Scoutfish

I have a question for you. I need some references or site names.library books or videos of WWII veterans talking about their experiences in the war.

WEll, let me be a bit more clear: I need stories that are appropriate for a 9 year old.

See, in the last few months,my son was given a WWII era video game..meaning the time line of the game was WWII.

At first it was just another game. then a favorite, but then, he got curious. He started asking questions about WWII. He started asking to go to Book-a-Million and Barns and Nobel to buy WWII books.

Now, he actualy like to hear the stories in the Vets own words. He can listed for hours as the guys recall the camradierie and brotherhood of units. He understands it isn't all glam like the game show and also knows the horros ( as well as a 9 year old can understand that is).

But he genuinely listens and enjoys them.

I hate that it took me 30 years to be the same way: enjoy listening to the older generation tell their tales.

Anyway, if you know of any age appropriate videos, books or what not, please let me know.

PBS just doesn't crank them out fast enough!

Well, as a scout, he may have one of those scouting/ swiss army knives.

He may hide in the luggage hold and while not eating with the spoon and fork accessories, might use the nail cutters to clip important wires that control the aircraft's ability to fly. BECAUSE EVERYBODY KNOWS THE MOST CRITICAL WIRES RUN THROUGH THE LUGGAGE AREA!

Then he could use the screwdriver attachment to unscrew an interior panel, then switch to the saw atachment to cut through the outter skin, at which point he freefalls and deploys his neckerchief as a parachute!.

But the parachute is entirely dependant on if he completed Achievement #22-B - Knot tying!

Remember, a scout is thrifty, but also resourceful.

Maybe the CIA can tap into this abundant resource?

Again,I completely understand Beavah's responce.

What is even better is that it sounds like things are changing for the better, as it should be.

Again, I reference living 5 minutes from the "World's most complete amphibious training center" as my proof:

Living that close to such a large military base, I have seen 35 Marines behave like perfect gentlemen. Then 1 marine, who isn't associating with, hanging out with , or even near the other marines - act like a jerk. The next thing you know, all the non marines are looking at ALL the marines as if they are guilty by association or just because of their uniform.

I have been chided, disrespected and the target of many insults because my flat top haircut caused people to think I was a marine. As soon as they found out I wasn't, their attitude turned 180.

So..their entire oopinion of me wasn't based on me or how I acted, but rather on a pre concieved idea of what I might be.

So what is my point?

The view of scouts varies. Wether or not scouts were bad, the impression could have been bad.

While your troop may have perfect rapport with a ranger, others may not even if they did no wrong.

As far as the West part of it, I believe that to only mean that the east tends to have more urban and cities than the western part of the US. We don't have a Yellow Stone or Grand Canyon on this side. Yeah, we have Mountains but we don't have groups like Tahoe or the Sierra groups that have protected our resources. I only mean that some of our best resources have power plants, diamond mines or other industry right in the middle ( not all though)

But again, What I hear is great news...sounds like the perception of scouting is changing for the better!

What is even worse is Rouge wearing rogue scouts! But still not as scary as "mime Scouts" !

Yep...Kids being kids.

One thing to consider: While not always, I can pretty much bet that most of the time... a kid who is into gangs, and active in a gang probably wouldn't be an actice scout.

LMAO! So...I see Pathfinding is more of a "route plotting" skill. Nothing to do with woods or paths?

LOL!

Maybe they shouls have a merit badge - merit badge: You get a merit badge for understanding what other badges are for! LOL!

Trainer lady... I concur! At least 70% of my son's acheivements have been earned at home, out with family or just not in a den/pack setting.

Granted, maybe I take the scouting thing too far, but every museum, historic site, every woodworking project around the house or even shopping for a car for my wife was a lesson outlined in my son's Bear book.

If you really put an effort into it, anything can be a FUN learning/ educational experience that actually adhears to BSA guidlines!(This message has been edited by scoutfish)(This message has been edited by scoutfish)

Car Camping>

Please clarify: Does this mean driving to a campsite, setting up tent as opposed to hiking miles then setting up camp/ tents....

Or is this where you drive a truck, throw a tarp over the bed of the truck and toss sleeping bag in there too snd sleep that way?

Beavah, I totally understand that!

I live next to Camp Lejune. It's a USMC amphibious training center. And just like with the BSA, 1 marine goes to a bar and acts like an ass, and the whole Corps gets the credit for it.

But I understand it from t5he Rangers view too. While as an individual family - mine or yours - goes camping, there may be a footprint or two mashed into the natural grass or the sand/dirt environment. Not that big a deal and possibly no worse than what a deer. bull, buffalo or whatever natural wild life that lives there would leave.

But then add 35 or 50 more kidsm their parents, that many tents mashing grass flat. Some kids dig holes, some climb tres and break all the branches. Others spill coolaid and cola everywhere!

I may have a small camp fire and the damage is almost non existamt (almost). Now add 40 other campfires.

Does the campsite look like the site of crop circles even after all "Leave no trace " efforts were taken?

Yeah, it totally sucks that one group of rouge scouts can ruin it for all, but the sheer size of any scouting group also does damage, at least in a ranger's mind!

Even the ones in national parks were clear cuting is allowed thanks to laws and policy by congressmen who have paper companies filling ther wallets!

Hmmm? Something weird happened here?(This message has been edited by scoutfish)

I don't know why I just thought of this, but what if everybody grew up a scout, and encompassed those values in every day life? How awesome would that be?

And here's why I thought of it: I am a Sr field supervisor/ quality control/ new employee trainer/ custom garage door maker. I have worked at my company for 15 years. I have seen and heard almost every excuse as to why somebody called in sick, didn't call in at all or tried to explain shoddy work.

Three of my all time favorites were:

1) Employee calls in ( Monday morning)and says he has bird flu. He has had it all weekend, but will probably come in tomorrow.

2) Same employee calls in( Monday morning) and says He will not be making it as he caught the human version of Parvo from his dog. He is taking herbal medicine and will be in on Weds....maybe!

3) Employee ( different one this time) calls in ( Monday again) and says he will be out three days because his grandmother died. Story sounds kinda familiar. Office resource director checks files. Turns out that particular employee's two grandmothers have collectively died 9 times between the two of them in the course of 14 years.

So, if everybosdy grew up with scoutings values, this would not happen.

Of course, life might not be as interesting sometimes! LOL!

acco, I totally and completely agree wit what you are saying about a scout getting a taste of the real world.

I actually think all scouts should be proud of their uniform to the point that it should not even HAVE TO be a requirement that you wera it. I'd like it to be that scouts would WANT to wear it every chance they get,

But that is not my focus here.

It is just mt beliefe that if we expect the scout to hold a certain amount of respect for any proces or function, we ..especially as leaders.... should show that same respect too.

When that scout puts on his uniform for an EBOR ( wether he just wants to, or is required) and he shows up to a bunch of leaders, adults and "supposedly" respectable board members who are wearing a bunchof ragged torn up clothes 0 trhe message is clear: "We demand you show us respect, but we decided you are not worthy of it in return!"

Then almost every core value as a scout, every oath, promise and motto just became null and void.

In short, the message says that rules of respect do not apply to anybody that is an adult. And when those scouts become adults, they may follow suit!

So Ca, your okay with Gay Global Warming denialists, just not Gay Global Warming dentists?

What gives? LOL!

Well, I know what G2SS states, but also know that there may be another rule I am not aware of due to my newness to the BSA .

As a SOP, I know each pack/den could be different.

Now as far as outings, I meant day trips.dem meetingf trips etc..

I apologize for not being clear on that one.

As far as camping on the pack level or pack family campouts, I'd require at least 1 parent ot legal guardian, but figure some way to allow ( with a signed permission/ witness signed/ or notorized ) a Cub to attend with another relative or designated guardian.

Basicaly, if you as a single dad have Natioal Guard duty that weekend, your son could go with your sister, brother, or neighbor that you trust as long as that nieghbor has a power of attorney paper.

I DO NOT want toi be in the woods camping and be watching all those kids at THAT age.

But a 1 hr den meeting/field trip..2 adults per 8 to 10 is okay with me.

Calico, no doubt!

I'm not saying I agree with such a strict policy, just saying, that the pack cannot change that policy if it is indeed the park's policy.

I would think the park would understand and allow established groups such as BSA, GSA, Scouters, Jr Range Rancheroos,or any other gruop with reasonable guidlines to just follow their own guidlines .

In reality though,,this is probably park ( and that being under county, state or federal control) rules due to some lawsuit over any function where jr got a scratch on his knee when mom or dad wasn't there.

And you know how it is...What is sadder: That a hair dryer has a warning label saying not to use while in a shower..or the fact somebody did that and that's why the label is there?

Anyway, my point is: If it's a prk rule,it's a park rule and not up to BSA to decide it's validity. Not wether I agree with it.

Moxie, we DO have a laser score line. Matter of fact, we just got a new track, although it is wood.

We just switched to "NASCAR style" opf scoring because ALL scouts and parents can redily grasp, understand and keep up with the score as the day goes on.

This is spun from another thread: http://www.scouter.com/Forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=263143

I cannot grasp the concept of making "spun from another thread " work. So my apologies.

So, I'm a new-ish scout parent. This is only my second year, so I do not know all of the rules of scouting ( written, unwritten, and implied) yet, but I'm working on it.

This year , I was given the honor of becoming the Assistant Den Leader of my son's Bear den. I have always actively participated with my sonand others ,while making sure I was not hovering.

So anyways, I was wondering: What sets the standard for den/ pack outings as far as supervison is concerned?

So far, the only rule I have seen is actually under Youth Protection, but it specifically states:

"Two registered adult leaders or one registered adult leader and a parent of a participant , one of whom must be at least 21 years of age, are required on all trips and outings.The chartered organazation is responcible for ensuring that sufficient leadership is provided for all activities."

So, it seems, if I was crazy enough to take 35 kids as well as my wife along, I'd meet all requirements to the rule.

I also realize that your Den/ Pack/ Council/ District may have a higher requirement. But as is, the BSA is okay with 2.

Naturally, I'd want more adults. Preferably leaders. I think a ratio of 1 leader and 1 adult parent ( at least 21) per 8 to 10 boys should sufice. This would allow for unforsen circumstances and possibly an emergency situation.

So, what would your ideal be?

Or, is there another rule that I am not aware of?

Oak, that's what I meant..The BSA rules will not override the parks, but within the den/ pack, BSA rules must still be followed. BSA may say only two adults are needed overall , but the park can require 1 parent per scout.

Meanwhile, if the park only requires 1 parent per your group, BSA supercedes this on the den/pack level by requiring at least 2 adults: 1 as a registered leader and a parent of one of the scouts , one of who is 21 years old.(This message has been edited by scoutfish)

Calico, is this a BSA put on event, or a parks and rec event that a den/pack is planning on attending?

There is a big difference. For example: Let's say I own a park, some kind of camp ground, or place that scouts would be interested in going to...

If I have a rule saying that all kids must have two parenst present..then that is what stands. Your pack or den has no authority to over ride it, change it or challenge it. Either you follow the requirements I set forth, or you don't get in!

Now, I could be wrong, but the way I read it , this is an event/function put on by a local parks and Rec group...NOT THE BSA or a Pack or den.

You follow the park's requirement or do not attend.(This message has been edited by scoutfish)

This is soooo off the top of my head, and without srious deep thought...but how about 100 year old stuff?

Pictures of your community, article from newspapers, tghose old tin signs selling gas, coke, motor oil, etc.

Maybe somebody could find or print scout recruiting posters from back then or a photo of a troop .

Maybe have a 1910 scout costume contest?

I don't have any idea of how feasable,practible, or expensive it is.

I read a funny article years ago in a fishing magazine about Asian Carp.

Basically, the author said the cheapest, fastest way to get rid of Asain Carp would be to declair them endangered and illeagal. The next thing you know, black market AC fillets, live AC, Ac lamps, ornaments, Mounts and what not would be sold every where!

The demand for the fish would be so extensive, that Asian Carp would be extinct in 3 years!

We are trying something new this year: We are scoring NASCAR style! LOL!

We will still use the timers to see who is 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th, but then we go NASCAR.

1st place car gets 4 points

2nd place gets 3 points

3rd place gets 2 points

4th place gets 1 point

All cars will run 4 ( in the corse of the derby, not back to back)times each ( once in each lane) to ensure equality in the runs.

Tie breakers are extra heats.

We did this to un-complicate the math and to keep the kids interest.

Used to be that we ran heats and cars were just eliminated. Problem is , one scout is out right away and the fun is gone.

My participation in I&P was minimal, but I did read quite a bit.

I completely agree with OGE for a partivcular reason:

While there should be alot of leeway and freedom in I&P about the posted topics , the posts and commenst should in some way pertain to the posted topics!

Talk about your Hatfield and McCoys here.... Looking at all the posts, at some point, somebody didn't agree with somebody else...ok in itself, buyt it went from political jabs to personal jabs, insults and Inuendos of threats. Does anybody remember exactly what the "original" disagreement was about? Or is it a case of the Hatfield and McCoys : "WEll, it's just always been that way!"

I have said before, that I'm fairly new to scouting. I am in my second year,and I am also a ADL. Next year,I plan on being a DL for Web I

Now, being that I'm fairly new, I feel you should either take what I say with a grain of salt,or realize that I am only seeing a small picture what really goes on.Meaning my insight is only as extensive as my experience.

Now, I will say that I have learned more about scouting in here , than FROM the Oficial books.

Now, I'm only in a pack and not a troop, but I'd like to think we were somewhere in the middle.

My observations are based on 1 whole campout experience. Yes, only 1, but it's amazing what you can learn by watching.

I can see some Webelos, that if you gaave them 1 match, 1 cracker, and a Rambo knife...dumped them on a deserted island... and came back a month later - they would have gained ten pounds, have a shelter fit for a king and crafted a bamboo bicycle for transportation.

Why? Because their Den Leader/parents made sure the scout actually "experienced the experience" in full. No cutting corners, no holding back, and giving an honest effort at particpation and learning.

Then on the other hand, I see parents who will hover over Jr and wipe his face for every sigle smudge, speck of dirt or what not, Sometimes they want Jr's project to be of such quality, they do it themselves and make sure Jr doesn't touch it lest he ruins it.

I also observed these parents cut hikes short or carry Jr because his shorter legs might get boo boos.

I know you know they type.

As for bullying : Lay the blame on the parents. Well, not all the time, but pretty much most of the time. These are parents who in one way, shape or form bully themselves on a day to day basis and have taught by example. Maybe they just don't understand courtesey, respect or individula freedom. Maybe they cannot see past their own ideas and opinions. They expect the whole group to bend and conform to whatever ideals they have, and theirs alone. Afterall, all 150 Cubs and 250 parents are only their for THEIR children!

I'm sure you know those types too.

Now, I'm just hoping, that by getting involved,getting my hands dirty, taking my classes and getting trained right, I can put more emphasis on the Cubs, how much they participate and actually honestly learn.

I guess I'm trying to help turn the tide to a real, and meaningful scouting experience, and not one that is just for show!

I'm only gonna post once, since as a politics conversation, politics will rule over any educational or actual truth.

While I do believe in global warming, Ido not believe there is one single source. We as human arew spewing out tons of gases that do not halp anything.

Yet, scientist also noted decades ago that 1 square mile of ocean emits cholrine, amonia and other gases in the range of metric tons a day. We had an earth that started as a fiery ball of rock, then it cooled down. Then it got hot again, then an ice age.

Seems like the winters are warmer and the summers are cooler, the spring and fall are all screwed up. But mostly, all the seasons happen later and later.

In my opinuion, the biggest problem is that we tried to put a definant time and cycle to something (nature) that does not stick to or care about our timelines and cycle.

So basically, I think we are just as good at our calendar/seasonal math as we are at figuring out our economy and the interest rate.

Politics have ruin any shot at true data and scientific research as too many expert and esteemed scientist will argue that ice is very hot if they knew that "Jones" said it was cold. Science has degraded w to a point it's worse than thew two parties on Capitol hill arguing just because the other party said it!