Scoutfish

New here and fairly new to scouting.

I already made my first post ( http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=258197 )

But probably should have introduced myself a little better first:

I am a 38 year old male. Father of one. I have been married for 14 years now.I install garge doors for a living. I used to be first captain, then worked my way to Deputy Chief of a fire dept and water rescue squad ( volunteer).

Right now, I'm just a parent volunteer, but have started taking classes ( ten so far) and am working on being a den Leader. First though, I pl;an on being an asst Den Leader to get a little more practice. Then looking to be a den leader.

My son joined last year as a wolf after him and his mother thought it would be a good idea to go to the school roundup. I had no idea what I was in store for.

And let me be honest here...I hated it at first. I was only accomidating my son. I got pretty tired of the "hurry up and rush home, pick up my son, and head to scouts before I even had a chance to shower and eat" life style really fast!

But you know, over time (and without realizing it) I started having fun. It went from my son begging me to go , to me telling my son we need to get ready.

At first you help a kid drive a nail,then you end up cutting the next batch of wood patterns at home, then one night, you take a handfull of boys and show them ..whatever it is you are doing that night.

After a weekend pack family camping trip, my eyes were completely opened in a new way. I help teach kids simple things like how to shot a BB gun. I taught thenm it was okay to not always be perfect, and by joining in on an adult skit, showed them it was okay to just luagh at outrselves.

Let me tell you.......having a kid high five you for hitting a bulls eye after only his 4th try EVER shooting a BB gun is a great feeling. Seeing kids giggle in honest fun while performing in a skit was great.

And having total strangers' kids say thank you (and mean it) while helping cook breakfast actually gives you hope for the future!

I was raised to say thank you, yes sir, no maam.

You didn't touch stuff that wasn't yours , and you carried you own weight. You take care of your family before your own selfish needs.

I cannot live with owning a $40,000.00 truck if it means my son might not have decent clothes or enough to eat.

You respect all people and respect others differences.

Meanwhile, you have to earn, not demand respct for your self!

You do your work witha sense of pride, and take pride in what you do no matter how small or menial the job is. I'd rather be proud to scrub toilets correctly than to do a half rate job as an engineer or architect.

I'm not racist, predjudiced, sexist or bigoted. I have my beliefs and will stick to them, all the while respecting AND understanding that you have your own too!

So, how do I raise my son to carry on my values?

Turns out that Scouting has them all right there in front of me!

Now,I'm the kind of guy who doesn't like to stir things up, or cause waves- but if I have to, I will. I see the greater good of the pack/ troop as being far more important than the good of one.

I'm a joking kind of guy and I just enjoy life. I tend to be a smart tail sometimes, but I truely mean it in a "luaghing with you" sort of way, not lauging at you.

If I offend anybody, it is not my intentions. If I offend you, chances are very very good that I was just trying to be funny, but failed!

BklynEagle;

I had a friend who signed his son up at the same time I did at the school round up. We both paid our pro-rated dues and paid for pro-rated mgazine suscriptions.

Then my friend found out that:

1) He had to drive a whole 12 miles to the den/ pack meetings, and

2) He was expected to stay at the meeting with his Tiger Cub, and not just drop him off.

This friend grumbled about how his parents used to always drop him off when he himself was a scout. He then told his son that he had to wait for a Tiger Den to form in our area before he could attend . Told him was some sort of pack rule. Then within a month, convinced his son that Scouting was a dull, boring thing to do that would get him picked on.

And we wonder where pride in anything went to?

The same thing that happened to everybody: We turned into a "it's not my fault/ it's all about what I want" society!

Scouting must be all about my son only, Therefore, pride or whatever takes a backseat to whatever my son thinks it should be!

It went AWOL along with taking pride in your neighborhood, your school, your work and how well you do your job!

I would say more, but I have to run the final pinewood derby car plans through my computer so I can go ahead and start building for my son!

Many Hats, It happens sometimes. What could you do differently? Who knows.

I only know to put it into perspective this way:

About 10 years ago, the wife and I went on a family (her family) vacation that consisted of driving 3 states away. We were visiting her mom's family.

We consisted of 4 families (mine, 2 different sister in laws' families, and the parents) that stayed in 2 different cabins ( 2 families per cabin)at a state park (great prices by the way!)

The oldest sister to my wife wanted to know who was gonna watch her kids , and at what time.

My wife looked at her and asked: Why do you think we are supposed to watch your kids?"

My sister inlaw looked at us with such horror and amazement and asked my wife ( I am soooo not making this up!) "WHY DID YOU COME THEN?"

So my point is this: If a person actualy thought that other people would take vacation time from work, spend hundreds of dollars on gas, food, lodging and meals, and drive 3 states away - just to watch her kids while she "vacationed" - what could I or anybody else ever say to make her understand?

If you are in that state of mind to start with...then there is nothing anybody can ever say to convince or educate her otherwise!

So the mom left the meeting and probably the troop/ pack. I hate that it happened, but again, if she's in the state of mind that it's all about, and only about her son, then there will be nothing you can ever say or do to show her other wise.

But in the big picture, you now will have assitants who will spend time with all the kids equally, and not just when "their" kid needs it.

Again, I hate if for that scout, but it's for the best of the greater good of the pack/troop!(This message has been edited by scoutfish)(This message has been edited by scoutfish)

F Scouter; Let me clarify; I by no means meant that -being in the military was the only way to serve. I just wanted to point out that while we take for granted things like hot fresh served meals - others are eating cold food froma plastic pouch.

But I whole heartedly agree: There are many, many ways to serve your country in an outstandingh fashion while not actually enlisting in the military

There are those who take care of out citizens, those who work for and look out for the public, and of course, those who take care of our servicemen and women wether directly or indirectly.(This message has been edited by scoutfish)

"doesn't feel the need to help out if it's not her weekend with her son."

I'm not trying to be cynical here, but that statement says it all to me.

Any and all parental involvement is welcome, but as an assitant, the priority needs to be more for the Troop/ Pack/ Den than for an individual child.(This message has been edited by scoutfish)

We are in the midst of our "Scouting for food" campaign.

Today, I had a neighbor bring me his bag of canned goods to my house. He explained that he has (in his words) "Coast Guard stuff" to do this weekend and wouldn't have been able to leave his canned ggods on his doorstep as the door hanger asked.

So After thanking him and his departure , I noticed he put a MRE in the bag as well as the canned goods.

It took maybe an hour, but it dawned on me that here is a guy who is in the Coast Guard Reserve, used to be a 12 ywaer active Coastie, and still does his duty to his country...and he brought me canned goods early to make sure they got delivered.

Now, this guy eats cold MRe's in the field while I sait at home eating a meal that is fresh from the oven/ gril/ stove, in a heated/ cooled house. I'm not getting rained on, shot at, or sitting in extreme weather conditions.

I know what time my next meal will be also. Maybe I'll call Dominoes if it's just too much of a hasle to cook.

You see where I'm going with this?

In the Cub Scout handbook, it breaks down the Cub Scout Promise to it's various and individual meanings.

"I promise to do my best, to do my duty to God AND MY COUNTRY, To help other people , and To obey the law of the pack.

As the book points out :"AND MY COUNTRY" means to Do what you can for your country, and to be proud you are an American.

So maybe if the scouts saw what the very service men and women , who are putting their lives on the line (or who already gave the ultimate sacrifice) , while protecting our freedom to do prwtty much whatever we want....are on a daily basis - well, kinda makes ya think doesn't it?

Granted, each kid will take it in his own way, but thought it would be a great lesson.

Any thought on the subject?

Simply put, the greater good of the WHOLE pack/ troop is a priority over any one parents feelings.

She is not an ASSIT, she is not assisting you. She is concentrating only on her child at her convienance!

Okay, I'll be the odd man out here: As a former captain and asst chief of a volunteer fire dept and water rescue unit, I had experience with folks who also had children on our "Jr Squad". These parents wanted to be Jr Leaders - that is what we called adult leaders of our jr squad- , but in reality, they only wanted to hover over or work with their own kids.

At first, i too thought : "Any help is better than no help."...but soon found out the contrary. THis position was taken up for personal reasons and personal interests only. That adults kid had more than plenty of one on one time while other kids were completly ignored or patronized. The result? You end up with a squad of 1 child!

Now here's the issue : You have to ask yourself why you and the boys are here?

What is the purpose of Scouting?

What is the purpose of an asst?

What is the goal of everybody volunteering their time and getting togetrher?

The boys! All of them!

The assit is suppost to assit with the den/pack, whole shebang, right? If this assistant is only concentrating on one child, THEIR CHILD , then what is the benefit? In the bigger picture, what is the negative?

I personally think this asst should be (kindly and tactfully) asked to step aside as an asst, but be wholely and warmly welcomed as an active parent.

JM, I completely understand you on the popcorn issue!

My take on it this: I just signed my son up, just filled out the paperwork and handed over money. The first thing I got was a box of popcorn and the literature for popcorn sales.

I didn't know what den my son was going to be in, who his leader was going to be, what nights we were supposed to meet.

But I sure knew what popcorn to sell.

^The issue I have is not selling popcorn...but, WHEN, it needs to be sold. Why not wait a month?

As mentioned before school just started, vaction just ended, and everything is just a whirlwind of activity and information right now. Lets wait a month, get settled in, learn or roles and feel comfortable with wht we have and what we are doing.

Due to the sudden unexpectedness of it, I sold 3 individual units of popcorn. Just talking with friends..If it happened a month later, I could have sold over $200.00 worth with half the effort.

Now, as a somewhat experienced scout parent, it's no big deal anymore, but as a new parent, it blew me away and was the very first bad impression I got. For others, it WAS the deal breaker!

I appreciate any help. I want it to be fun, yet I want it to be productive too. I don't want to be too harsh and militant, yet again, I don't want to be too much of a "fun slacker" either.

Know what I mean? I want to find a good balance, and do something good for these guys.

And maybe somewhere along the way....everybody has a great time!(This message has been edited by scoutfish)

I'm fairly new to scouting. Last year, my son just started as a Wolf. This year, as you would assume, he is a Bear.

Now, I'll be completely honest, up until a month ago, my involvement was just "accomidating my son". That pretty much sums it up, It was something I did for him.

Now, don't get me wrong...I helped out as much as I could. I was involved. I cut wood patterns for 28 boys. I toted, copied, printed, dug, nailed, sawed, chopped..... you name it, I helped out.

Same thing this year. Helped out any way I could. But then we went on a camping trip ( last year, previous plans had been made before joining scouts).It was a family camp out, so moms, sisters, brothers and the like were all there. Each Den had it's duties...Wolves had breakfast duty, Bears had lunch, and Tigers had supper (biggest group).

Somehow, I helped to cook pancakes and bacon for over 175 boys. I helped cook lunch and chop pig for supper too. I also helped teach the the archery and rifle(BB gun) range. Basically, I worked my butt off!

But you know what, I had a blast! There is nothing like seeing a kid who has never been camping , smile and act excited about this new adventure. There is nothing like having a kid who never ever shot a BB gun - give you a high five right after he hit the bulls eye.

Seeing the boys faces after learning something new, or when they discover that they are brave enough to go on a night hike after all, is just an awesome feeling. And us adults had a great time laughing and joking the whole trip.

Okay, there wasn't any boyscouting available to me as a child, so I had a skewered way of looking at it.

So, long drawn out story short.....PHEW! I just turned in my adult application and have taken ten online courses so far. I plan to be a den leader, but first want to put in some time as an assistant den leader.

Now after all that rambling, my question is: How much time does it take to become an honest to goodness , yet effective den leader?

I know I could jump in any time, but I want to do it right, not fast!