sctmom

First, I want to tell Sdriddle you have started the most active "discussion" this board has seen in a couple of months. hehehe Bob, I stand up and applaud you. Dan, you also. Dan says: Hazing and Initiations All forms of hazing, initiations, ridicule, or inappropriate teasing are prohibited and should not be allowed. Making someone sing a silly song is ridicule. Therefore a form of hazing. Hazing doesn't have to be physical. Even though that scout that just threw up because of being ridiculed may argue that his was a physical event. All of you that are for this type of "discipline" say that it is trivial. Well, why risk losing boys over something so trivial? Losing items is one of those things that has truly natural consequences --- spend time looking for it, do without it, replace it or explain to others why you lost it. Yes, my son would have to answer to me if he lost something, especially if it is something I paid for or need to replace. I can tell you if I forgot my sleeeping bag you wouldn't have to make me sing a song to have learned a lesson. I forgot the campstove on a personal campout a couple of years ago. I learned my lesson, it's hard to cook certain things over a charcoal fire. Been camping about 10 times since then and have yet to forget the campstove. Didn't sing one note! A few months ago after my son's first troop campout, there was the normal collection of items at the next troop meeting that had ended up at the wrong homes. The owners had to come forward and get them. Nothing else was said or done, those kids were embarrassed enough to walk up in front of the troop to get their coat (big thing to lose) or other item. Again, is it worth losing scouts over something that is so small and simple? It may be small and simple to you, but to a kid it could be devastating. You decide. Dan and Bob, you can sit next to me and OGE.

Quixote writes: Sctmom - when your son comes home and you make him pay for that tube of toothpaste he lost, don't complain when he calls child protective services to report you for abuse He only wishes that was the worst thing he has to complain to me about. And I only wish that was the WORST thing he did!! :-O We're talking about singing here folks, not public flogging. For some people standing up in front of a group, no matter what size, and even speaking their name is enough to make them faint. There is just NO POINT in making them sing to get something back. Nothing will be gained from it. If the boys just joke about it, then is it changing their behavior?

If my son loses something at a campout there are some very "natural" consequences that will take place. If it is a personal item, he will first of all need to spend some time looking for it, then he will have to do without, then when he returns home he has to explain what happened to that item, and likely replace the item with "his" money. If it is a troop owned item, basically the same thing -- spend time looking, do without (peer pressure may be pretty tough here if he lost the stove or dinner), explain what happened, and replace the item in some form or fashion. What is really learned by embarrassing a child in front of the group? For some, probably many, it will be that people are mean. Yes, boys need the valuable lesson of getting up in front of the crowd and speaking. But isn't it a lot easier to learn that in a "friendly" environment --- giving a demonstration, than in a case where everyone is going to laugh at you. Getting rid of this type of hazing is NOT catering to every boy's fear. It is NOT part of the standards for being a Scout, earning rank or merit badges. If certain boys are always leaving things laying around camp, I think a good consequence is to assign them to clean up the camp every few hours or as often as necessary. Just so many other ways to accomplish the lesson without resorting to embarrassement. Oh, back to Bob White's comment about not letting a kid borrow anything if he loses everything. The first troop campout my son went on a few months ago, he wanted to take 5 flashlights! Why? The SM stood up and said a few simple words "Don't forget your flashlight, because you are NOT borrowing MINE! We will be setting up in the dark." Every new scout in that troop had a flashlight in hand with fresh batteries and no telling how many in their packs. Simple AND straightforward --- they understood!

My son attended his first Court of Honor last week. The troop had 12 new scouts at this COH! Yes, 12 new ones! That's about a 50% increase for the troop. Actually there are a few more but they were not there that night. Each scout presented himself to audience with the scout sign, his name and rank. Great to hear such enthusiasm as those boys said "New Scout". Most of them also received their first merit badge, some got 2 or 3 merit badges! Now everybody is getting revved up for summer camp in July. Just had to share how nice it was to see the boys proudly present themselves and receive their recognition.

From what I understand you should first contact your council to find out the rules about sponsors. Each council has it own set of rules about what sponsors can and cannot do. They should also be able to help you with getting sponsors.

By the time I was old enough to remember much, my parents were camping in a pop-up camper. Until I was about 10 years old, my "bed" was my old crib mattress on the floor of the camper. My parents had one of the camper beds and my brother and sister the other bed. Taking the crib mattress is not good for tent camping, but if you have a pop-up or plan to get one, save that crib mattress. They come in handy.

I agree with OGE and Bob White. My son's best friend (who is like a second son to me) is very bashful in front of a group. He has been away at his father's for the school year and is now returning to our area. He was in my Cub Scout den for awhile. I thought he was going to pass out when he had to lead the den in a flag ceremony (he stood frozen and not breathing). That was a HUGE deal to him. I wish I had had more time to work with him on that in the small group setting of the den. A few weeks ago he went to a troop meeting with us. Our troop introduces all new boys by calling them up front and asking their name. Making sure the troop knows their name. This is not to embarrass the boys at all. My son pointed out his friend was a visitor and to introduce him. The boy was upset afterwards. Yes, he got over it. But if you told him he had to sing a song or do some other stunt in front of the group to get a lost item, he just would not do it. He would also never return to the troop. While all boys can benefit from Scouting, he is one of those that NEEDS Scouting -- a safe haven, a place to feel welcome. Are you willing to risk losing all the other boys like him over something like this? Do you have to sing the teapot song at work when you lose something? No, you go find it or you get a replacement. Natural consequences work best, singing is NOT a natural consequence. When you misplace your car keys, do you walk down the street singing in front of your neighbors? I doubt it. The whole point of these "rituals" is to embarrass. No kid needs that, especially boys of this age group. For many of them walking out of the house is embarassing enough. As far as having a patrol sing a song or do a skit, that is not done to embarrass anyone. It is to improve the boys ability to stand in front of the group and talk. I told the other boy's mom this the other night when she told me he gets so upset of "being put on the spot". I talked to her about not pushing him into scouting, just let him visit and make up his own mind. Also, I explained how this is one of those great things they can learn in scouting--talking in front of a friendly crowd.

After this incident, he decided he should carry his first aid kit on his bicycle. The next day HE fell and banged himself up pretty bad. When his buddies came helping home, he had already applied bandages to himself. He said when he fell, he had his friend hand him the first aid kit! Now he's been walking around for 2 days with an ace bandage on his arm (that is bruised at the most). But he was more willing to be treated (cleaning, ice packs) than ever before. He also wants saddle bags for the bike so it is easier to carry the first aid kit.

Just a few months ago my son crossed over to a troop. First campout some of us parents went along. There were some problems with the actions of the older boys. Some parents choose to leave the troop immediately. I'm glad I stayed. When it all "hit the fan", I found the scoutmaster very open to what I had to say. He admitted some mistakes and started correcting them immediately (we were still at the campsite). Sometimes the boys are trying to show off in front of each other -- bad language and inapproriate topics seems to be a top choice for "showing off". Sometimes the boys just need a quick scoutmaster conference to remind them of approriate behavior and things calm down. I hope that some of the boys will also step in and correct a boy who is in the wrong. Most likely the younger ones will not venture there or will just be picked on about it. Bottom line -- give the Scoutmaster a chance to correct the situation. Give the Eagle Scout another chance to prove himself to you and your son.

There are some home-schooling parents on this board that hopefully can answer this from prior experience. I don't homeschool but know some about it. This is my opinion only. Does your son have a Merit Badge Counselor for this badge? It should be worth your time and your son's time to hunt down an "official" merit badge counselor for this badge. In our state homeschooled children do have to take standarized test periodically. I think showing an improvement in those scores or those scores showing your child is in the upper 20% of children the same age would satisfy requirement #1. Note from the principal -- I would think some proof from you of his work in the areas of scholarship, service, etc. Does he help siblings with schoolwork? How does he behave about doing his school work? Does he show leadership and service in the family, neigborhood, etc? Do you do things with other homeschooling families where you son shows leadership (helping other kids with work)? School extracirricular -- has he done anything above and beyond standard homeschooling? Again, do you interact with other homeschoolers and do "extra" things? Does he play sports? I know that community sports is not normally extracirricular but I think the intent is that the student is involved in more than just basic academics ---sports, drama, band, clubs, etc. Home schooled scouts aren't that unusual. The other night I heard that one of the scouts in our troop is about to "graduate" after 12 years of home schooling. His sister is already in college and he has a teenager brother a couple of years younger.

I think the minimum height is implied by their chart that starts at 5 feet. There is a comment about hikers must be able to carry 40 or 50 pounds. Obviously my 60 pounder isn't going to carry 40 pounds of gear anywhere!

When I saw the subject line I immediately was thinking at the OTHER end of the scale -- my son is about to be 11 years old, weighs 60 pounds (fully dressed) and is about 52 inches tall. LOL

I just have to brag on my son, a new young scout (not yet 11). Yesterday he was riding bikes with other kids in front of our house, when a younger child fell and scraped his arm pretty bad. By the time I could get to the street, my son was running for his personal first aid kit (put together for Scouting). He did a wonderful job of calming the child down, cleaning the wound, explaining to the child how to care for the wound and how often to change the bandage. He also used latex gloves and knew to throw them away afterwards and even washed his hands! With soap! He learned much of this at Merit Badge Day/College 2 months ago. I was concerned he had not learned much that day due to the size of the class. Not to mention my son has ADHD and did not take his medicine that day. He proved me wrong! I was very proud of him. He now wants to make another first aid kit to attach to his bike in case of other emergencies. He was also concerned that the child was going into shock (better safe than sorry).

A couple I've had scouts do with only a few minutes to practice: Emergency Broadcast: All the scouts make a humming/buzzing noise like the Emergency Broadcast Signal. One scout (or an adult) says: "This has been a test of the emergency broadcast signal. If this had been a real emergency here is what you would have heard." Then all the boys run off the stage screaming and waving their arms. Imaginary Bench: First boy walks out and acts like he is sitting on a bench. Next boy comes and says "What are you doing?" First boy says "sitting on this imaginary bench". Second boy joins first boy on the "bench". Each scout walks out and asks the same question, gets the same answer. Last scout walks out and asks question, gets answer then says "But I moved that bench yesterday." All the boys fall on the ground. Those work great because it doesn't matter how many boys you have. Don't be afraid to have the boys read their lines from a piece of paper. Any skit is better than no skit. The hardest part will be to get the boys to talk LOUDLY and CLEARLY.

I was shocked to find out some women don't want their husbands to go to summer camp! I think your wives are the ones getting the vacation.

A few other unrecognized "great leaders": parents grandparents siblings teachers religious leaders A few I personally know: The young scout who helps look after his grandmother with Alzheimers. The boy who has kept up with his classwork even though he was in the hospital for chemo treatment. The elementary school principal who is at every after-school event -- skate night, dances, etc. even though no one requires him to be. The Scouters who take their vacation time to attend Summer Camp so the boys can go.

ADD is often a diagnosis given to children who really have other problems. My niece showed symptoms of being ADD, but is actually bipolar (manic-depressive). She can become violent over incidents like you described. Too bad that the mother thinks "boys will be boys" is what is going on. You can't expect boys to always be in view of the adults. What about shower time at camp? Or after the boys go into their tents? There are lots of situations where the boys may be without direct adult supervision.

Eleanor Roosevelt for NOT divorcing Franklin when he was unfaithful, that would have destroyed his political career and she knew he could do good things for peopl. Also, she was behind a lot of his policies.

Being from Georgia, I like Jimmy. He is a very intelligent and honest man. Read something recently about how he tried to look at all sides of an issue, which looked like weakness in the Presidency. Jimmy teaches Sunday School periodically in Plains. It's a big thing to get to go hear him, folks other than Baptists go to hear him teach. He has done a lot with Habitat for Humanity. I've heard they about once a month he and Mrs. Carter go to the Carter Library to do some work. A few weeks ago I went to the Carter Library and museum. There is an exact replica of the Oval Office, decorated as it was during his term. A recording is playing of Carter talking about being president. Part of is him talking about the first time he was alone in the Oval Office. He looked about and thought "wow, I can do anything I want, I can move that chair or open the drapes." He was in awe that HE could arrange the furniture in the Oval Office (we won't get into what other presidents thought THEY could do with their power in that office).

I'm have to brag --- I'm NOT old enough to have voted for Reagan twice, much less vote for Nixon. Nixon was the first president I even remember! The older I get the less I think like my parents. But my parents think differently than anyone else I've ever met or talked to. I'm very happy and proud to say I don't think like my parents! My brother, sister and I avoid all conversations with Dad that include words like liberal, conservative, politics, President, etc. Just best not to go there. I prefer to think of myself as Independent. Which includes wanting my son to learn facts now so that when he his brain has matured he will have the knowledge to think critically about issues.

This is obviously a local tradition the mother is referring to. A good turn is basically any good deed, preferably done without being asked. Some people just have the boys do one good turn to get their Bobcat turned over. There is nothing written that says you have to do that.

How can one think critically without FIRST knowing the facts? I am a firm believer that the facts can be taught without always being dry, sometimes it will be dry. OGE, you and I are sounding mighty "conservative" on this thread. What is this world coming to?

I think it is important that you talk to the parents. Explain the part of about Duty to God and a Scout is reverent. Explain what type of services are available. This should be the parent's decision. I do not go to church nor make my son go to church. BUT if he is on a scout outing, with or without me, he is to participate. I can see not wanting a child to participate if it is REALLY against your own religion. I signed my son up for an organization that says he will do his duty to God. He might actually learn something by attending vespers/church service. I would be upset if someone was trying to convert him to a specific religious sect. I would be upset, for example, if he came home saying "they said we are not going to heaven because we don't go to church". The troop he is in does have grace before meals and church services on troop campouts. The troop campout I attended the scoutmaster told an inspirational story he had read recently and tied it into everyday life for everyone there. Just my two cents worth.

What a great story! In our area all school's use the signs up. Actual it is "hands up". The first thing they are taught in Kindergarten is that if you see an adult with their hand in the air, then up goes your hand and zip goes your mouth. Thanks for sharing your memories. I like the young woman with the twins buddy system!

I'm just going to repeat what others have said -- Keep up the good work. You can attend summer camps outside of your council. Sounds like the council has some problems with summer camp and instead of trying to fix them, they want to force people to attend. The troop my son just joined doesn't attend the same camp each year. No boy wants to go to the same camp 4 years in a row. The adults look for a camp that has nicer showers and cooler weather than our council camp.