based on a thread under the uniform section --- tailoring (or sewing). My son loves to work with my sewing machine. Many women I know say their husbands get really excited when helping them shop for new electronic, computerized sewing machine. And as I said in the other thread, many men find quilt making requires similiar thinking skills as house building or wood working. There is a famous quilt teacher on TV who is male. He said the other side benefit of teaching quilt class and seminars is he gets to spend a day or more in the company of a bunch of women, who hang on his every word and make sure he is well fed.

Tiger Cub Scouts (first graders) now have an achievement of sewing a button on a piece of fabric. Maybe we are headed in the right direction. A long time ago weavers were men, they wove fishing nets. I make quilts, many men have found they are good at quilt design and quilt making. Quilt design and making requires understanding geometry and measurements. Some men compare it to building a house.

I would love to see a different cooking badge. My son loves to cook. Men need to know how to cook at home for themselves and the family as well as on the trail. This might include how to set a table and proper table manners (which fork do I use? what is that extra glass for?) Being a chef is great career for many. I also like your idea about Linguistics. Maybe also a badge to learn a lot about another culture --- foods, language, customs, education, etc. I noticed Personal management is more about financial management. How about a merit badge that covers time management? Some other subjects I would like to see covered (and I'm NOT trying to just be Politically Correct) are conflict resolution, personal hygiene, how to dress properly, finding out about your values, dealing with peer pressure, respect for girls, respect for those who are different. I know these are by-products of Scouting now, but really address them. It doesn't have to be touchy feely group hugging stuff, but get it out there in the open. Okay, I'll admit it, I've been reading Girl Scout literature. Seriously, if you look at some of their badges for the same age group you will see some things that many boys aren't learning and need to know! I know the approach will have to be different with boys, and I doubt the boys will want to do a fashion show, but still these are things that boys need to learn. Years ago, boys didn't have to worry about what to wear to school, not much of a choice. But there are many choices now for boys, and how to wear their hair, jewelry, etc. Make the boys think about what values are, make them think about what really matters to them.

May I also add that I rode past the local small town city hall last night and loved the lighted "Holiday" decorations. No manger scene (the banks and churches have put those out). But city hall has a wonderful lighted rocking horse that really moves, as well as various lighted decorations that are trees, holly leaves and carolers. And, Yes, the city still puts the Christmas decorations up on the utility poles down the main streets in town.

A little humor (got this in an email) A modern-day, politically-correct holiday greeting: Please accept with no obligation, implied or implicit, our best wishes for an environmentally conscious, socially responsible, low stress, non-addictive, gender neutral, celebration of the winter solstice holiday, practiced within the most enjoyable traditions of the religious persuasion of your choice, or secular practices of your choice, with respect for the religious/secular persuasions and/or traditions of others, or their choice not to practice religious or secular traditions at all; and a fiscally successful, personally fulfilling, and medically uncomplicated recognition of the onset of the generally accepted calendar year 2002, but not without due respect for the calendars of choice of other cultures, and without regard to the race, creed, color, age, physical ability, religious faith, choice of computer platform, or sexual preference of the wishees. By accepting this greeting, you are accepting these terms. This greeting is subject to clarification or withdrawal. It is freely transferable with no alteration to the original greeting. It implies no promise by the wisher to actually implement any of the wishes for her/himself or others, and is void where prohibited by law, and is revocable at the sole discretion of the wisher. This wish is warranted to perform as expected within the usual application of good tidings for a period of one year, or until the issuance of a subsequent holiday greeting, whichever comes first, and warranty is limited to replacement of this wish or issuance of a new wish at the sole discretion of the wisher.

Mike, What time will that ham be ready? We are all on our way over to sample it.

I remember some high school boys being punished by having to move a stack of boards from one side of the parking lot to the other. And then back again. And again..and again.... All day on a Saturday. Whatever they had done, they never did again. This was something everyone was physically capable of doing yet was so tedious that they got the point. I know with my son those "oh you would never make me do that" type of punishments are the best. Something that is so extremely out of the ordinary they can't imagine what else you would come up with. It gets to a point that time out and taking away TV just doesn't do any good. A few days ago I found evidence of my 10 year old WEBELOS scout having played with matches and a candle, including a burnt pencil. His punishment is going to be to do some research on dangers of fire and fire safety, and write Mom a nice 3 page report about it (it can include pictures). Ground him? Take away TV or video games? Big deal -- make him write -- oh the agony. Just seems like there are other things scoutmasters can do than push ups or running laps for most scout misbehavior. An assistant scoutmaster told me about taking some boys camping last spring. The day was nice and warm but would get cold once the sun went down. All of these boys had been in scouting for at least 1 year. Before leaving he asked everyone if they had their coats. Everyone said yes and the parents agreed. Sun goes down, scouts get cold, two don't have coats. Well, then the warm place for you is in your sleeping bag INSIDE your tent, sleep tight, everyone with their coats are enjoying the campfire. Talk about a natural consequence to forgetting something!

Last night I suddenly remembered a story about a snipe hunt I read online. The adults heard about the planned hunt before the campout. They put a chicken (can't remember if it was alive or dead) in a bag and hid it at camp. They told the intended "victims" what was going on and to play along. The "victims" were then to go retrieve the chicken and return to camp with their "snipe" to eat for dinner. Sure surprised the planners of the snipe hunt! Okay, now let's all give OGE a big group hug to help him heal..... WAIT, I forget there is NO hugging in BOY Scouts! (it's a joke guys, just picking on you)