Beavah

LOL. Yah, well, it seems like da lad has things well in hand, eh? I'd follow his lead. Sometimes we forget that da things that cause the most growth in kids aren't the smooth, well-run things, eh? They're the times when the lads face adversity and challenge and have to improvise. Just like the way the "epic" bad weather campout makes for da best stories (and bonding), workin' through hard discussions or a rebellion or two also makes for good stories and good learnin'. Yeh trained him, eh? Trust him and let him lead! Beavah

Yah, @@Krampus, I think we all have to decide at some point whether it's really important to beat our chests about bein' right on some point or another, eh? That's da "ego flu" Eagledad is talkin' about. Lots of times other folks are completely WRONG, and the best choice is to be supportive of them, eh? Because pickin' fights is wrong too. One of da interestin' things about airplane accidents that has been proven over the years is that by and large, pilots tend to blame the pilots for accidents and air traffic controllers tend to blame air traffic controllers. Rarely is anything th

Yah, no intention to be snarky, eh? Just offerin' a different perspective that yeh can feel free to reject. In terms of what happens to our kids, it doesn't matter who is responsible for burnin' bridges, eh? All da kids feel is the burnt bridge. Adults that are important in their lives are squabblin' and they're caught in the middle. Such squabbles always take two to tango, or one to strike da match and another to pour on the fuel. Da saddest cases are my colleagues who deal with divorce law, eh? But it applies to everywhere else we choose to get litigious about kids' lives.

Yah, hmmm... Nuthin' worse for units than adult conflicts, eh? I'd encourage yeh to reflect a bit on how you may be contributin' to the conflict. You're writin' a lot about "the naysayer", eh? If yeh adopt an attitude of conflict yourself, the boys and others will buy into it. Tryin' to work with folks, even naysayers, is da better lesson. In a troop, the adults all have to be pullin' together or they'll surely pull the kids apart. Where's the SM in all this? Often the SM is da fellow with da Vision for the troop, eh? The one who sets the tone. Maybe I'm talkin' t

If you define "negotiate" as reaching a non-binding agreement, no reason why you can't try having Scouts negotiate for lodging and campsites. It would be a good experience so long as they don,t get too bummed out if the adult on the other side changes his/her mind. Yah, I know several units where da Scouts handle all da reservations and negotiations. It's well within da abilities of high schoolers or loquacious middle schoolers. They make a deposit with da troop debit card or a scouter's card or by havin' da treasurer send a check. Never had an outfitter or other adult change their mi

Yah, it is! What I can't seem to convince the Powers that Be is that this is a bad thing, eh? They seem to have settled on a meme of "These things are not part of da BSA Scouting Program", and they keep addin' things to da lists. What they don't seem to get is that the more things we define as not part of the program the more folks will turn to alternatives and alternative programs, eh? If yeh keep definin' da BSA program as smaller and smaller, yeh keep gettin' a BSA that's smaller and smaller. Plus, along the way yeh teach people not to respect the "rules". Personally, I t

Yah, different cultures, eh? Scoutin' internationally tends to be entirely volunteer driven (very few professionals) and very youth run. Since Scoutin' is usually done in Groups (one troop for ages 5-26), yeh see a lot more Scouts runnin' programs for mini-Scouts (Cubs), Venturers leadin' activities for Scouts, Rovers servin' as primary adult leaders for younger program groups, etc. There may be an older 30- or 40- somethin' who is Group Leader coordinatin' the young adult volunteers and interfacin' with da parents, but it's not really a youth contact position. All da rest of the

Yah, this was predictable, eh? Litigation is an adversarial approach. When yeh come in to a meetin' with that attitude, you've set yourself on a course to create adversity. When you've chosen to create adversity with da Key 3 of the troop, I wouldn't really expect yeh to get anywhere with da troop. They represent the opinion of the majority of the parents and probably the chartered partner, and their role is to stand up for those folks and what they feel is right. They're the folks runnin' the program, and they'll continue to do what they feel is best for all the boys. That shouldn

Yah, what @@Eagledad said, eh? Workin' with lots of troops, yeh quickly give up da notion that there's One Right Way. Either that or yeh become a commissioner who's just an annoyin' pain in da kiester to all and sundry. Scoutin' is all about people. Young people, old people, ordinary folks. It's a game of patience and gentle nudges and gradual progress toward (hopefully) shared goals. Adults are learnin' as much or more than the boys along the trail, eh? Bein' a friend to da unit doesn't mean readin' to 'em from da Holy Guidebooks, it means listenin' to 'em and helpin' 'em find

A smart state should do one of two things, eh? Provide an excellent set of colleges and universities that attract kids from other states, and (if necessary) provide free or reduced tuition to strong students from other states. That way yeh steal their best kids, eh? Kids often stay in da states and communities where they went to school. That's why "university corridors" and such are economic engines, in part, and why property values in university towns rebounded lots faster than da rest of da country. Beavah

Yah, I'd say Venturing Crew if yeh have a good one around. That can be a big "if". I'd also encourage him to be a full-fledged ASM, eh? It's true in da U.S. that our habit has become to treat middle schoolers like they're 3rd graders and high schoolers like they're 6th graders and young adults like they're in 8th grade. In much of da rest of the world, day-to-day Scoutin' is run by the Rover-aged folks (under 26), with a few 30-somethings around as group leaders. Havin' an over-40 person in a youth contact role is kinda creepy. Still, I've seen lots of troops that use 18-yea

Nah, it isn't. In a pure capitalist model, only da families with capital get to send their kids to get an education. People only funding state schools is da old Soviet communist model. Yeh get only one choice, eh? Da choice da government provides. Kids are different, eh? They aren't one-size-fits-all. As a taxpayer, I want kids to have as much opportunity as possible, and I want 'em to have choice. I reckon it's a better use of my tax dollars if I send Joe the Budding Engineer off to Purdue than to Backwater State. More likely to grow the economy and make da nation strong

Yah, what @@Krampus said, eh! That's exactly right. As yeh go in to havin' the boys set up patrols of their own, yeh do need to give 'em some structure to work with. Some thoughts (hopefully others will add ideas): Patrols should be "permanent", eh? Patrol Method works best when it's Once a Beaver, Always a Beaver! Patrols should not "collapse" on outings, so make each patrol big enough that it won't be down to 1-2 guys on any outing. That keeps yeh away from "combining" patrols or other silliness. Keep 'em to four so they can hike independently. No patrols bigger than X.

Yah, taxpayers pay less and less for state schools, eh? That's why tuitions keep goin' up, and why state schools do their best to recruit out-of-state students and foreign students who pay da higher tuition rates. In-state students are heavily subsidized by out-of-state students because da taxpayers aren't doin' much anymore. Havin' only state schools, though, isn't really great for democracies. It's da socialist/Soviet model for education. Beavah

Yah, hmmm. I confess I don't quite understand statements like charity "at the point of a gun" and "stealing out of someone else's hard work" and all that. I fully admit that I'm a Christian sort of fellow and a Scouter, so I see helpin' other people and providin' opportunities for the young as a personal moral obligation. If yeh have a community where we've been successful as Scouters and Christians, then it seems pretty natural that a majority of da folks will be willing to vote to help other people and provide opportunities for the young. That's a victory, eh? We taught folks

Hiya @@doakley, and welcome! Yah, sure, I've seen that sort of practice, eh? It tends to be more common in Patrol Method troops that are more active. I don't know where yeh are in your "reading everything", but one of da hardest things for us adults to get our heads around is Patrol Method. It's always easier for us to imagine that da SPL is the Man In Charge Who Runs Everything, and then da SM just coaches him. That's troop method, and while yeh can do it, it's not the best sort of Scouting. In Scoutin' we use Patrol Method to break boys up into smaller groups where they hav

Nah, one is pointin' a toy at another person. There's a difference, eh?

Negotiate prices for whatever, eh? Lots of times when units go places as a group yeh can negotiate group rates or whatnot. Have a troop where da ASPL did that this winter for a cabin/lodge for a combined skiing / snow outing, for example. Reservations for whatever, eh? Campsites, events, lodgin'. And yah, sure, sometimes da grocer will negotiate too, eh? I've had OA lads do that with local grocers for service events. Why take those things away from the boys? Both are skills a lot of lads need when it comes time for Eagle projects. On da flipside, though, we do mak

Yah, I reckon if us older folks expect that da young people are goin' to keep payin' for our Social Security and Medicare, and keep workin' to fund our pensions and such, and are goin' to defend our country against cyber attacks and real ones, we'd better invest in their education, eh? Makin' young people stronger and givin' 'em opportunity is one of da best things we can do for the nation. Investin' in older folks is largely wasted resource economically. After all, we're all out here givin' young people our time for free, eh? In fact, I expect all of us are payin' pretty heavily f

Yah, I always understood fire's ability to travel up-slope, eh? I always wondered how da fires made it downhill, though, especially with a decent-sized rockpile or cliff. Figured it was sparks. Then at one point a fast-moving fire got a bit too close as we were retreatin'. Not a scout trip, just a few friends. Fire was on a ridge above about a 200 foot cliff; we were down below retreatin' down toward the river. The fire was throwin' burning trees over the cliff that were rollin' down the slope settin' other things on fire. Full burning trees! Absolutely terrifyin' and awe-inspirin

Yah, sometimes this is really the case, eh? If you're startin' a new troop with a bunch of 10 year olds, then it's really silly if yeh think the lads are goin' to right off the bat be makin' outing plans from scratch, callin' to negotiate prices and make reservations, plan safety and food and instructional activities and all da rest on their own. So yeh figure out what's reasonable for them to do with some coaching, and yeh handle the rest. As they grow, yeh quietly fade and shift more of da challenge on to them, eh? Success in small things gives 'em da practice and confidenc

Yah, hmmm... There are lots of reasons why market capitalism works better than lots of other systems, eh? But it's a mistake to not recognize that it also has its problems and creates some problems, too. In order to keep it workin' yeh need to address those problems. One of da problems is that market capitalism relies on some measure of honor and ethics on da part of employers, eh? Takin' care of their workers, paying a just and living wage, helpin' good people advance and such. If yeh have employers who honestly view their role as takin' care of their workers and not just ma

But scouts that haven't seen it done right before won't suddenly start doing it. More than just that, eh? Troops run downhill over time. Older boys move on, adults turn over, da focus becomes just gettin' the next thing done rather than embracin' a vision. The tree of Patrol Method and Youth Leadership and Values must be periodically refreshed by da blood, sweat, and tears of Scoutmasters. And sometimes of great PLs and SPLs. If yeh go back and read ol' Green Bar Bill's stuff, there's a lot about how Patrol Leader Training is an ongoing thing, eh? More along da lines of a s

Yah, hmmm.... Yeh have one month, da PLC has its meeting plans, yeh don't even know if the lad will show up? Sometimes yeh just have to live with your mistakes, eh? Have a conference with the young man, and explain what happened, how it wasn't fair to da other scouts or to him, how you messed up. Then talk to him a bit about honor, eh? How sometimes some folks wear military honors on their uniform that they haven't really earned, or pretend to be former Navy SEALS when they never did BUDS. Point him to "Stolen Valor" on the internet. Then leave it up to the lad whether he c

Yah, way longer than that, eh? Do yeh remember @@Oak Tree's old canonical summary of that argument from years ago? http://scouter.com/index.php/topic/23260-rules-shmules/page-3 Where is da Oak Tree anyway? Or lots of da rest of da old critters? Seems like Scouter.Com is down to just a few folks. Beavah