RememberSchiff

Considering how well National listened to those polled on Eagle Palms, I say the decision has been made already. Heck the writing has been on the wall for some time.

 

August 1 2018 we will be coed. If I'm off, then it will be before then.

I think some coed re-org decision will be made before the World Jambo in July, 2019.

Sounds like an invitation to a FOS presentation.

I think National realizes that scouts and their units are camping less for multiple reasons. The traditional weekend, two-night campout is devolving into the Saturday overnighter.  I suspect, Camping MB requirements will change, maybe count summer camp more say up to two weeks (two summers).

My $0.02,

@@BurgeyBoi welcome to scouter.com

@@iamchuck welcome to scouter.com

Awards for having received awards, now with express checkout.

http://www.wmur.com/article/volunteers-help-clean-up-storm-damage-at-camp-carpenter-on-opening-day/10281290

Dozens in the Manchester (NH) community answered the call to help clean up Camp Carpenter  (Cub World) after a fast moving storm took down massive trees, just barely missing campsites, Saturday.

"It's pretty much like opening up a matchbox, it's just trees on top of trees," said volunteer Real Mongeau.

No one was hurt but it could have been a much different story had the storm happened Sunday, opening day when hundreds of  Cub Scouts and their families arrive for a week of camping.

"The damage was pretty significant, could've been a lot worse," said Chris Hopkins, Director of Support Services of the Daniel Webster Council. "They'll have plenty of firewood for building camp fires."

...

Recommend the video in above link - RS

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/california-wildfires-prompt-evacuations-amid-heat-wave-n781026

A wildfire tearing through western California on Sunday mostly destroyed a Boy Scouts camp, killing all of the animals in its nature center, authorities said.

The Outdoor School at Rancho Alegre, an outdoor residential education center that is home to the Los Padres Council of the Boy Scouts of America, said in a statement Sunday that it had "lost our dear animal friends in the nature center and many of the staff on site have lost most of their belongings."

All staff members were safely evacuated, but many lost most of their belongings, it said.

The Boy Scouts council said that "a number of structures" were destroyed and that it was working with other councils to keep its programs going.

From Los Padres Council website

http://www.lpcbsa.org/

Update:  Sunday, July 9, 11:10 am:  Here is a link to a photographer who was on site at Rancho Alegre.  The pictures are exclusively of our Scout camp by someone who had a childhood connection to the programs.

http://www.thenaturephotographer.com/outdoor-school-r-i-p/

@@MattR , I think you struck a chord.

Ooh, a geometry joke.  You can't get that on just any old Internet forum.

Plenty of circular arguments to go around.

Found this. though I found no mention of eating and swimming. The Swimmers' Life Saving Society, later called  Royal Life Saving Society, founded in 1891 in London influenced Scout swimming program.

A Social History of Swimming in England, 1800 – 1918: Splashing in the Serpentine

page 115: Swimming: Service to the Empire and Baden Powell's Youth Movements

The Royal Life Saving Society Handbook of Instruction published in 1936.

"The most suitable time to bathe is about two hours after a meal, when food taken previously will have become partially digested," it advises. "On no account bathe shortly after a hearty meal, when exhausted from vigorous exercise, when the body is cooling after perspiring nor, on the other hand, when shivering ..."

I am searching for earlier (non-Scout) safety instructions regarding eating before swimming. So far the source still remains us.

1908 Scouting for Boys

"First, there is the danger of cramp. If you bathe within an hour and a half after taking a meal, that is, before your food is digested, you are very likely to get cramp. Cramp doubles you up in extreme pain so that you cannot move your arms or legs — and down you go. You may drown — and it will be your own fault."

1911 Boy Scout Handbook

"Many boy swimmers make the mistake of going into the water too soon after eating. The stomach and digestive organs are busy preparing the food for the blood and body. Suddenly they are called upon to care for the work of the swimmer. The change is too quick for the organs, the process of digestion stops, congestion is apt to follow, and then paralyzing cramps."

On 31 May 1940, Sundowner was requisitioned by the Admiralty to sail to Dunkirk to assist in the evacuation. Lightoller, aged 66 and retired, volunteered to take her, along with his eldest son Roger, and Gerald Ashcroft, an 18-year-old Sea Scout.^[3]

Leaving Port of Ramsgate at 10:00^[3] on 1 June, the yacht crossed the Channel in company with five other ships. On their way, they rescued the crew of the motor cruiser Westerly, which had broken down and was on fire.^[1] On arrival at Dunkirk, Lightoller realized that the piers were too high, and so drew alongside the destroyer HMS Worcester and started to take on soldiers. Seventy-five men were crammed into the cabin, and another fifty-five on deck, a total of 130.^[2]Sundowner then returned to Ramsgate, avoiding fire from enemy aircraft through evasive manoeuvres on the way, though the greatest danger was being swamped by the wash from fast-moving destroyers. After disembarking the troops, she was preparing to return for France for another load, but by then only ships capable of doing 20 knots were allowed to continue.^[1]

Sundowner remained in service as a coastal patrol vessel in the River Blackwater, Essex. She then moved to the River Clyde under the control of 647 Transport Company, Royal Army Service Corps.^[2] She was released from service in 1945, and after a refit was returned to Lightoller in 1946, and once again used as a family boat.^[1]

^{https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sundowner_(yacht)}

June, 1940

" It can now be revealed that Sea Scouts played an important part in the epic of Dunkirk - A thrilling story is told by the Group Scout Master of Mortlake Sea Scouts."

Most people are aware of Operation Dynamo which evacuated the British Expeditionary Force of over 300,000 personnel from the beaches of Dunkirk in May and June 1940. Few would realize that Sea Scouts played their part amongst ‘the little ships of Dunkirk’ of saving the British Army from capture and allowing them to fight another day.

The following extract (link below - RS) was written by the Group Scout Master of the Mortlake Sea Scout Group which crewed the 45ft motor picket boat Minotaur during Operation Dynamo. The Scout Master is believed to be Mr Tom Towndrow and he received Admiralty orders on the night of 29 May to sail the Minotaur to a staging area in the Thames Estuary to wait further instructions by the Royal Navy.

http://www.scoutsrecords.org/explore.php?dil=&icerik=87&bparent=CB6FCCF1AB7A8F1765FC3A9D09C9ACAE&

http://history.scoutingradio.net/minotaur.htm

http://www.13wmaz.com/news/local/verify/verify-is-swimming-and-snacking-bad-for-you/454715281

Swimming and snacking was something most parents shunned when we were kids.

The thought was that one would receive horrible cramps if they went swimming right after a feast.

We traced the origins of the cramps story to a 1911 Boy Scouts handbook.

"Many boys make the mistake of going into the water too soon after eating," the handbook said.

The literature from over a century ago stated that paralyzing cramps would result from that practice.

Was that a fair diagnosis? First Coast News sought out some help in verifying this claim.

It turns out Duke University has a clear and extensive fact sheet on swimming and eating.

The guide stated extra blood does rush to your digestive system when you eat, but not enough to give you cramps. Your arms and legs will still work just fine.

A big sorry goes out to the Boys Scouts, as the 106-year-old theory is false.

I was somewhat surprised the BSA is being considered the source but maybe we are?

As a youth, Red Cross swimming  and lifesaving taught this.  In the manual below, there was a dramatic black and white photo of a swimmer sinking with stomach cramps.  We didn't believe that swimming or any exercise after a meal caused cramps. We felt a bad meal could cause cramps and you didn't want to be in the water if that happened.  So we waited after meals before swimming, still do.

What about this is high adventure?  It sounds more like an amusement park.

I feel the same about Summit.

Hmm, would that mean that the rank I ended up with would be "Nearly Eagle"?  Can I get half a knot for that?

So awarded 

Too much PC methinks. When I was a "Den Leader", I preferred to be called a "Den Mother" as I wore my mother's old patch (circa 1960). It annoyed some.

Up next, rename Second Class to ...

My $0.02,

Another variation is allowing only the OP to vote on the helpfulness of responses. Might help keep responses on topic, maybe...

Meanwhile, Terry receives a notification on his Scouter app of a record high red arrow count.  Oh it must be... what, one of my moderators..!    

A thought on changing an organization's name....

 

Even if a mission changes, I've never seen the benefit of tinkering with the organization's name.

 

I had a ring-side seat to this during my 30 years in the military.   Multiple name changes of units to reflect a senior leader's preference, or a slight mission addition, or a new combo of old units.  Or a desire to "church things up."

 

Intentions are good but a name change usually results in something bland that doesn't really capture the spirit of what the unit does.  Or the traditions. Then, for a variety of reasons, this blandness permeates the unit.  The same with changing signage, literature and other stuff to reflect a new mission.  The organization seems to lose something.

 

If the BSA goes coed, the worse thing it could do is make wholesale changes towards gender-neutral.  The girls that are already in the BSA, and the ones that will join, are drawn to the BSA because they like what this organization does.   They typically aren't hung up on the types of nuances we are discussing in this thread.   They want to hike and camp and be a part of a team.

 

Change it and no one will be pleased.

Boys Town (Father Flanagan, "He ain't heavy, he's my brother", outside of Omaha and other locations) admitted girls in 1979 and changed its name to Girls and Boys Town for a few years. The name reverted back to Boys Town even though their programs are for boys, girls, families. Sounds familiar.

I've seen it happen and a popular east coast (ish) camp. Facility renovations lead to one facility being out-of-service, so doubling up happened. Showers were missed, meals were missed and the mess hall was open until 10pm due to angry campers.

You miss a meal or activity here, short of a camp siren going off, you missed a meal or activity. Keeps things simple and camp schedule on track.

Ok, what is the official term for the subgroups in a Venturing Crew?

A mutiny? 

It's easy to be dismissive of this issue unless you've been a camp director. Try pushing 500 plus people of single sex through old, communal, inadequate facilities and stay on schedule for 7 weeks. Now try to do that with another two shifts (adult women, youth girls).

 

Ever wonder why program and dinner runs late at many camps? That's why.

In Northeast, neither program nor meals wait on showers.

-1 For Science.