sctmom

He crossed over in March. Has 2 physical fitness requirements to prove, SM conf & BOR to get Tenderfoot. He will have a hold up on 2nd class and 1st class because of swimming. There are about 15 scouts that joined at the same time. There are a lot of scouts reaching Eagle (about 14/15 years old). And not much in between. He isn't as loud and rowdy as most of the other boys, but given half a chance would be a leader type. I have talked up merit badges, campouts (he likes the activities but gets really worn out so doesn't want to spend the night), day activities, the stuff he learned at summer camp. I'm really wondering if even if it was the perfect troop would he get anything out of it. He would at least not be bored and saying "no fun" but is it worth it. He's very active about playing outside and building things without being in scouts. He does more scout-like things on his own than he does IN scouts! I mentioned making a cardboard box oven and he reminded me that I never did show him how during Cubs and he still wants to learn that. He likes things like that -- some odd way of doing things. So, I guess over the next week or so, I need to decide how much effort am I willing to put into trying to change the troop. Most of the troops around here about the same. Do I spend my time and energy trying to fight this battle or do something else? Anybody got a crystal ball so they can answer that for me??????

Is there a place to find some of these games? Is that in the Troop Program Features?

My son's new excuse "the cat stole my pencil from my hand".

The patrol leader and troop guides are at a loss too. They just do what has always been done. I think a lot of the boys are there because they just don't want to fight the parents about it. They figure it's just easier to go with the flow, earn the Eagle and fight other battles at home. At this point my son refuses to go to any meetings. For 6 weeks now I have been going round and round with him about this, offering suggestions, etc. Some weeks we actually make it to the meeting place then he stops in the parking lot and goes back to the car. He acted interested in patrol activities that I suggested but I can't get him into the building! None of us feel that any big bad thing has happened to him. He has been questioned numerous times and ways about that. I'm tempted to keep going to meetings myself and he can sit in the car or outside the building if he wants. Then if I am successful in getting some outdoor fun going, he will see it and want to join in. Again, these are good people at the troop but everyone is in a rut.

So what does a good troop meeting look like to a boy scout? What does a good campout look like to a boy scout? I'm talking about the ones that the boys look forward to and they think were fun.

IT IS NOT FUN! That's what my son says. It is not fun. We do nothing in meetings but listen to somebody talk. We never play any games even while camping. All the boys just want to sit around in the evenings. Troop meetings consist of announcements, talk of the campout that just happened or the campout that is about to happen, somebody trying to teach a merit badge that a lot of the boys have no interest in. What happened to that fun that we saw on the troop visits? The games they played, the patrol competitions. My son also remembers boys from another troop that used to be at some Cub Scout campouts with their families, these kids always played. They loved free time. Always a game of manhunt, capture the flag, some form of touch football, whatever. He has a few other minor compliants but I think those are just annoynances compared to NO FUN. Numerous people have talked to my son about this -- scouters and non-scouters. Nothing seems to really stand out except for it's not fun. Remember Webelos? Yes, we had "work" but we had a hands on activity (even if it was just learning setting up the tent and sitting in it) at every meeting. There were things to build, not just crafts but electrical circuits and rockets and catapults. Campouts were fun even when there was nothing planned, just being outside was fun. He's not interested in the badges. He wants to learn new, neat stuff and have fun. The other nearby troop he is not interested in because he knows the kids there and doesn't get along with them very well. Also, the time we visited their troop meeting it was also a lot of talking and nothing else. I understand how easy it is to get into the trap of focusing on badges and requirements, but I think they are losing a lot of boys over it. The adults in the troop are willing to listen to any suggestions I have, but will it change quickly? How hard do I push for change? Can it happen quickly enough to save the new scouts that crossed over this year?

How long is the SM going to last if he does everything himself? Troops are not designed to be one-man shows. What are the scouts learning about leadership if they don't have regular meetings? If the major voices of the committe are the SM and his wife, then this doesn't sound like a troop or a troop committee. It sounds like a family project and if you are so graced as to be in their circle you can play, but at any time you can be cut out? How does he justify a troop guide that is not 11 years old yet? I guessing he also appointed the SPL. Do the boys make ANY decisions on their own?

Yaworksi, I'm sure they will be glad to double my pay! Chances are I'll help the pack that I came from. I left under good terms when my son crossed over. I don't know what their current issues are since I haven't been there since March. I do know the Cubmaster does a lot on his own and could use some support. Also he will be wanting to step down in the next year or two. There is one pack I know has fallen apart, so if they tell me nothing is wrong with it, I will KNOW they are lying. I have seen the ADC around over the past couple of years before she became ADC. She is energetic, loves the program and wants everyone to have fun. I remember hearing her at roundtable one night praising the Outdoor Leader's training and encouraging everyone to go. My impression of her is that she loves the program, wants the boys, families & leaders to have fun, and believes in having a plan and being organized. One item on my list of "remembers" is that most of the packs have never had a UC, so it will be an adjustment.

I am starting to look at being a UC for Cub Scouts. I am in the process of talking to the ADC for our district. I think this sounds like a good position for me. I love to spread the word and help people find resources. I'm a information junkie! What are questions I should ask the ADC? What are things I should consider before taking on this job?

I only attend a Roundtable a few times as a Webelos Leader. The parts that I remember and liked the best were singing songs, playing games, having an indoor scavenger hunt, acting out an advancement ceremony. Usually I already knew the "news" part from our cubmaster. The "fun" things were the things I couldn't wait to share with the other leaders and to do with the boys.

Not a book for children, but if you want to read a great book about the founding of our country, read "John Adams" by David McCullough. I just saw it in paperback at Costco this week. It is well written and tells a lot of truths that are not normally mentioned. Mud-slinging among politicians is NOT new! The worst criticism I have heard about the book so far is that McCullough was biased toward Adams and not towards Franklin and Jefferson. Well, the book IS about Adams. He doesn't try to condemn any of the men of that time and doesn't sugar coat things.

Here is one thing I didn't learn in history classes. Just learned about this a few years ago. The Japanese camps here in the United States during World War II! Bennett is right that Lincoln preserved the Union, he wasn't out to free the slaves.

Stressbaby, I think this troop has some serious problems. No weekly meetings? Ten year old troop guide (who is probably not First Class yet)? "Founding" SM who gets to make all the rules? I recommend you take a look at what your son is getting from this troop. Also, what other troops are in the area. Go back to why you choose this one over others. If there are no other troops, if you have to decide how to get things right (a big effort). My son's troop is not perfect by any means, but the SM is not a dictator. All the adults are working for the same reason -- the boys. I've seen the committee turn to the SM looking for his decision and he states his opinion and then says "I work for YOU, what does the committee think?" The boys choose things they want to do for the next year. The calender is set and posted on the website, so everybody knows when every campout is for the next year. The troop meets weekly, year around. The only thing that might interfere is a major holiday. The boys and safety come first at all times. The adults in our troop may not always agree with each other but try to remember we are adults and remember why we are there. There is enough work to go around for everybody. Everybody tries to help out where they can use their skills the best and leave others to do what they do best. Bottom line --- look for another troop.

I am no expert about running troop meetings, but sounds like you need a Scoutmaster's Handbook. There are some other manuals that I'm sure Bob White and others can also recommend. The Scoutmaster's Handbook has it all laid out about weekly troop and patrol meetings. It starts with the first month for a new troop and then includes a few more months with certain activities stressed (like hiking, camping). Then there are other books that include plans for whatever the boys want to work on. There are also books for the Senior Patrol Leader and the Patrol Leader. I personally can't imagine not having regular troop meetings. Also, the troop committee should have meetings once a month.

Crazy Silver Sharks -- I like it. They could hum the Jaws theme for a Patrol yell.

Rooster said: "However, parents must recognize that sometimes the effort required by the SM and/or the troop is beyond the call of duty. " I fully agree. I do not expect anyone person to take on my child as much as I do. I do hope the newspaper article was lacking a lot. The SM should not be shouldering ALL the responsibility at any troop, especially with the special cases (no matter what the case). I also agree that if someone can't handle a situation I would much rather them be honest about it than to hide from it. But this article states that the scoutmaster drew the line of "him or me" pretty quickly. Were other adults involved with this decision? Did all troop adults agree with this decision? ScouterPaul said: "The Scout was offered alternative solutions before being asked to leave the Troop. The Mother refused all solutions. " Can you say what alternatives? I gathered from the article that other men stepped forward to be responsible for the young man and that was not an option. Scoutparent, Some of the autistic websites I have read say that highly functioning autistic people do live on their own as functioning citizens. You are right that many if not most ADD/ADHD children are gifted. That is part of the paradox in dealing with them, they are gifted in some areas then have these behavior problems. When I first started thinking my child as ADHD, our school actually would not comment on it. They have been the complete opposite of so many schools that insist a child should be on medication. They were cooperative in filling out the surveys for the private counselor we saw. I constantly monitor my son's medication and dosage. He has medication "holidays" and I can see big difference. Luckily his only problems off the medication is related to doing schoolwork, it does not affect social behaviors. My son does have a tendency to be violent. Usually I'm the target. He has gotten into a few minor scrapes at school when the teasing goes too far (often the teasing is just because he is short and act immaturely). On a broader subject, if you are working with a child who has behavioral problems, remember that often the children are very angry with themselves if they slip up about something. Then they lash out even more. I have found that if I let my son know he is angry at himself and I know that is why he is lashing out, it seems to settle him down. He still must suffer the consequences of his actions. I let him know (after he calms down) it's okay to be angry and mad, but you don't hurt other people or tear up things because of it.

I've seen a special section in the Atlanta Journal & Constitution (covers dixie like the dew) for Scouting as recently as 2 years ago. TV? Is that the big black box sitting in my living room that has wires attached? Darn, I forgot what it was, hasn't been on in so long. Take Mrs. Bush's advice and turn it off on Wednesday, spend some time with your children, especially the younger ones.

"We know how to deal with "humpers," must of us aren't prepared to deal with kids who smear feces on the wall. " That is not what is being talked about! A child doing that is going to cause a lot more problems, probably be unable to communicate, wander off at all times of the night, scream at strange times, etc. I know a Cub leader who has a daughter like that. Therefore the family doesn't camp, he just can't take the risk of her walking out of the tent at night. Let's consider another scenario. SM: Your son is no longer a part of this troop. Either he goes or I quit. Mom: Fine, let's go. Wait, I brought other children with me, I have to go get them. SM, I can't believe you being such an A** about this. This is f*** ridicously. (thinking my son is devasted, he loved scouts so much and was learning so much personal responsibility) SM: You need to leave now. Again, I can't fathom that your child would do SUCH A THING! It's so disgusting and abnormal. (thinking this boy needs to be in an institution, the whole family is nuts, why doesn't he just use the toilet?) I'm reminded of the time a few years ago when my son went into meltdown at the baseball park before a little league game. I'm standing there alone with him, my hands full with lawn chair, keys, etc. He goes into "brain lock" and kicks me. I take the glove and bat from him (potential weapons). He is at the point of no return. I am trying to remove him from the situation and get back to the car. If I turn loose of his arm, he will dart out into the traffic or attack me, he is hitting and kicking and screaming. I'm juggling bat, chair, glove, keys in one hand. The parents are all standing there whispering. One coach looks at us and says "You're lucky you aren't my son right now". I looked the man in the eye and said "For 5 bucks he can be." Don't know where that came from! Was that me? Do you know that man has always been very nice to me since then and very concerned about my son. I think he realized that I was doing the best I could and there was more than met the eye. Maybe we should all have signs around our necks that list out all of our problems. Then things would be simplier.

Yaworski, You are right, we have part of the story. Just like every post on this forum and every other forum, regardless of the subject. Yet that doesn't stop most from giving advice, does it? Scoutparent wasn't so eager to kick "humper" out of the troop. Wanted to look at his background, did he know he did wrong, how did he feel afterwards. But hey, here is a kid that has such a strange problem, get rid of him. I'm also very amazed none of you have picked up on a bigger issue (one I stress constantly with my son, especially around swimming pools) --- health. One person who is the least bit "unclean" in as swimming pool can make others very sick. When I sent my son to summer camp, I provided him with lots of plastic grocery bags with instructions of disposing of any soiled underwear and washing himself thoroughly if there was a problem. He also knows he better not get in the pool if there is any chance he might have an incident.

Does this troop kick out every boy who has an "altercation" with another scout? From what I read on here and what I have seen, most troops don't do that. There is a boy my son has been in school with for about 5 years. I knew that C. is shy and not like the other kids. He has no sense of personal space (which drives my sensitive son up the wall). He is what you might consider "immature". As he gets older he will be considered "eccentric". Last year I found out he has a form of autism. I'd been around the kid in a few different situations and never knew. He's been at my house before. I thought he was a bit bold and loud at times, but never dawned on me he had a disability. So it is very possible the adult leaders never noticed anything different, even if they were told the boy was autistic. They probably thought "okay, whatever, he seems normal enough." The mother admitted she said things she should not have said. Her son was in the car crying because he had been kicked out. Is this reason to remove the family from scouting? Is she the only parent to have said something in anger in front of boys? Are you going to kick out the boy who cusses in front of the troop or is telling the crude joke?

So I should pull my son out of Scouts because sometimes he has a problem? Or I should put him in a troop that includes boys that are so severly handicapped they will never live on their own? Geez, thinking about this, there are so many thing I didn't tell the troop -- how my son pinched my arm so hard I have a bruise, the time he locked himself in the restroom at school during a meltdown, the time he was pulled from a little league game because of meltdown, he has been known to throw up and run a fever, he cussed at me one time, he doesn't like to write, he had nightmares once or twice, he doesn't eat broccoli.............. Am I being sarcastic? Yep, figured it was my turn I don't mind a volunteer saying "I don't know how to handle this about your child". But that should be followed by "What should we do about it?" Not "bye bye".

The following is from a Girl Scout handbook, can you guess which decade it is from? "You press a button and we do the rest" is the slogan of a famous camera firm, and really it seems as if this might almost be called the slogan of modern times; we have only to press a button nowadays, and someone will do the rest. But in those early pioneer days there was no button to press, as we all know, and nobody to "do the rest"; everybody had to know a little about everything and be able to do that little pretty quickly, as safety and even live might depend on it. ******************* NOW STOP READING! ***** ***** ***** What decade was that handbook published? The answer is below. ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** ***** The twenties. Yep, 1923 "Scouting for Girls".

Let me be honest, I signed up so MY son would have a good Webelos program. I didn't like the style of the den leaders, then suddenly there were 15 kids in the den. The opportunity was there and I took it, volunteering to lead some of the boys in a new den. I wanted my son and his friend to have a good experience. Since then I have found out there is a lot that I didn't know I had signed up for. I have learned that you are responsible for the kids near you -- to help them when needed and to correct when needed. I also have to deal with other adults I don't always agree with. In our pack and troop there are all social-economic levels of families, all types of living arrangements at home, different backgrounds, different job schedules for parents, different medical and emotional problems. Last year a young boy joined my den. He was 11 years old, schoolwork on a 1st grade level, speech problems, bi-racial, spent many years in foster homes, just moved in with the woman who was adopting him, all sorts of behavioral and emotional disorders, new school. He was also known to be violent with little provocation. His new mom never left him at den meetings alone. He was SO excited to be in Scouting it just had to warm your heart. He seldom said a word and I think most of the time he really didn't know what we were talking about but he always had a smile on his face. His mom said he would iron his uniform shirt the night before meetings. When I went looking for troops, I did so with all my Webelos in mind. I asked specific questions pertaining to this boy. The SM of the troop we joined stopped me quickly and said "we have all kinds, he won't be the first, of course he is welcome." Unfortunately, the family decided that they had too much on their plate and scouting was dropped. This is a different case because the mom was in involved or made sure another responsible adult was with him. Did I have to make some changes to accomodate him in the den? Yes. I could not hand him a sheet of paper with instructions and expect him to do something on his own. I found ways to include him in flag ceremonies and skits without making him speak in public (he was terrified of that). Just standing up in front of the den and holding the flag was a big accomplishment for him. I've seen other "problem" children in Cub Scouts. I guess we had a good pack. Most every parent was involved. If a child was at an event without a parent, we all looked out for him. Usually these were the kids with behavior problems. We just made sure someone was with him all the time. I remember one boy in particular. He often said things that we didn't allow (we don't call people stupid), he would get overexcited, and at the same time had some serious fears. His dad was not involved, his mom had a new infant and could not always attend. We all looked out for this kid. He had a heart of gold but also needed lots of praise and lots of reminders about behavior. As in many cases in life, what we thought we signed up for and what we really signed up for aren't always the same thing. We have one scoutmaster on this board who has a deaf son. What if that boy joined your troop and his parents were not involved? Are you trained to work with the deaf? I'm not. Are you going to send him to the special needs troop? Yes, there are cases where a boy is a danger to himself and others. Cases where the boy would damage the program for all the other boys. But why is that the "humper" should be excused if provoked and some say "was just being a boy", while those with medical problems should be sent away?

One more comment.... One problem many people have in dealing with a boy like this is that he "looks normal". If a person has a physical handicap it is easy to see. But someone who looks "normal" and for the most part acts "normal", it's hard to understand when they can't handle certain day to day tasks. People with ADHD and those who are highly functioning autistic, look like all the others and for the most part act like others.

Some patrols use one of the standard patrol badges but with an interesting name. Soaring Eagles Snappin' Gators The big hurdle is getting the boys to decide on one that everyone is happy with. My Webelos patrol had a couple of boys who wanted the dragon and the other extreme of the boy who wanted the owl. You can see a lot about their personalities just by seeing which emblem they like.