qwazse

I think the answer depends on the number coming down which pipe ...

If your local cubmaster says all 14 of his tigers from 5 years ago stuck with it and want to cross over into your troop, I would call a neighboring troop and ask if they could try to recruit some of these boys. Remember past performance does not predict future results, so these boys may be ready go separate ways once they see their options.

If a half-dozen boys in the jr. high decide they want to be in scouting, I'd talk to your best ASM and MC, along with JASMs and SPL, and see if they want to start a new troop. Find a worthy CO, transfer three of your best youth to it, and sign up half of the newbees to your troop (now that you have a few openings) and half to the upstart. I think that's the history of how my childhood troop started.

In other words, we are building the equivalent of AP Hill from scratch.

My bet is right now The Summit couldn't even support 3000 people let alone 30,000.

Do we need Jambo? Do we need another HA camp? Demand seems to indicate so.

Could we do without both? The majority of scouts do.

1. Nap Nap Nap - If I'm "on" as crew advisor, I know I won't be settled until 1 AM. Therefore, tell my other drivers to get shut-eye. My hammock is for that afternoon nap, or even 1/2 hour before we pull out. If work needs done, that's what youth are for. On the road, if I gotta pull over for 10-20 minutes, so be it.

2. Who's riding shotgun? You'd better be able to talk and you'd better have something worth listening to on the iPhone thingy. If I hear a cussword coming over my speakers, they gotta switch tunes/channel or they'll hear from me. Holding the line on the 11'th point also helps keep me awake.

Limiting the numbers isn't the solution. Fact is, we need a lot more units.

My crew has 42 on the roster. My jaw will drop if I see more than 8 at tonight's meeting. Main problem: we are so "general interest" that few will make the meeting/prep part of the program a priority.

Now if we were three crews: with an advisor for shooting sports, one for skiing/aquatics, one for backpacking, I bet we could split off and triple our numbers no problem.

Granted the dynamics for 14 - 20 year olds are different than 11 - 18. But, unless all 180 kids knocking at your door are from single parents, there should be enough leadership (and dissention?) to spin off a new unit.

But, you need a CO that really wants to house that program over a long haul. Otherwise, like Beevah said in the other thread, it'll fizzle.

A cleaver, lightweight, and permanent tag that folks from a neighboring troop did:

Give a seamstress a spent uni. shirt and have her cut it into rectangular patches and embrioder the members' names on each. For an additional fee, she'd even sew it on your uniform.

I'm looking into it for myself. Problem is all my uni's are vintage ...

Troop shoots for 12 overnight events, averages 8. There's a little bit of "have to do's" (fundraisers, scout Sunday's) that come into play.

Also, our crew tries to schedule its outings on weekends different than the troop. For the crew, I've been shooting for 4 and averaging 6 overnight events/year. Every couple of years we toss in a high adventure.

Also, the OA chapter sports a couple of nifty events.

So older boys have a chance to get out a lot more.

Youth participation is usually the determining factor. Although, given the increasing paperwork load to register as an adult. Leadership availability may soon come into play.

"I promise to never treat you like you're a girl scout." (After a youth figures out that no adult in the troop or crew is starting fire / making breakfast / orienting the map for them.)

Or ...

"I'm your good-for-nothing advisor. Best use me that way." After youth finally step up and make a better plan than the one I laid out.

We have attrition because ...

1. Although we've gained reputation for lots of Eagles coming out of the program, we are no Eagle mill. (Yep, they all work for it.)

2. Boy led, small space, when the numbers get too large, some kids feel left out. (That's what the parents tell us.)

3. Other troops close by.

4. School provides plenty of activities.

But,

1. the boys in the troop recruit their friends/younger siblings/etc ...

2. feeder pack helps but it is not a foregone conclusion.

3. did I say the boys recruit their friends?

So it all sort of evens out.

Education is not something you get it's something you take.

In other words: always expect your professor to be inept at communicating or your school to slack. Be happy for the ones where the "connection" is made in the classroom. For the others, dig the book on your own. Meet them for office hours. Hold a study group. Maybe even look for a different school that offers a more challenging program. Whatever.

So, are there a lot of kids in college who are sitting around expecting to "get" educated? Yep. Hopefully not as many as were in high school. The only question is: are you among those that are going to "take" whatever your educators have to offer? If you're not, there's no harm in working for a living until your ready to "assault the the bastions of academia, breach the threshold, and rob from them knowledge." (Yes, my scouts do give me funny looks.)

Regarding textbooks, by the time I started taking upper level classes, I stopped buying books for the first day of class. After listening to a few lectures I would go a week later and get the ones really being referenced, find out which upper classmen took the course, buy used, etc ...

SanDiegoScouting - Jump the gun a little? Hold off on scoutmaster conferences for Tenderfoot and Second class until the boy crosses over with his buddies. Ask if a representative or two from the troop you "joined" can come to the crossover ceremony.

If the troop paperwork hasn't been pushed, don't ask it to be. Otherwise, just let your boy be a guest in his former den -- if he wants -- until February. Technically, a youth can't be dual registered in a Pack and a Troop, so your registration should be a transfer. But, if the pack will let the boy be a cub when he's at mom's, don't sweat the details.

If on the other hand, the boy wants to change epaulets and show the rank he earned, he can ask for an earlier cross-over ceremony. This can happen at a den or pack meeting. It may inspire an "on-the-fence" Webelo to get on the stick and wrap up his requirements.

This is a big transition -- to your son it may be as big as the Grand Canyon. Give it due honor. I'm sure his mom would appreciate a formal ceremony.

Also, maybe in terms of troop activities, you could suggest a few in locations close to where Mom lives -- give her a chance to see her boys troop in action.(This message has been edited by qwazse)

This is sweet. MyScouting is sending me and my CC mean E-mails saying we're not trained! Even though I can go online and confirm YPT training that was done in September! Council will be back to checking these all manually!

When early scouts stood in formation all the patrols stood in rank, meaning that if there were 8 patrols there would be 8 ranks. The PL's stood in the first file of each rank with the patrol flag. Today everyone stands in single file line behind the SPL and salutes the back of the head of the boy in front.

I have never seen the "single file" formation. Our boys, and every other troop I know stands in rank at flags. The venturers always look a little confuzzled, but that's because they don't come off the trail enough to practice parade formation.

My crew does not have an Advancement Chair. (Okay, it would be technically a Regognition chair, but I'm making a point.) Guess how many awards I've given out in 4 years? None zip zero null. Partly that's because the kids tell me it doesn't matter, but partly it's because my committee has yet to pull together and divy up responsibilities.

The good news is that my co-advisor and I don't have anyone telling us how to do our job. We don't need fundraisers to pay for medals, etc ....

Not sure if that's a zero sum, because although the independence has allowed me to stay productive as an advisor and kids keep coming through the door, I'm missing seeing my presidents dole out some bling.

So be it at our COH or at a committee meeting - if we ever have one, I'll lift my mug to the advancement chair.

My apathy towards laser tag and paintball runs pretty high. (I take more pleasure in watching a diminuitive girl in my crew toss a belligerent guy into 3 feet of snow on a night hike.)

But, has anybody here who really cares tried to strike the "laser tag" rule from the the G2SS? What would the process of amending it be?

I know amendments happen because someone last year changed the age/grade requirements for venturing.

I gave my personal take in the other thread, but the bottom line ...

Benchmark, Excersize Daily, See Results

That's what we're trying to get into the boys (and often, parents) heads.

Injuries. Sports has a higher rate than scouts.

In fact one year a b-ball coach warned some girls to not go on a backpacking trip because he needed their ankles for the game next week. I told them to tell the coach their joints would fare better in 36 hours with me than in 1 hour with him.

I do try to make it a "both-and" with the youth, but there are a lot of folks - parents included - who make it an "either-or".

O.K. Kudu, I'm changing my answer to yours. All that being said, I am against laser tag because it is an expensive indoor game in a confined space.

And the next time a youth asks me, I'm plagarizing you ...

Scouts should to pretend to kill each other as Baden-Powell and the BSA's Bill Hillcourt intended.

Like my daughter said at the end of a day backpacking with our crew/troop: "You aren't going to get a conversation about improvised explosive devices sitting around a girl scout campfire."

Thanks for letting the boys inspire you.

Something I do, since the boys in our troop all have some sort of Christian affiliation, is keep a New Testament and Psalms handy in my pack. (I just got a waterproof one which mysteriously disappeared -- back to the zip-locks!) In advance of the trip I tell the chaplain's aide to think of a verse or a Psalm he would like to be read on Sunday morning. Before we set out after breaking camp, I encourage the boys to circle up and take time for reflection. One boy reads the verse, maybe there's a song, another says a prayer, we go.

It sounds simple, but I think it's quite effective in setting the tone for the rest of the trip. It's enough church for the boys who like church, and it's just different enough from church for the boys who have a hard time sitting still in pews. Plus it helps the aide learn how to be prepared for this sort of thing without having to be wired into a bunch of resources.

gotta run: bless your missus. When your daughter's 14, can she join my crew? Most of my GS don't want to be out of reach of a curling iron. It's been the non-GS that have been willing to throw on the backpack to enjoy the trail. The blame falls squarely on the folks.

Just a suggestion: don't judge a woodbadger by how pompous he/she may be to you. Judge by how much the boys love him/her.

Since WB doesn't fit all categories, and we have testimony that it doesn't fit many of them in most councils, we can conclude "not cult." Although the lack of real wood was a bit of a disappointment.

GR: I gotta say "all the stuffed animals and irrelevant crap" compensated for the fact I had no time to get a pumpkin for this weekend. Crow ornaments were all over the porch. Not sure if they'll be allowed on the tree in December though.

Although my experience was largely positive, I'm glad I waited a few years to take the course. It gave me a backdrop to adjust expectations.

BD: The prisoner's dilema is intended to strip down to "bare bones" the shame that could be induced in society -- cult or otherwise. I had studied game theory as a hobby years before, so it wasn't as emotionally charged for me. However, it did give me pause.

Regarding stealing totems, our SM actually made it clear in not so many words that he would frown upon it. I can see how that one behavior would sour me on the course ... Lesson to WB'ers: how you comport yourselves while on staff or as a student will help a scouter answer the question "Will I really want to volunteer with these folks for the next __ years?" Do your best to make that answer be affirmative.

On the other hand, I now have five goals and a deadline to complete them. Being a guy who kinda "goes with the flow", it's nice to have some concrete benchmarks. Also, when I do make goals, they tend to be a little "high minded" so it was nice to have someone help me hone them down to things that could be achieved in my position as Crew Advisor in the next 18 months.

Because our boys and girls will have opportunity soon enough to hurl photon's and other more substantial projectiles at determined enemies, there's no need to hasten the process.

In the meantime, they can use their hands to tag an opponent and capture their flag. Baden Powell's point was that THOSE were the skills (getting close to your opponent, learning his movements, his thoughts) a boy should be learning.

So, we focus on making sure the kids can handle arms day in and day out -- targeting, cleaning, building ... because we think and understanding of the mechanics of the thing is what better builds character.

Let the church youth group take the kids to laser tag. We don't need to be all things to all people.

I swear by Suunto's brands. The needle settles FAST. That means one less thing to wait around for and a little less stress as you read the fine print.

The magnifying glass is a good suggestion.

Alternatively, you might want to consider a military/surveyors' compass. It has a magnifying glass for reading the bearing on the opposite end of the housing while sighting your target through a crosshair. The only problem is you need to carry a protractor to get your bearing off the map.

Gern, you didn't say "science", "politics", or "fantasy football", ergo your bias was revealed.

I guess my selection of alternatives revails my biases, but oh well ...

But to charge adults dues on top of the BSA registration, and their personal time and money spent, just seems downright greedy to me.

The dues for adults are a couple bucks over registration+unit insurance. My understanding is that it covers some of the SM's discretionary costs. (E.g. a kid can't afford a fee and we don't want to make it a line-item, or one ASM is truly cash strapped and we have to cover his fee for a year, or some bone-head up an earns himself an award we have to pay for, whatever.)

The treasurer's reports look rock-solid and well audited, so we don't worry about the extra fee. We all know there are plenty of troops that don't charge it, complainers are welcome to go there. Moreover if the college boys really need to save for dates at the coffee shop, they can always be primary with the crew at registration+insurance.

Fact is, I have a couple dual-registered under-21 ASM's who are primary with the troop, but I don't have any who are primary with the crew. So I guess we'll remain "downright greedy" as long as the only grievances are from guys in chat rooms. !)

Meeting space. Make sure your CO is aware that things might be a little noisy when you meet.