RememberSchiff

Me? Mostly interested in hearing about Maine High Adventure Camp and OKPIK programs if you were involved or experienced them.

@@nuwriter . Welcome to scouter.com . Could you tell us about your experiences working for two New England Scout  Councils?

Some merit badge mills are touting themselves as "patrol method' camps in that patrols do their own patrol cooking.

Camp Bell in Griswold Scout Reservation (NH) once was a true patrol method camp. Not only did patrols plan and cook their own meals but planned their daily activities as well. MB classes were not offered., rather activity area. Sure a scout might get some rank, mb requirements but no completed blue card at end of the week.  Looking at the 2017 Leaders' Guide in appears to be moving  towards a mill. Hope I'm wrong.

Thank you!

You're welcome.

Formerly Exit 4

@@aveline  from the Garden State welcome to scouter.com

How about SCITELs , pronounced Skittles ,  SCouts In Training Ever Loyal.

I guess I kind of disregarded the "partner program" option, that is, an already-existing program for girls that would somehow affiliate with the BSA on a nationwide basis.  I don't know of a program with a "nationwide reach" that would fill the bill.  I know that some BSA units already have a partnership arrangement with Girl Scout units on a local basis, but I don't think the GSUSA is going to be interested in that on a nationwide basis, particularly after the BSA starts competing with GSUSA at the 5- to 10-year-old level.  Aside from that... Frontier Girls is just a curriculum with no actual organization; American Heritage Girls might have been an option at one point, but now they want nothing to do with the BSA and I don't think they share the same "values" as the BSA because AHG only accepts leaders of one religion; Campfire is already coed... did I miss anybody?

Then would girl Cubs go through a different Webelos (We Be Loyal To Something Else  )  to prepare for that "partner" program?

I have now watched the video posted by Matt (thank you Matt.)

 

It sounded to me like the CSE was ruling out coed Boy Scout troops (even with patrols separated by gender) and that the only thing being considered at that age level is a "parallel program" so that the female Cub Scouts will have something to cross over to.  Am I misinterpreting what he said?

Yes in video, the "Make Scouting More Accessible" argument and examples stopped at Cub Scouts. After that,  a separate and maybe equal argument was applied, i.e., a partner or parallel (in-house) program, family accessibility was not a concern. 

From slide

Will we find a partner?

   Shared values

   Nationwide reach

   Robust, similar curriculum

   top award as significant as Eagle

Create our own Program?

   parallel with Boy Scouting

   same program or adjusted for girls 

   is Eagle top award?

   Parallel honor society (OA)

   Camping questions

@@MattR thanks for posting video.  IMO, logical thinking appeared thin.

Family Scouting, dumbed down over-complicated programs,and ever increasing restrictions/costs worries me more than girls, gays, and the godless.

My $0.01

Just received my invite to our council's meeting.  It was mentioned in the email that the discussion of Family Accessibility would likely lead to girls participating cub scouts potentially as soon as this coming January.

Ask if they will have to take the exit before the Cross-Over bridge?

It does seem inconsistent that camp staff, either by camp policy or troop preference, commonly does not sign off on S-T-SC-FC requirements, their core competencies (I hope ) , while merit badge blue cards they do. 

IMO, it seems counter-productive to schedule "Making Scouting Accessible for Families" discussions during peak family summer vacation time - end of July, early August.

Whatever the change, I wonder if Councils will provide a resource pool of outdoorsy, scout-enthused women leaders for that coed 10 mile hike, canoe trip, etc.

I decided to google "Making Scouting Accessible for Families" and the first page of hits gave me six councils. 

 I googled and had a little deja vu, all over again when I found this , complete with a link back to this forum.

---------------

A commenter at the SCOUTER forum (for local leaders) posted about an email he received over the weekend about upcoming meetings to discuss future changes… that gave no indication at all about what those changes would be.

I am pretty sure that what the [scout Executive] will be discussing at this meeting is the admission of girls to Cub and Boy Scouting. But it’s not like the letter actually says that or anything. I think many of my fellow nearby Scouters are going to look at this and decide they do not wish to spend a couple of hours in the middle of the summer (when they might be on vacation and/or at summer camp and unable to attend anyway) discussing “how to make Scouting more accessible to today’s families.â€

…

… are they really interested in “gaining my perspective†(on a topic that they are not actually identifying before the meeting), or is this really part of a nationwide rollout of a decision that they’ve made already? Do they really want my opinion, or are they just going to try to sell me on what they’re going to do anyway? (These are mainly rhetorical questions.)

------------

Hmmm,  apparently said commenter has embolden media critics.

I have four Eagle due for EBORs who have pulled their applications for AFTER 8/1/17 as a result of this announcement.

I advise my scouts who are on the path to Eagle to

   1. earn it before you start filling out college and scholarship applications (junior year)

   2. earn it before National changes the requirements, e.g., Cooking MB.

My curiosity was piqued by the comment because I have always heard the comment about it being a bsa practice, but never seen it in any literature. In fact even the oldest literature is careful about using proper site selection for drainage as the requirement. I wonder if the practice was taught by military men returning from the wars and continued the military practice in scouts? It would not be the first time that military concepts have crept into scouting even if in conflict with official terms and ideals (eg Class A, B). Just some monday morning ponderings.

Ditching is described in my old 6th edition handbook . We would ditch our tents where we could NOT select our campsite such as at a open field camporee with rain in the forecast.

On the Camping Trail to First Class

Keeping out of the Rain, second, third paragraph,  p263

   If you've pitched your tent on a small elevation or on ground that absorbs the water quickly, you'll have little to worry about  Otherwise you may have to ditch your tent on the uphill side. The ditch need be only 4 inches deep and 4 inches wide Cut inside of ditch flush with tent wall. Place the sod you dig up at the outside edge of the ditch, and replace when camp is over.

  Remember that ditching on sloping ground may create an erosion problem - so only ditch in an emergency and not at all if not permitted, as in state and national parks.

http://newsok.com/article/5556322

Short but interesting article.

  - 1909,  the first OK Boy Scout troop was formed under a British charter as the BSA did not exist yet.

  - 1931,  "Oklahoma had approximately six hundred Boy Scout troops including twenty-three African American troops and one Hispanic troop..."

  - 1932,  "First Boy Scout Mounted Troop Is Organized." see link above for details.

Well according to his first paragraph, Mr. Stuckey, President of NLAS,  did attend the May National meeting. He is a member of the Duty to God working group. NLAS also has a seat on the Religious Relationships Committee ...

Do attendees sign a non-disclosure agreement?

I learned more about the National Meeting from his newsletter than I did from my SE.

@@BCscouter  welcome to scouter.com

From Lutheran Scouting Summer 2017 newsletter

http://nlas.org/wp-c...SUMMER-2017.pdf

(BSA) National Meeting by Wayne Stuckey, President NLAS page 6

"Online registration is now live for 78 councils. It allows Scouts to be registered and pay fees online. 4100 registrations have been processed in the last 3 months. Online registration is accessed from Be-A-Scout.org. "

From Lutheran Scouting Summer 2017 newsletter

http://nlas.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Lutheran-Scouting-SUMMER-2017.pdf

(BSA) National Meeting by Wayne Stuckey, President NLAS page 6

…

    Mike Surbaugh (Chief Scout Executive) – What is this in the news about girls? There has been a persistent pull within the organization to do something for young women, allowing them to have adventures and bond within a safe environment. Many studies say that young men and young women perform better in a same gender environment (but the studies are validated only for above age 11).

    There are threats and concerns to long term growth of the BSA. The structure of families has changed. 60% of families have both parents working; 27% are single parent households. These percentages are much higher in some underserved populations. Over 1/3 of parents feel they spend too little time with their families.

     The BSA program has what parents want for their children, but it is a challenge for them to access the organization. In using their limited time, they are looking for a one-stop service for serving the whole family. Many legacy organizations are following similar declining membership trends (referring to chart of  membership trends for PTO/PTA, Girl Scouts,Kiwanis, Rotary). Other youth serving organizations and service clubs are reflecting this stress on time. It’s all about access. It’s not about the quality of the program. We have a great program, but we cannot fight the structural changes of the family. Most innovative programs deal with overcoming limitations of structure.

      60% of parents of non-scouting, Cub Scout-aged children say they would enroll immediately if the program were accessible to their family. It appears there would be advantages to opening the Cub Scout program to girls. There are also a number of unknowns. Should dens be mixed, or should there be dens for boys and dens for girls? The best answer could be different for different charter partners. What happens at bridging to Boy Scouts? Given its national reach, similar values, nationally recognized top rank, the Boy Scout program is very appealing to girls and parents of girls. Again, there are unknowns to be addressed. Given the development studies, should BSA form its own program for girls? How similar would it be to Boy Scouts? Would it include the Eagle rank and joining the Order of the Arrow?

     Mr. Surbaugh emphasized that this not a decided policy change. No resolution was proposed for action by the National Committee. BSA is soliciting opinion of where to go next. Much needs to be considered before making such a major program change, but it must be addressed because the changes driving the membership trends will not go away. It was promised that there will be opportunities to comment and provide feedback. (bolded by RS)

     Mr. Surbaugh introduced the National Venturing President (Michelle Meritt) and National Chief of the Order of the Arrow (Forrest Gertin) for a youth perspective. Not speaking for their organizations, but giving their own perspective, both spoke in favor of full participation of girls in the Boy Scout program, especially from the perspective of girls wanting to do the things their brothers and fathers do together, but also including earning the Eagle rank and joining the OA. The National Chief’s perspective is that another person earning the Eagle rank, including a young woman, does not diminish his own accomplishment.
…

Some interesting results if you Google the phrase "Making Scouting Accessible for Families":

 

http://www.samoset.org/openrosters/ViewOrgPageLink.aspx?orgkey=1438&itemkey=14002- this one is open about its being about admitting girls into the BSA

Excellent detective work.

Considering how well National listened to those polled on Eagle Palms, I say the decision has been made already. Heck the writing has been on the wall for some time.

 

August 1 2018 we will be coed. If I'm off, then it will be before then.

I think some coed re-org decision will be made before the World Jambo in July, 2019.

Sounds like an invitation to a FOS presentation.

I think National realizes that scouts and their units are camping less for multiple reasons. The traditional weekend, two-night campout is devolving into the Saturday overnighter.  I suspect, Camping MB requirements will change, maybe count summer camp more say up to two weeks (two summers).

My $0.02,