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Scoutfish

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Posts posted by Scoutfish

  1. We held our first ever "Parent-Son Cookoff" last year.

     

    In spirit, it's a father son thing, but we have a few scouts who's dads decides to opt out of fatherhood or who decided "family" just wasn't their thing. So it's open to the scout and a family friend, Uncle, neighbor, etc..but mom will have to do if nobody else is available. Remember, we can't punish the scouts for something beyond their control!

     

    Now, we hada few catagories: Most original, most creative, best tasting , and overal grand champion.

     

    Last year ( my first year in scouting) I decided that my son would do the majority of the work. So what is a good dessert for a 7 year old to make?

    CHEESECAKE! You have to make the crust, you have to make the cheesecake. You have to mix, blend, pour and kinda shape it out.

    WE bought gel frosting and hand drew a Fleur-De-Lis into the cake. We spelled out his pack number as well as den number too.

     

    My role was 95% observer while he was 95% baker/ chief cook.

    Granted, a cheesecake is not a culinary masterpiece...but he's was only 7 at the time.

     

    He ended up winning the best tasting catagory and Overall Grand Champion.

    We held this contest at our anuual Christmas party and invited 3 non scout associated people who happened to be members of the CO to judge the dishes,

    My son won the grand prize as it was obvious by the work that he was the main baker and not just an observer as was obvious in many of the desserts.

     

    One high light of this for me was watching him lick the Phillidelphia Cream Cheese package (after putting contents in bowl) thinking it would tast like the finished product!

    His face turned inside out and sideways, yet he tried to keep his cool by saying "That's great stuff!" LOL!

  2. COME OUT....COME OUT, WHEREVER YOU ARE!

     

    LOL! Sorry, just in one of those moods tonight.

    But I'll tell yah, being new to this, and finding out this is a great place to learn, I'd like to see the final word on this.

    The first weekend I ever slept with my son in a tent, it dropped to 39 degrees . It was a test run for him before the family pack campout. Even got us some real nice and comfy 20 degree sleeping bags which turned out to be toasters the following weekend at the campout when temps were a low of 74 degrees at night!

    He slept okay, but I peeled back the bag, then tossed the bag and ended up sliding all over the air mattress like a kid trying to stay on a raft in a swimming pool!

  3. "It was odd for me to see women as leaders, and even stranger women in OA. I'm not suggesting I am right, but those are my honest feelings"

    I have no issue with that. The way I read it is the same as if I read "It was strange seening a new mall in my town because we just never had one"

    It's only a problem if you let that "strabgenes" get in the way of scouting , which pretty much is to teach boys to become proud, smart, honest and civil members of society. And they get tricked into that by having fun while doing it.

     

    I gues I look at it like this: I am going to be starting radiation treatments within the next 3 weeks. The Dr I am going to is one of the best in the US.

    Now, when I'm laying on that table...I want the BEST person doing that job. Not the best of the Men Dr's, not the best of the female, white, hispanic, Aian or whatever.

    I want the best Dr for doing that job!

     

    I see women who shouldn't be allowed to raise kids. I see men who decided they didn't want to be dads any more. I see dads be moms and moms be dads. I see kids learning scouts because they are taught scouting, not because it was a mom or dad!

  4. Our Cub Master is female and doing a very fine job of it.

    Here's how our pack looks at things: When it's time for somebody to be in a position of leadership, power, or authority...it is based on the individuals ability to do the job! PERIOD! Male, Female, Alien from Mars...whatever. If you are the best candidate for the job, we hope we are smart enough to have youi doing that joob!

  5. When is too much?

    I think too much is getting a patch for paying attention, being quiet, listening to your Den Leader, following directions, or anything along those lines.

    I have no isuue with a "First time camping" patch or badge if such a thing exists.

    At our last family campout, you'd be surprised how many ( NEW )kids never ever even walked in the woods before, much less went hiking, camped in a tent anywhere, muchless camped in a tent IN THE BIG OLD DARK SPOOKY WOODS, ate in a campchair while sitting around a campfire or went night hiking. Some of these new kids (ranging from tiger to WEB II ) never participated in any kind of group setting other than a school classroom.

     

    Now for these guys, a camping patch is a recognition of something they did. Not an award mind you, but a memento saying :" HEY! Look at what I did! I'll remember that event forever!"

     

    But I would NOT give any badges or patches for things like "Cleaning up your mess, not burning yourself in the camp fire, following orders, policing the grounds.

    Likewise, things like sleeping in a tent/ sleeping bag, campfires, cooking on a campfire , etc pretty much fall under "Camping".

     

    Camping should cover it all, just as a "driving" badge would cover things like seatbelts, turn signals, using the brakes to stop etc.

     

    Too much can definantly happen, but nothing wrong with giving a new scout a badge as a memento.

     

    You know what I mean? Evena tiger can tell when you are being over patrinizing to him: "Here's your getting dresed all by yourself in an hour patch". Matter of fact, with an exception of one or two, you'll most likely insult the kids with too any patches.

     

    (This message has been edited by scoutfish)

  6. Eagle 92.....Your post made more sense to me, because alot of the stuff you said did not make sense (to me that is). LOL!

    Basically, I understand ther is a set of standards that National put out that said "Definant Maybe" , or along the lines og " You always do this unless you don't on every day of the week that ends with "y".

    Maybe you only wear red and white on months that have 28 days LOL!

     

    I'm not into supporting or condoneing mutiny or what not, but maybe the councils shouls all send National a letter stating something to the fact of "We will act like the individual states of The United States of America by adopting our own individual specs and requirements as there is a failure on Nationals part to explain, impliment, and clarify a reasonable set of standards!

  7. let me ask this: Wher did it say anywhere that the scout took away the union employees work?

     

    Was it their job to create that trail? Was the city going to pay them to do it before the scout came along?

     

    I do not see where Mr Balzano said that the city used the scout INSTEAD of paying the union guys.

    Matter of fact, the more I read and think about it. It looks like Mr Balzano is saying: If anything work needs to be done, then the city HAD BETTER pay us to do it.

    Sounds like if ANYTHING comes up, Mr. Balzano thinks the city OWES it to the workers to pay them.

     

    Now, If I was the city, I would stand up and say (and invite the press too , by the way) "Mr. Balzano, please except out apologies. The very next time a VOLUNTEER project becomes available, we will contact you pronto and give you the very first shot at VOLUNTEERING to do it!"

     

    Then I'd hope the reporter got in his (Balzano's) face and asked his thoughts on that!

  8. Another thought:

    While not taking sides, nor saying anybody does not understand what they are talking about ( again, I'm new so I DON'T know)...I have noticed a theme all across these boards, blogs and posts:

    Wether it be advancement requirements, how to earn belt loops/ merit badges, or wether it pertains to shirst, patches and pants....

    There always seems to be some griping about why this rule, that rule or requirement got changed, added , or dropped. This requirement no longer applies, that merit badge no longer exists, the shirts ( thats a big one!) are suddenlt a different style.

     

    Well, what I'm getting at is this: Alot of changes have happened over the years to alot of different areas of scouting - so who's to say that the numbers are not being changed to tan and green?

     

    Again, I personally don't care. I think red and white looks better, yet, I don't have any traditional ties to red and white.

     

    I'm indifferent about it: no matter what color they are, it's about the boys.

  9. Okay, I wasn't very specific since the title thread was only about leaders. I just assumed everybody would get that I was refering to leaders.

    The local scout shop USED to be local, but went NATIONAL since I had bought my sons wolf stuff at the begining of last year ( well actually ... after the August round up).

    The phase out was only to apply to the leader's shirts/ centenial shirts. No, I don't know why.

    The girl at the scoutshop said that the old stuff would not be dropped for everybody in one time frame, but slowly phased out as your old shirts and stuff either wore out, got tore up, as you had to buy new uniforms for whatever reason..

    You didn't suddenly have to go out and buy new numbers, but just got them whenever you had to buy new stuff....whenever that happened to be.

     

    As far as references to cars and whatnot...I was just saying... trhe biggest problem with change is change itself. We get accustomed to certian things and settle into a routine. Whenever something new comes along..we get upset, gripe, complain and get bent out of shape.

    Are the green and tan numbers gonna cause scouting to suddenly collapse?

    NO! Will people suddenly stop joining? NO!

     

    Personally, I like the red and white better. It "just Looks better" in my own opinion. Sorry I can't explain better, but I just like it better than the green.

    But at the same time, The green and tan numbers will not change how I feel about scouting, they won't affect or change the way I get involved , nor will the scouts suddenly stop learning.

     

    Now, I do have to ask though...If even National gets it wrong...who is to say that Green and Tan are not the right colors? Maybe a memeo was supposed to be sent out saying that everybody is supposed to change at the beginning of 2009 or 2010.

    Then again, if even National can be wrong....maybe tan and green was just some joke said in jest at a meeting and the secretary/ minutes taker wrote it down,typed it up and sent a memo to the patch maker not knowing it was a joke?

     

     

    (This message has been edited by scoutfish)

  10. I will agree with Scoutdad on one thing: In my "own, non associated with anybody else personal opinion"...

    I think the dad should stand no matter what his persona opinion or belief is. Is it really religeous? Then I have a hard time imagining that dad would take his son to particcipate in a group that "idolizes" something he is religeously against!

     

    If it's just a matter of citizenship..take him to a sporting event. NASCAR or Hockey for example: WHen playing teams from other countries, we always play the other teams anthem first as sign of respect. We are not saying we follow, believe in or are jealous of their anthem, just respecting it. When NASCAR has races in the upper united states ( meaning still in America) they still play the Canadian National Anthem because a vast percentage of the crowds are Canadian. Again.. just a sign of respect.

     

    Now, again on a personal note ( and I mean persona in every way) If a religeon thinks saluting a flag is the same as idolizing the flag itself, what about crosses, stars, bibles, and what not thew other religeions bow to? Not trying to bash anybody, but seems like a bit of "But it's different when I do it!"

     

    One thing is for sure...as mentioned above, until you discretely ask dad, you'll never know. It might be something just as simple as dad thought only the kids were supposed to do it, and it turn out dad didn't rise because he was TRYING NOT to be disrespectful.

     

     

    Could just be a simple misunderstanding.

  11. Ask that dad if he ever cooked a pig or turkey.

     

    You cook a pig at 350 degrees for around 6 or 7 hours. (assuming he's around the 80 to 120 pound range). Do it right, the pig will be cooked just right...not too much..not too little.

    Everybody enjoys the meal.

     

    This dad sounds like the type to say :" If it's 6 hours at 350 degrees, that means 3 hours at 700 degrees...which means 1 1/2 hours at 1400 degrees , right?"

     

    Except at 1400 degrees, the outside of the pig will be a charred husk , while the very inside will be a bloody raw mess.

     

    What could have been a vey fine pig , now instead is ruined because dad couldn't/ wouldn't let things happen at their own pace.

     

    Ask dad if he ever tried to turn a dirt yard into a perfect lawn over night? Did you double the fertilizer? Maybe triple it? Then you watered it straight for 4 days?

    Instead of a nice lush lawn...you washed away all the seed and burn the soil and ruined the ph balance and acidity with all the fertilizer. Don't say sod, as sod was still grown at it's own natural pace at a sod farm.

     

    Some things just can't be rushed!

    Ask dad if which one does he want for his son: quality, or quantity?

  12. Nah...Pack was right. I mean, he was being completely sarcastic.

    Reminds me of the people we ran across when I was an active firefighter responding to car crashes:

    People would run up and say" I'm a witness! What happened?"

    LOL!

    Or hearing somebody ask the guide at the life science mueseum : "Where are the UNDISCOVERED species located?"

    "Indigenous people arriving daily"! LOL! I'll have to remember that one!

     

  13. On another note though.... If the scout questions his responcibilty to stnd and recite the pledge, and tries to justify it under the "My dad doesn't do it" rule...

    I would tell the dad it's time for a little side meeting. Time to tell Jr that : hey, this is a club you voluntarily joined. You signed up to be a member. This club has rulesand requirements. If you refuse to comply with basic found principles of scouting , you need to drop out.

    Tell him you don;'t want that, and he doesn't either.

    But the choice will be theirs!(This message has been edited by scoutfish)

  14. I see two very applical responces here:

     

    1) Often the parents see themselves as observers, not participants and don't realize that they should stand up.

     

    2)The dad might not be a citizen but even if he was I respect his right to not make the pledge. I think that as long as the dad does not become rude during the pledge and shows respect to other folks beliefs we should respect his beliefs.

     

    I see lots of parents who see all activities as "stuff the boys are doing" . They may see this as a case of it being for the boys, not the parents...in which case, no disrespect is intended.

     

    On the other hand, that parent may just be a rude jerk who is too lazy. As long as he is not interuppting, mocking, preventing the scouts from doing the pledge..I see no issues.

     

    And as much as we hate it, stupidity, arrogance, callousness and not respecting others , is protected by the very frredoms that flag stands for.

     

    But now know this: The very moment that dad starts interupting, or tries to stop the pledge, I would escort him from the room!

  15. I am fairly new to scouting, so in the rare case, I might actually be able to help.

    I just bought my first leaders shirt 3 weeks ago. The very knowledgeable girl at the Scoutshop helped me pick the "NEW" correct colors. Tan and green.

     

    See, I'm not officaily a leader yet, but wanted to hurry up and buy a shirt at the 75% off advertised price.

    Turns out I couldn't. They didn't have my size. See, there are these new shirts that came out along with new designs. 75% off was a sale to get rid of the old shirts...whatever they were!

     

     

    Since the design was new, somebody decided to change the colors too. Something about the "new and better, we've been doing it 100 years" scouts. Or something to that extent.

     

    The problem is that all the info printed in this years books wasn't just gatherd in a week. Collecting and sortng through all the relavant data takes a very long time. Some stuff just carries over. Somebody either wasn't paying attention, OR the shirt change was made after the data gathering, and unfortunatly, too late to change the books.

     

    Now, where does me being new benefit anybody? I'm not stuck on traditions or habits. Now don't get me wrong.... I do not mean to insult or down play any traditions what so ever,

     

    Just saying how many folks had issued with EFI in cars and still wanted to tap the gas before starting? You'd flood out your car. Dimmer switches went from the floor to the steering column.

    You no longer use telephone operators to call anybody. Self service gas stations....All changes that were hard to do...AT FIRST!

     

    There is an old saying: "Old habits die hard."

     

     

    Blah blah blah.

     

    Basically my point is: The shirts probably changed after the books were already printed. The next set of books will probably show and list green and tan numbers only. Of course by then, the numbers may be purple on pink,,,but that's next years problem.

     

    Oh yeah, one more thing- I did read..somewhere..can't remember where: The red and white numbers are still correct, and do not have to be changed. You can wait until you buy your next uniform shirt to do that!Red and white can be phased out with new scouts too.

  16. While trher is more to pride than the uniform, the uniform is a great sign of pride. I don't think a uniform will foster or inhibit pride.

    It is my beliefe that the uniform is a symbol of pride.

    If you are proud of what you do, and what group you belong to...you will wear that uniform!

     

    As a former asst fire/ water rescue chief of a beach town, we used to practice and hold training right next to, and on the beach. We luanched at public boat ramps and during toursit seasn, wre definantly in the public eye. We'd have Jr fire fighters from other counties, across the sate and as far as 5 states away stop by our station. Most of the time, these guys would throw on FD dress shirt or at leasta duty shirt when the stopped by.

    Now I had a member of my dept ask me one day:"Why does he have his dress shirt, he's 3 states out of his district!"

    My member meant it wasn't practical for that guy to have a shirt - he would not need 3 states from his own FD.

     

    So why did he have it?

     

    BECAUSE HE WAS A FIRE FIGHTER AND DAMN PROUD OF IT!

     

    Another example: When my niece was 4 or 5, she was enrolled in a dance class. My sister in law was trying to get my niece to show my wife and me how to do a tumble. My niece howled and cried that she could not do it unless she had her dance outfit on.

    First, you will never win an argument witha 3 year old, PERIOD!

    Second, she was proud of that outfit and just had to wear it.

     

    In both case, pride over came what people thought at the immediate moment.

    So basically, my long and drug out point was : If you get them proud again, they will proudly wer the uniform. But the uniform will not make them proud not lose that pride.

     

    At least as long as the Cub/Boy Scout uniform is not made of pink spandex. Then it's a different story!

  17. This is a truely tough spot to be in:

    This is a case where everybody sure had better have had all the details written in the contracts. Yet, as is the case most of the time, unless you have a contract for a determined amout of time ( say like a month, year or particular weekend), it's pretty much impossible to plan ahead and foresee all potential issues that could arise.

     

    I live in a rural ditrict. No city limits. but i live a half mile from one town, and 3 miles from the other. Yep!Sandwiched right in the middle. ( Inerestingly enough, I have a Surf City fire/rescue/ building inspection district - a Holly Ridge phone exchange, and a Hampstead ( over 12 miles away) mailing address! )

    One town has a population of about 900. The other has a seasonal population of 600/3,000

    Some years, the town cannot afford the expense of a "holiday tree" as the call it now, so a group of citizens gets together and donates a tree, plants it (or whatever they do to stick it in place) and even goes out and buys the decorations.

    The town didn't ask them too, but the citizens of the community rallied together to continue the tradition. They did it with the town's approval.

    So here's the question: Did the town do it's employess wrong by letting the volunteers erect and decorate the tree?

    The merits of your decision should be based on

    A0 The town would not have had a tree if it had to be paid for as the budget wouldn't allow it.

    B) The town is comprised of it's citizens who ultimately, the town serves.

    C) Either way you look at it, the union employees guys would not have set up the tree. They did not lose out.

     

    But as a counter point, You do have to find out if the town had a pre planning session the previous summer and planned the "woe is us" speech about not affording a tree in attemps to get volunteers step up.

     

    Now in the scouts case, I do not thin the city tried to get free services by using the scout, nor did it cheat the union guys.

    Matter of fact, It is my beliefe that had the scout not volunteers to do this project, there would still be no path, no thought of a path, and the biggets issue right now would be wether to sue the town over Christmas decorations!

     

     

  18. Abel, it's all good! Same thing happens here. Or I misunderstand what somebody commented on, and I bust them for agreeing with me..or worst case, I call out commenter "A" for something commenter "B: said! That's the best.then you have to back track, appologize and retract what you said to somebody who didn't say anything to start with!

     

    Let's not even talk about how one single misplaced or forgotten apostrophie can change the entire meaning of a word or comment! :o

  19. Come on..I make moot points based on stuff that didn;'t happen?

     

    IE: "Just imagine if there was no union involved. ABC Trail Construction inc. had signed a contract with the city to build that trail. Then the local trail association volunteered to build it. So the city told ABC to take a hike. ABC would have the city in court so fast you heads would spin."

    That was me qouting somebody else. My argument was intended to be as moot as the original comments on purpose!

    The only thing I mention your name about was the agreement that there is not enough details. Know what I mean? I was agreeing with you. As fat ss picky to deytails, too many are arguing the importance of wether unions are good are bad, when the real issue is about wether a city broke a rule or if the boy scout erred. Not wether unions are favorable or not.

    If we went into "super picky" detail, we could talk about why unions demanded GM to pay employees $65 an hour to stay home. Why unions sue companies when the employees themselves don't want to be union and vote to not be union.

    Why do unions just automatically asume that if i don't want to be union, it's because I was coerced..yet if I'm not union, the union will threaten anybody and everybody who even considers hiring me.

     

    Way back when, unions were the life blood of protecting workers.

    Today MOST unuions are just rackets that demand money for able bodied people to be able to work. Basically, it's a club where you have to pay a handful of people to be able to do a job that you could already do with protection from the federal labor laws, depart,ment of labor, employment security commision and Department of revenue.

     

    Just like insurance companies that charge a membership fee in order to be able to buy their insurance?

     

    Are you kidding me? I have to pay you money in order to pay you money? I don;t think so!

     

    But again, I AGREE with your statement about not enough info!

  20. "...165-mile Delaware and Lehigh National Heritage Corridor. He noticed there were a few missing connections to the trail in Kimmets Lock Park, which is on the Lehigh River near Dauphin Street"

     

    Now, this sounds like a National (read federal) Parks thing to me the more I think about it. This may be outside the city and unions area of authority.

     

    Abel, I agree that there is not enough info to make a sound and educated decision on.

     

    But truth be known, The scout might actually be the nephew of the union rep and was asked / offered the job in a ploy for the union guys to get attention and flex their muscle.

     

    But again,

    1) was the city ever gonna clear the trial?

     

    2)Would the union guys have been asked or expected to clear it if the scout hadn't volunteered?

     

    If the answer is no to either of those questions, the Union has more than over stepped their bounds.

     

    If the answer is yes, then it's an issue between the city and the Union and not the scout who actually went through the proper channels and followed protocal and sought permission and blessings from the city.

     

    For the Union to talk to or pursue any scouts whatsoever would be akin to strong arming, rackateering , and MAFIA style tactics!

    The Unuion has no buisness taking issue with the scout, who so far might be the only guy to follow procedure here.

     

    What is the union gonna do, ask the scout to pay the union employees what they think is a fair wage for services that "might" have been lost?(This message has been edited by scoutfish)(This message has been edited by scoutfish)

  21. I'm not the "super picky, stuck on details " kinda guy, but.......

     

    "Just imagine IF there was no union involved. ABC Trail Construction inc. had signed a contract with the city to build that trail. Then the local trail association volunteered to build it. So the city told ABC to take a hike. ABC would have the city in court so fast you heads would spin."

     

    That's alot of "IF".

     

     

    Just imagine if the city had no plans whatsoever of building a trail. What if no contracts were signed, written or even thought of. Imagine if nobody was contacted, consulted or even had the job mentioned to them. Imagine if nobody.....not one single citizen even ever thought about making a trail. Until a Scout came up with the idea.

    OH WAIT! That is what happened, we don't have to imagine.

     

    Nobody lost work, wages or had a job taken away from them. The city didn't circumvent paying workers to do a job as the city never had any idea whatsoever about the trail until the scout brought up the idea of creating one for a scout project!

     

    Like I said, I'm not a super stick to all minor details kind of guy, but we can "imagine" and "what if" all day long!

     

    What if the scout in question was actually a sexual predator who's covert motive was to build a trail to attack women joggers? Oh the horror of it all: The city not only enabled the future rapist/killer...they gave him their blessings and screwed over union guys at the same time! Somebody call FOX news ASAP!

     

    Somebody should go to jail as this is obviously a conspiracy!

  22. ABEL:

     

    "The question is this - It is the city's job to maintain and clear the trails?"

     

    Actually, that isn't the question.

    The question would be: "What trail?"

     

    The one the city already has, or the one that did not exist until the boy made it?

     

    Basically, The city can't routuinely maintain and handle upkeep on something that isn't there.

    The scout is not cleaning up or redefining a trail. He is in fact, creating from scratch, the trail in question!

  23. The more I look at it, the more I see this path as a great idea

     

    1)I suppose the City could pay the union guys to maintain it. Tah Dah! Instant paying work!

     

    2) The pack/ Troop could maintain it. Maybe even tie into some sort of conservation, green Earth project?

     

    3) A great excuse for a weekend scout outing. Everybody gets together, does community service,goes to the park for hot dogs afterward, and has fun in fellowship.

     

    4) Maybe a good place to a PL to get some experience detting up a duty roster: Tom will rake, Billy pushes the wheelbarrow, Joey picks up bottle trash paper on the ground. Tom (because he is oldest) prunes back branches that are sticking into the path.

    Pl does his best to make sure everybody is doing their job and that al spirits are up.

    The following year/ 6 months, another PL can again maintain the path with his duty roster.

     

    OR..The union guys can attack the scout, demand the city lets the path grow over( since they didn't do it), the newspapers writes a story about it, and everybody loses.

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