Rooster7

Trevorum, Apparently, you either do not understand the Scout Oath or you choose to ignore it. If a Buddhist Scout says, God does not exist (which you claim is a valid view for the Buddhist faith), he cannot fulfill his duty to God. Regardless of how you define God, you cannot fulfill your duty to God if you dont even believe that God exists. Its that simple. Assuming your understanding of the Buddhist faith is correct, then I think the BSA needs to modify their membership standards or the Scout Oath. As I stated, I prefer that they leave the Scout Oath intact.

Trevorum, I really hope I am just misinterpreting what Rooster said - it sure seemed that he implied that Buddhists were not qualified to be members of the BSA. I'll let Kahuna or another Buddhist member of our forum answer that charge. I have no intimate knowledge of Kahunas faith. I presume since he is a member of the BSA that he believes in God. As you said, he can comment on that if he so wishes. I never made a charge against Buddhistsyou did. You informed us that the Buddhist faith does not require one to believe in God. For membership, Scout and Scouters are required to be

Trevorum, If being Buddhist means its followers do not necessarily have to believe in God, then I think the BSA needs to reassess their membership requirements. Clearly, the Scout Oath requires a Scout to carry out his duty to God. If a Scout does not believe in God, then he cannot be faithful to this part of the Scout Oath. My grandmothers are not alive today. But tagging this question as "offensive" belies logic.

Judging by some of these posts, I get the feeling that we should never challenge a Scout to rise above the lowest known threshold that a previous Scout might have exhibited. Or put another way, if one Scout loses his composure when given a particular question, we should take that as a clue that weve pushed him beyond his intellectual and emotional limits. Ask a Scout about his beliefs in God? What fiends we are, for being such insensitive cads! What next! Ask the boy if hes willing to defend his country? Ask him if he respects and obeys his elders? How dare we? I see the public s

I agree with Ed. I think the question is straight forward (Do you believe in God?) and does not have the implication that other folks have voiced (i.e. Are you lying to us?). If the BOR is to judge the Scouts attitude and his acceptance of Scouting Ideas, I think its perfectly reasonable for them to ask a few pointed questions. I doubt my grandmother would even find this question offensive...and shes not attempting to advance to the highest rank in Scouting. And frankly, while I happily accept the judgment of the BOR (those who actually see and hear the boy directly as he answers each

Merlyn, While I still don't appreciate your stand against the BSA, I am beginning...(well let's not get carried away here) Driving on the righthand side of the road. Some countries drive on the left side, but that doesn't make it immoral. It's just a convention so driving "works". No religious motivation for that law. But what's the underlying reason...what "works"? The law is establishing guidelines so that citizens cannot inadvertently cause one another physical harm or to lose property. The moral judgment being made is this: One's freedom is secondary when one's choices ca

Fuzzy Bear, I challenge you to identify a single law, any law that does not have a moral premise. Eventually, all laws come down to beliefs in "right and wrong", a.k.a. morality. In this country, where one gets those beliefs should not matter. What should matter is - what moral truth does the majority want to embrace. BadenP, You claim to embrace Christ, but you are very quick to make venomous statements, especially against fellow believers. While Christ was quick to rebuke the Pharisees and the Sadducees, He knew their hearts. That is to say, it was not their strict adheren

Paddlesack, We sometimes discuss our beliefs openly and without fear of criticism or accusation. But I guess if someone were to join and then try to convince the rest of us that their knowledge was absolute, they might come to think we were prejudiced against them. Especially if we didn't say we agreed with them. 'Victim stance' is the thinking error that comes to mind. I dont consider myself to be a victim. Yet, I cant help but believe that you have come to some rather unflattering conclusions merely because you find the beliefs of my faith to be harsh, and/or you are unsettled by

I dreamed of Jeannie...Mary Ann and Ginger didn't stand a chance. Barbara Eden is holding up so well, I'll bet she can still make adolescent boys dream.(This message has been edited by Rooster7)

Prairie_Scouter, Generally, I don't like the idea of abortion as a method of birth control, but I think that in the bigger picture, the woman has to retain control over her body. I agree that a woman should have control over her body. But then again, the abortion argument does not concern the body of the woman as much as it does the body of the baby in her. I think the babys right to life is greater than that womans right to choice.

Merlyn, By having the attorneys arguing in favor of the law explain what secular purpose the law serves. If they can't come up with ANY non-religious reasons for a law, it deserves to be struck down. What if the law served two masters? That is, suppose there was a valid secular reason for the law, but the law was also agreeable to others for religious reasons. For example, many Americans believe that the fetus is a life. There is no real medical evidence to say differently. Of course, there are doctors that claim certain fetuses, those not viable outside of the womb, should not

stlscouter, I think we're in agreement. Merlyn, "What if" - the majority of Americans voted (or rather elected representatives) to outlaw murder because God's law and/or spirit inspired them to do so. Would you argue before the Supreme Court that the law should be overturned because it was "religiously inspired"? And frankly, how could you prove such a claim? Polls? Prairie_Scouter, "What if" - the majority of Americans felt that abortion was murder and voted (elected representatives) to ban its practice? Does it really matter why they feel its wrong? I think n

Hunt, Excellent points. Prairie_Scouter, Concerning "religiously inspired" movements to create laws, if the purpose of the proposed law is to make others ("non-believers", "non-followers", whatever) to conform to a particular faith, then I would certainly agree with you. However, most proposed laws usually concern one's behavior which purportedly violates the moral standards of a community. For example, we as a society believe that underage drinking is wrong, so we've created laws to penalize individuals who contribute to that end. It shouldnt matter if you think its

Rooster, I think the problem here is that nobody really is portraying ALL "Bible-believing Christians" as being hateful or arrogant or anything else. I never said "ALL Bible-believing Christians". There are some people (including me) who believe that SOME members of many different religions are hateful, arrogant, etc. If some people have a particular concern about those Christians who are hateful and bigoted, it is simply because they are the overwhelming majority religion in this country. Women are the majority in this country. Should they fear them too? And I just can't

Why care? By that I mean, why even trouble yourself with the question of why do people dislike you for your Christian beliefs? We are not the first generation of Christians to be insulted for our faith, and we will surely not be the last. From the standpoint of my personal feelings, I am not troubled that some choose to portray us as hateful or arrogant. My hope (by asking the question) was to get non-believers to think about itto produce a little introspection. Its my belief that if folks understood Christians a little better, they might be more incline to listen to the message. If

arrowman168, Have you considered the possibility that your experiences are not mine? Second, I did not start this thread. I responded to the question.

Foxwhisker8, I appreciate your story and understand your point of view. Just to let you know...not everyone on this forum thinks you're an elitist. I think realist might be more appropriate. I think the original intent behind the program was for boys to be mentored into men, by men. It made sense back then. It makes sense today. However, I am grateful for the many women who have stepped up to fill the void left by uninvolved dads.

I rarely disagree with Ed, but I dont understand the ban on hotdogs. If every camping trip was all about the food, I could understand the ban. That is to say, if the boys are being taught how to prepare a real meal out in the woods, its a good idea. However, some trips are about the hiking or something else. Hotdogs are relatively light weight, preserve fairly well, dont require a lot of cooking (if any), and are definitely easy to makean idea food for a short backpacking trip. We allow other foods such as chips, gorpe, MREs, oodles of noodles, and the like why not hotdogs? At the end o

Hunt, I'm happy we are not in opposite corners, but I have to disagree about dad's input being mere hearsay. He, and presumably the kid's mother are the boy's guardians. They should know better than anyone else how he behaves when he's not around the troop. Still, I do agree that if the boy is going to confronted with this issue that mom and dad should be present. However, unlike a criminal court, I would place more credence in what the parents have to say. In third party arbitration, the arbitrator is allowed to make his own judgment based upon the preponderance of the evidence incl

If someone claimed the sky to be a color other than blue or the world to be flat, I would not begrudge him. Would I try to convince him otherwise? Yes. Would I resent his apparent self-deception? No. I would simply try to show him why he is wrong. Faith is not believing when you are not sure of what you believe. Faith is believing. Its that gift from God that allows one to believe in Him; not in the potential of Him, but in God as He truly is. I dont see my faith as a religion that will carry me through life. I see my faith as truth (i.e. the sky is blue). Faith by definition

If Christians chose their beliefs as if they were choosing vegetables in a grocery store, then I can understand why someone might view a Christian as arrogant. However, my brothers and sisters in Christ dont want anyone to be barred from the kingdom of Heaven. Its not as if weve done something which entitles us to Gods graceit is an unmerited gift. No believer sees himself as more deserving of Gods love than others. So, again, while I understand some of the teachings which Christians understand and impart to others are harsh. We are simply messengers.

I agree with OGE, KoreaScouter, emori, Kahuna, and others. There seems to be a strong consensus across the board. Have a meeting. Discuss future possible consequences. Above all, try to show this kid the error of his ways but don't embarrass him further. Also I would try to find a gentle way of showing the committee their place. They are over stepping their bounds.

The following post is not intended to single out any particular individual. It is a general observation. Why is it, whenever Bible-believing Christians share their beliefs about homosexuality or other contentious issues of the day, inevitably said Christians are portrayed as ignorant, arrogant, hateful, bigoted, or combination of the all of these? I am keenly aware that there are self-proclaimed Christians that deserve these labels. Ive seen so-called pastors lead their parishioners to protest rallies where hatred seemed to be the theme of the day. However, relatively speaking these

I see two issues: 1) Is he indeed breaking the law? As has been pointed out previously, depending on the circumstances (i.e. at home under parent supervision and in moderation), no law may have been broken by this youth. If he has broken a law, then clearly the board has every right to hold up the process. 2) Is he abusing himself or acting dishonorably by consuming alcohol? I realize that some folks believe, due to his age, any usage is abuse. I'm not thoroughly convinced that is true. I personally believe that its acceptable for young teenagers to have a small glass of wine -

Perhaps - as the Bible says, The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it? Jeremiah 17:9