ScouterPaul

This will be an interesting story to follow. On the trashy issue I agree. Richmond - Were you at Crooked Creek 6/20 - 6/26? If so what camp site? We were there in camp site #3. Great week with only a couple of partials. On the policing the campsite area the staff member who checked us out did so before were had policed the area. He said that it looked good to him and signed off. I replied it's not good enough for me.

Do the older boys in your Troop attend summer camp? If not at what age do they generally stop attending? Do you have high adventure trips for the older boys and summer camp for the younger?

I have until know stayed out of this thread because I would be in over my head. However, a conversation I had last week, during summer camp, with a new scout got me to thinking. The question has been asked why would a parent put their son in a program that is built around "duty to God" and "reverence" if they didn't believe in God. The scout in question is 11 years old, an analytical and inquisitive kid. Walking back to the camp site after attending Vespers he asked me if I went to church. I was honest and said no. He then asked why and I said that I believed God was all around us and not just behind the walls of a church. I asked him if his family went to church and he said no. I asked why and he replied that his parents didn't believe in God. I asked him if he did and his answer was "I don't know, I don't see enough proof". Our conversation continued along the lines of do you believe in a higher power ect. I finally asked him if he believed in Heaven and he said yes. I know some of you will disagree with me but his answer told me that deep down he did believe in God. During family night I told his father about our conversation and asked him if the religious aspect of scouts bothered him. He replied that it was only part of scouts and that the values, skills, friends and experiences his son would have outweighs the regligious aspect. He also stated that a person's religious beliefs are personal and that he was happy with his son questioning God and hoped that when he was mature enough he would make his own decision regarding God.

Leatherman

Wow!! Who is in charge? The Dads or the PLC? Sounds more like a family outing than a troop outing. Less than 50% attendance - unfortunately it happens. How much does the outing cost? Summer vacation? Our Troop allows guests on our outings - so far they have only been families of boys interested in becoming a scout. I like my beer, however, never on a scout outing. I can wait until I get home. Sounds like you or someone needs to curtail this outing before it gets out of hand.

Would there be field trips to the local Girl Scout Camp?

Luckily we haven't had that problem yet. I however rely on my blackberry for work and send/recieve numerous emails during the day. Since my employer provides me with a "free" week for summer camp I feel that the least I can do is to attempt to fullfill my obligations. That being said I keep it in my pocket (out of sight) and use it when the boys are not around.

Bob I am in 100% agreement that we all need to follow the policies and methods. However, as I understand Roosters posts he has stated that he has willfully chosen to follow only the part(s) that he agrees with. So if it is ok for him to only follow part of the 12th law why wouldn't it be okay for an athiest?

Ed fact n 1: a piece of information about circumstances that exist or events that have occurred; "first you must collect all the facts of the case" 2: a statement or assertion of verified information about something that is the case or has happened; "he supported his argument with an impressive array of facts" 3: an event known to have happened or something known to have existed; "your fears have no basis in fact"; "how much of the story is fact and how much fiction is hard to tell" 4: a concept whose truth can be proved; "scientific hypotheses are not facts" Source: WordNet 1.6, 1997 Princeton University

Rooster, Do you believe that an avowed atheist leader should be prohibited from being a registered leader?

Ed, Whose God are we under...yours or mine? Isn't that the crux of the issue. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion" And isn't God central to most but not all religions? "In 1954, Congress after a campaign by the Knights of Columbus, added the words, 'under God,' to the Pledge." In my humble opinion this looks as if Congress established a God based religion or at he very least championed a God based religion.

FOG I like your ideal about collected gas money and giving it to the boys when they run out at camp. Is Scouting my hobby - yeah I would have to say it is. However, I receive back far more than I ever put in. I no longer golf every weekend so the amount of money I spend on the Troop is less than if I was golfing...a win win for everyone.

FOG Page 282 Boy Scout Handbook Page 126 Fieldbook

Bob I understand and fully endorse checks and balances. Unfortunately, in my opinion, the current administration does not believe in them. What we have now is not checks and balances. Bush can detain any U.S. Citizen, strip them of all their rights and detain them for as long as he wishes. These people do not have access to a lawyer, they do not have to be told why they are detained, they get no hearing in front of a Judge and they can not tell anyone that they have been detained once they have been relaeased. Whether it is only one person or several hundred is a moot point. Every U.S. citizen is guaranteed certain rights under the constitution. Bush has chosen to ignore these protections. In answer to an earlier poster I would be against these actions regardless of their political party.

Let's start with his stripping American citizens of their rights afforded to them under the Bill of Rights.

Not only are they still on the air they have an additional 22 stations coming aboard during the next month or so.

What's your point? Do you know something that the rest of us don't. Was Iraq responsible for 911? What about Nixon and Cambodia, Regan and Iran-Contra. Do you really believe that Bush has single handedly stopped any and all terrorist attacks? Is he the worst president ever? No. But has he done more damage to the constitution of the United States of America than any other President -absolutely.

In my younger days I thought of myself as an atheist. However, I determined that I was and still am anti-organized religion. I do know several atheist and they don't give a darn what your religion is. You can do what you want just don't force your religion on them. Tolerance ummm. That being said, I have a question of Rooster. It would appear by your post than only those religions that believe in Christ are true "Religions" is this your belief? Paul

Herms - You were correct. The New Scout tangent would have been better off in it's own thread. However, I think you answered your own question. "On the flip side I see the boys that crossed over last year and are merged with the older scouts, kind of floundering and trying to find an identity, and have not as yet even attained Tenderfoot and I dont see that they have grown much over the past year." There is the proof in the pudding. Concerning the orginal post I can't improve what has already been said. Paul

God Bless everyone involved.

Thank you all for you responses. It appears that I had been right in questioning the SM based all all the responses. It has been a very busy week. We had a successfull campout this past weekend. Eammon your original post made me sit back and reflect upon my actions. I can honestly say that I did not act in such a way as to make him appear dumb or to hurt him. Thank you for making me do this reflection. Dan you bring up an interesting question (the my/our troop tangent doesn't matter - I don't care what you call it as long as you are following the program). You said "If the SM says that no scouts may sleep in a tent by themsleves, that is what the troop rule is." My response would be isn't that a PLC decision? To my knowledge there isn't anything in the Guide to Safe Scouting concerning how many youth sleep in a tent. If it isn't a safety issue or against BSA policy then it's the Scouts decision. Paul

Our SM resigned this past Monday. There are many reasons for his decision. However, the primary one was, I don't like being questioned and I'm not going to be. History - We are a fairly new and small Troop (11 Scouts). We have 5 people on the committee (one just signed on) with only 3 adults active on a weekly basis who are the only adults who attend all the outings. My current position is MC with quite a bit of ASM duties. The old SM and myself are both Woodbadge trained. Our relationship over the last year or so can best be described as strained. What I would like to know is if I was out of line by questioning him (in private or in a committee situation) concerning his decisions. Let me give you several examples: 1. "I am the SM and I get to appoint the SPL and other leaders." (I pointed out to him what the SM Handbook, and the Boy Scout Handbook stated concerning these positions.) 2. "The Patrols must meet 2 times a week in addtion to the Troop meeting. (When questioned he stated that it was in the Patrol Leaders Handbook) 3. "If I don't think the boys have a mastery of the First Class Scout skills I won't pass them on their SM Conference." (I pointed out that we can not add or detract from any of the requirements and that the Scouts need to do exactly what is stated. I read the SM Conference requirement to him and stated that by participating in the conference the Scout fullfilled that requirement.) He replied by stating that "I'm the SM and if I want to make the SM conference pass/fail I can." His favorite reply whenever I quoted from the handbook was "The Handbook is only a guide". Was I out of line by calling him on what I considered flagerant digressions from the program?

A trail meal is anything a boy wants. Most of our Scouts on backpacking trips eat ramen noodles with a foil type package of chicken or tuna. We have one who likes macaroni and peperoni with a butter sauce. Most of them utilze the one pot method of cooking. They realized early on it is easier to cleanup.

Rooster No matter how you slice and dice it "Farm Boy" was meant as an insult and was taken as such. It is a shame that we can't discuss issues without resulting to throwing insults around. Business Executive, Teacher (my wife is one), Fireman (my brother-in-law is one) are all noble occupations. You didn't say Farmer which also a noble occupation. ScoutPaul, "The point is and I had hoped you could have figured this out on your own I have more faith in our federal intelligence communities and the presidents willingness and ability to act accordingly when informed by them, then I do in the average Joe (or even the above average Joe) sitting on the sidelines bent on critiquing the current administration" Trust me I got your point. But down here on the farm we know when there is a fox in the hen house even if the fox says it aint so.

I am in the middle of discussions with our SM concerning Scoutmaster Conferences. He has recently "failed" several Scouts during their conference. These boys failed because the failed to recite the signs of a heart attack and/or safety afloat. My point to the SM was that he is adding to the requirement by making a SM Conference pass fail. Please correct me if I'm wrong but the requirement states that the boy participate in a Scoutmaster conference. Thanks Paul