Scoutfish

Just thought this might be interesting: Years ago, my father was going to have some bypass surgery where his Aorta splits to go down each leg. So he had to go through tests and scans, etc.. The Dr sked him when he had his heart ATTACKS! Not attack, but ATTACKS. My dad told him there must be a mistake because he never had any. Dr says:" Yep, you sure did..twice!" Years of drinking coffee and Pepst caused him to be a fan of Rolaids for his heartburn. Probably felt a sensation, and popped a few tablets in his mouth and waited for it to go away. I want to mention that he as well as I have nerve issues. Had a wisdom tooth crack and it only "kinda" hurt for a few seconds. Broke my nose and it was sore for a few days. My dad was the same way. We don't really feel things the way we should, so a heart attack might not have felt the way it normally would. But let me tell you..hurt back or a tiny cyst ? That stuff hurts!

WEll, I will be volunteering as a staff member. Since I have never done that before, I don't know if I will have any say or input, or just fill in a position. Now, the parent son weekend was around a month after all of the packs roundups, so it was geared more towards first time scouts..especially the younger Tigers and wolfs: Make a T-Rex head out of a milk jug, glue macaroni noodles into the shape of a dinosaur, make a dinosaur bone mold with plaster, dig up a dinosaur egg. As for my son, he did do bb guns, archery, canoeing, Tom Sawyer rafting, and skits. As a pack, we hiked around and did the whole campfire and cooking thing. There is a Webeloree coming up soon, and Cub resident camp in the spring. He still had a blast, he just didn't do the planned activities.

I guess I am in the middle as to what I think, but I tend to follow Basements advice. Yeah, the mom is in tears. She needs help. The problem is this: We are not in a program that offers "that" kind of help. Do I tell mom I can fix her kid? Do I not say that, but try to? What is wrong with him? Beats me, I am not trained in that! I MIGHT help him, I MIGHT screw him up worse! But I do have to ask...does anybody else see some red flags here? The scout in question is a Tiger, yet, they have been through a bunch of packs already? Why? Did the other packs tell her she was part of the Adult Buddy as required bt BSA? Did she just not like that? Does she think she can decide to ignore that rule? Or maybe she has other kids who are the same way? How many other packs decided that mom was too much drama, that her "Perfect little angel" was too much to handle and that all in all, she brought the program down for others? Maybe mom is going to go from pack to pack until she finds one that will put up with her . Storming off every time she gets upset? Without her kid? UH-UH! Not in my pack! I will tell you why she is in tears: She is reaping what she sowed. As person, I feel bad for her. As a Cub Master, I have a responcibility to my pack. The ENTIRE pack. I cannot, nor will I demean and break down the program for the benefit of one kid and parent who have no concern for anybody but themselves. As an adult leader, I already had to handlea mom last year who dropped off her Tiger without telling anybody, then freaking out when she came to pick him up ( 20 mins early) and couldn't describe to the committee members standing in the foyer, what he was wearing. She freaked out and said that we were ..ummm, let me put this nicely) a bunch of idiots who needed to learn something about kids and responcibilty. She couldn't believe that we ran such a shoddy program, and that they would not be coming back! Yeah, from the mom who dropped her Tiger off without telling anybody at all, didn't know her son's den number, the den leaders name ( we had 3 Tiger dens), or what her son was wearing! And somehow it was totally and completely all our fault and not even a teeny bit hers! Maybe I'm a jerk, but I do not miss or feel bad about not having that scout AND the baggage that comes with him. Okay, I hate it for her son, but cannot take the baggage that comes with him. My pack did not, nor does it have the rescources , time or want - to have to devote untold extra effort to suit that mom. Again, what Basement said: You have to weigh the needs of the entire pack against her and her son.

Personally, I don't care if LDS DID change a few things if it worked for them. Wouldn't bother me if any other religion or group did so....as long as they didn't demand everybody else do it too. Yeah, "supposed to" and "really do" are key words. And without meaning criticism or bashing in any shape, way or form....I garantee that not every single LDS unit is run EXACTLY the same way or correctly. But that is true for unit that are not LDS also. I have no doubt at all that all the units in my own coucil have differences, Some may be so minute that it's not worth noticing, other may be bigger, noteworthy, but still do not adversely affect the program. Some may be real issues that need addressing. Kinda like the cold weater camping vs area. In Mexico, 55 degrees may be considered too cold for camping while in Fargo - the scouts wear t shirts, shorts, and flip flops in -10 degree weather. ( not really, but you get my point! ) Basically, my point of view is this: If it works for you our yours.........what's the problem?

My son and I went to a parent son weekend 2 weeks ago. Had a blast. Mosquitos tried to carry us away when we first got thre, but some Cutter took care of that for the next hour when temps finally dropped low enough that the skeeters ran off. Daytime highs were in the mid seventies, nighttime lows were in the low 50's high 40's. It was great! The perfect weather for csamping, wearing sweatshirts and hanging around the campfire! The only 2 downsides were: 1) My son is a first year Webelos. Most parent son activities were geared more towards the Tigers and Wolves ages. The camp is rated for 300 people, but a glitch in online signup allowed the system to continue taking reservations until somebody caught it at around 800 people signed up. Okay, who knew about the online signup? Would have saved me a trip to the scoutshop to turn in the paperwork, Wasn't mentioned on the flyer anywhere! Now, I will hand it to the staff that - even though we were OVER DOUBLE CAPACITY - they pulled it off. The only drawbacks were the long line at breakfast, and splitting lunch and supper into two seperate shifts. Understandable, but still sucked. So. Even though the activities were geared towards newer scouts and the crowd was larger than you plan on having, I and my son still enjoyed the camping. We still loved getting in the woods, sleeping in a tent, hanging around the campfires ( at our campsites) as well as the Saturday night Campfire assembly and ceremony. We participated in two skits and one song. Okay, I have jaw jacked long enough. The post was to ask you this: I am thinking of volunteering for parent son weekend or resident camp next year. What are your experiences doing that? Did you do it again - or planning on doing it again? Oh yeah: Capacity was not double the safe amount. There was plenty of room physically. Capacity was over double the IDEAL amount of campers.

I started out as an active parenyt, then became and ADL, then a DL, to my current position as CubMaster. From my own point of view: There are times that I think I am having more fun that my son. I can't wait until Monday nights when we meet. When we broke for summer ( we follow school calendar) I was actually kinda sad about it , unlike the other parents who were running out the door! Right now, my son is a Webelos I. After next year, he will ( if all goes well) cross over to Boy Scouts. My plan at thuis time , anyways, is to keep on serving the pack in one way or another. Now, if you have some concerns just because it's hard to imagine a parent without a scout still wanting to help...then relax, happens alot more often that you are aware of ( just go to your scout office). But if it's because of a particular strange or odd behavior that you observe when that dad is around the boys..keep an eye open to him.

The biggest problem is that neither side is willing to stop, take a breather, and even try to understand where the other side is coming from. Simply , having tolerance of others views, Now look back...way back in civilization. At one time, scientists had absolutely no doubt at all whatsoever -that the world was flat, the sun revolved around the world, and all thought process took place in the heart. If you didn't subscribe to those beliefs, you were just plain stupid. But then again, whenthe first explorers of Amerivca went back to Europe and were seen exhaling that fine new tobbacco smoke from their mouths...they were considered possessed by the devil himself. Fire and brimstone as proof! Drought? God did it! Flooded crops? God did it! Harsh winter? God did it! The who , what and where may change, but there will always be issues until the two side can step back from their own ego's.

It's not that easy to designate some things. Priviledge or right...or a grey area in between? You have the right to vote until you get put in prison. Then you lose that right. So wait a minute, was it a right that was "de-righted" or was it a priviledge that was taken away. Or are you just priviledged to have that right?

The difference between what is a civil right and what is not is merely the will of the person protestuing and the money they spend on the lwayer. Scream loud enough, get enough tv covereage and hire a big enough lawyer...and you can make the right to free government provided chocolate milk a civil right.. Likewise, having acesse to peanut butter( especially crunchy) is not a constitutional right, yet thousands of dollars and endless hours of court time are wasted when a incarcerated person brings up such a suit. Cilil rights is a fancy way of saying moral rights . Or you can say the rights of a person within a civilized society.. Now, a bigger problem, how exactly do you define civilized society and where do you draw the line on that society being civilized. I think marrage is a personal right, Civilization be damned! The only civil part of my marrage was a fee to get a marrage license, and a fee to get copies of my birth cetificate and marrage license so I could then pay a fee to get a new driver's license, a new SS card, and to make sure that both the state and federal government were getting the correct taxes they wanted from our union of mental acceptance of each other. No, I'm not bitter about what I had to do to get married legally, but I am just saying that true marrage is a state of mind, not the fees that governments put behind the "civil" union of marrage. What civil used to mean, is a little different than what it means today. Today, civil could be defined as "government approved ( provided ytou pay the necessary fees).

I agree with that too. I may not particularly agree with or personally agree with the decision they make or what subject the decision was about, but since they are private, I believe they have that choice. Now as far as the gay issue is concerned...while I do not expect( nor would I stand for) a gay leader to talk about his sexuality, I also do not expect(nor would I satnd for) a heterosexual to discuss his sexuality. Matter of fact, the only time I expect to hear the differences between males and females discussed is when it concerns proper pushups, or the different colors between male and female species of animals - such as the difference between a male and female mallard or cardinal. Maybe how a female black widow is twice as big as a male black widow. But anybody's sexuality? Nah, not in the pack I am CM over! WE are here to talk about scouting. If it isn't about the flag, or camping , helping little old ladies across the street or how to help all citizens...then it needs to be talked about somewhere else. No politics, not sexuality, no race, or religion discussed in a bad way ( mine being better than yours- etc...). Edited to point out, I meant discussing sexuality at a Scout setting, not anybody's right to discuss it in general.(This message has been edited by scoutfish)

Oh, there will be some moaning and complaining....Some units will fold, but new ones open up. Some people will quit, but many will join up. It would be a news story sensation for a month or two, but within a year, other than missing a few recognizable faces at Jambo or camp...it would be about the same.

Talked about scout accounts about 3 weeks ago..maybe not that long ago, maybe longer, but 3 weeks is close. Thing about serches: Some have to have exact wording or will not work.

WEll, since it is a program for and centered around kids...I wouldn't go too far with pomp and ceremony. The kids eyes will glaze over and drool will emit from thier mouths. Yeah, you do want the kids to recognize and learn to applaud and respect others accomplishments, so it's a fine3 line to walk. Basically, instead of a special ceremony for the adults, I'd just recognize them at the next pack meeting in the same way your recognize the scouts..Call them up, talk about what they did, and present them with the trained patch. This will also show the scouts that their awards and patches are just as important as the ones adults get.

Thanks! Not for me, but for my Webelos son's shirt. Just thinking along the lines tnat since Jambo went above the pocket, and since Cubs can visit but not attend jambo( from my understanding) ..that the camp patch would be their "jambo" patch.

There's another side to this also: Parents who get suspicious of your kids advancement. Know what I'm talking abouit? Parents wonder if everything is on the up and up with what your kid had acheived and earned. Last year,I was an Assistant Den Leader for Bears. My son was working on his second silver arrow point while some kids hadn't earned the Bear rank yet. One dad even called me out on it. I told him it was simple: Our pack meets every Monday night. The 1st Monday is leaders meetings, 2nd is a den meeting, third is a pack, 4th is den and 5th ...when it happens...is also a den meeting, but at discrection of DL. Last year, we held 54 dem meetings. I attended 53 of them. The only reason I missed the one meetimng was I had cancer surgery and had a mass the size of 2 chicken eggs removed from my neck as well as 19 lymph nodes, and my Sternocleidomastoid Muscle. I also missed the Pack Christmas Party. But I ...which means my son...attended all those meetings. Not trying to toot my own horn, but if I am that active in the pack, you can pretty much be assured I am that active with my son, who is also that active as well. A scout who is that active, tends to earn his rank a little bit faster than others. That scout also earns gold and silver arrow points, LNT/ Outdoor patch, whittling chip, etc... I then asked the parent how many things he and his son worked on at home, since Cub Scouts is a family oriented activity. "Umm, well...we just do it at meetings..." of which they attended just a hair more than half of them. Basically, the people who VOLUNTEER to be leaders , also tend to be the people who put in the extra effort.

Okay, this may be one of those "DUH" questions, but the answer just seems to allude me. I know the area above the right pocket is reserved for jambo patches, but what about Cub Scouts who go to camps or weekend camps? A big handfull of us went to a council parent son weekend event. I did not know it, but part of the program is that the scouts get a patch for attending that weekend. Not a generic "Oh gee, I went to camp" patch, but a patch specific to that event by way of place, time and theme. Would this be a temp patch worn on the pocket, or would it be like a Jambo patch worn above the pocket? Thanks!

gotta, I'm gonna put a different spin on what John-in-KC and Scoutnut said. Actually, I'm gonna say what they said, just with different words: It's cool that the parents are still that active with their kids. It's not exactly what the program is trying to do...but it's not necessarily a detriment either. But here's where things need to change- It is NOT your job to go around and explain things to each parent, so they can help their son! It is your job to explain TO THE Bears what THEY are going to, or need to do. Then, IF they need further assistance, mom or dad can help out. Again, parnets being involved is not necessarily a bad thing, but it's not your job to work for, teach towards or assist the parents in the way you describe. You are there to work with the boys. All of them and equally. Now, what I'd do is pick one or two of the most all around go getter parents and see about getting them registered and signed up as ADL's. Then, if any scout has problems or needs help..or sigh...if a parent doesn't get it, the ADL can go over it with them - leaving you free to continue working with the boys! Make sense ?

It is my understanding, that you can wear the patch of jambos you have been to, but should wear the most current event YOU attended. So if the last Jambo you went to was in 1983, that one would be the most current for YOUR uniform. AS opposed to wearing the 1979, if you went to that one too.

Can't argue that one! That is how it's done at the local concil and district camp events. They advertise it with plenty of time, but state that slots are limited- first come, first serve! Don't wait or it will be too late! That is just life........ happening.

As a former Certified level III firefighter , Water Rescue III ,and EMT in North Carolina... I totally get where you are coming from. Just let a scout know about how victem vomit happens while performing CPR and you will have everyybody's attention! It is a tough call: as a p[aramedic, you know the standards can be soooooo much higher. Yet, you are seeing it through a paramedic's eyes. I think the biggest issue wouyld be people who do not understand Good citizen mentality. Know what I mean? "You saved me from the buring car I was trapped in just before oit exploded, but know my foot tingles so I am going to sue you!" Doesn't matter that a foot tingle is better than being blown up...they blame everybody else. Anyway, I see the need for a certain amount of CYA and other precautions, but it has to be judged against being overwhelming to the troop/pack too.

Clem, One of the biggest issues I se with G2Ss is that people break alot of rules...but not always intentionally. I guess as adults, we think we are making sound eecisions based on good judgement. As an active parent, I helped teach BB guns at a pack campout. Had no idea that it was a big NO NO! As a parent, you kinda assume thet thae pack knows what they are doing. Didn't help that at the time, my son was already experienced in shooting .22 rifles ( bolt action and semi auto) and .410 shotguns. As a kid, I wondered through the woods all alone with my bb gun at age ten. So when you are thinking of activities for a pack, thinking that BSA might restrict a common activity doesn't always come to mind. Same with canoeing. The particular DL assume that Tigers MIGHT be restricted..never though all cubs would be. It's a great idea to make a few copies of the age /activity char and hand them out at the next leaders meeting.

Oh, I want to mention something else....... When our former CM approached me about being the new CM this year, she said my taking a stand about this issue was one of the reasons she thought I'd be a great CM. There are times you make concessions and compromises. But there are times you do not!

If it involves saftey of my son or any other scout...I'll be "Mr.No" in a heart beat. Last spring, it was brought up during a pack family camping planning meeting about getting some canoes and renting them during the campout. Somebody asked if Tigers were able to do it. I looked it up, and found out that NO Cub Scouts can do canoeing unless at a council/ district run camp/event. So they decided to pass around a hat, let only those who wanted to do it pay for it, and they had to : 1) Sign a release form agreeing that the pack, disytrict,council and camp were not responcible for anything 2) That it was not a pack/council/district event 3) That a parent had to be with their scout while in the canoe. Everybody decided it was ok then in that respect. They voted and passed it. I'll be honest - I voted for it too...as long as it was donre tat way. But it only took a day for me to have second thoughts about it. Seems like we were sending the message to the cubs that you had to follow the rules..UNLESS you really, really wanted to do it and you found a loophole around it. So much for trustworthy, honesty, loyal, and doing our best to do the right thing. So I made my feelings felt about it. By trhe time it was all said and done, two people ( former DL and his wife) paid for 4 canoes for 4 hours. Nobody else went. That DL and his wife did take their den to the lake under the guise of it being a den activity, but that backfired when the parents said no! Anyways, point is, I stood up and stood my ground. I figured I'd be the black sheep for it, but turns out alot of the other people agreed with me, but they didn't want to be Mr.No!

I wouldn't lose to much sleep from those parents. In our pack, the leaders kids also tend to get more awards..or at least attend more activitied even if there are no awards for it. Why? Because we are the leaders, We are running the show. We are there even when each parent has a reason ( even legit ones) to miss that activity or event. Pack camping? I am there even if the jones family isn't. PWD..I'm there even if the smith family isn't. Council camp...yep, I'm at that one too. Matter of fact, with few exceptions, the leadership is there every single week doing what leaders do. We have this same issue pop up every year, only difference is who the parents are. One thing I did as the new CM is set up a 3'X4' dry erase board just inside the main entrance . So every den, pack , or leaders meeting, there is a calendar of dates and events/activities, etc.. beside them. We also make announcements at pack meetings and DL's announce it at den meetings. If that doesn't get the message across...well, it's not our fault! If a parent doesn't know after all that..they are sleeping anyways.

How about this: People forget things sometimes. People confuse things too. Maybe instead of a square knot, he taught a neighbor a joining knot instead ..by mistake? How would you know? Have him demonstrate iyt, If he knows it, it should be no skin off his back. He shouldn't have any issue or problem demonstrating tou unless he doesn't know the knot! Granted, I'm in the cub scout level, but we had the boys show us the knots they learn to tie. Not just to see if they can do it, but to also make sure we are presenting and teaching in a way that they learn it. So tell that scout that you are: 1) Seeing if he did indeed learn it 2) Checking to make sure that you taught it in a way that the scout understood it too.