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qwazse

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Posts posted by qwazse

  1. MT: And teach[ing] becomes like others stated, maybe no more than the scout who is the teacher doing the skill while others watch.

     

    And the problem with that is???? Well let me think about what could be wrong with a scout A just doing a skill while scout B watches

    Scout B imitates. Skill is learned

    Scout B says "what did you just do?" Scout A says "read the handbook". Scout B reads and learns.

    Scout B says "why are you doing that?" Scout A says "read the handbook". Scout B reads and learns.

    Knowing that he has a boy's attention, Scout A explains "I want to anchor these poles together to make a catapult to launch my water bottle into SM Kudu's tent 300 feet away, wanna help?" Scout B forgoes the handbook, probably doesn't learn as much, but can practice lashings until SM Kudu's nap is interruped by water bottles hitting his tent.

     

     

    MT: You need to give reference to something where the adults know that the scouts need to have some form of guiding the other scout(s) until they are able to do it for themselves.

    Give the scouts TIME and a Handbook. If it's a task that matters, if it requires the help of others, they will learn pretty quick the best way to teach it. (And it may or may not be EDGE.)

     

    MT: And that they know what is expected in order to get signed off on the requirement. I bet SM Kudu will sign off something for those boys if they assemble a machine to deliver from 100 yards out!

  2. Half a tick and we'll welcome you to the dark side, Bevah!

     

    To be fair, our SM gave the boys EDGE instruction at the last meeting, and I think they are no worse for the wear. The 'task to learn' was folding paper airlplanes. Since that's not so far off from tarp engineering I let it slide. (To avoid ruining his hard work with my negativity, I took the parents to another room and discussed the patrol method.)

     

     

  3. Let's sound off, #1's! Sorry BPT - but your gauntlet is irresistable:

     

    Prior to the dreaded EDGE requirements, we didn't teach them how to teach. ... Can you think of a better and simpler way to teach them how to teach? Please share. EDGE is intentionally simple.

     

    "Do Show and Tell" - jblake, you're a genious!!! Market that baby now! Three verbs make it simpler. Kindergarden vocabulary. It even sounds more fun. It CAN BE TRANSLATED INTO OTHER LANGUAGES AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT MESSING UP THE ACRONYM.

     

    Or as I taught troop guides:

     

    Have them read The Handbook,

    Do what they just read in The Handbook

    Help them do what they just read from The Handbook.

    Have them do what they just read and saw, preferably before someone else who can sign off in the Handbook.

     

    This is better than EDGE for two reasons

    1. It is easier to remember actions than acronyms. If you teach this way, your boys will teach this way.

    2. It adds one thing that EDGE does not. THE HANDBOOK. Any scholarly endeavor that's worth it's salt is referential. It gives the learner a place to go that does not depend on the teacher. (Yeah, you could say that's implyied in "explain" but every time I've seen EDGE demonstrated -- including WB 21st -- I have not seen them pick up a handbook of any sort.)

     

    If a boy uses either of these two SUPERIOR teaching methods and can't remember EDGE, I'm signing their book!

     

    My point is, EDGE is superfluous. Telling a boy to teach is superfluous. Instead tell him to help his patrol get ready to hike and camping. PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF YOUR TROOP don't even require a boy to invite another scout to join your troop if there's a chance the kids first meeting will be a lesson on EDGE!

  4. As always, this depends on the leadership structure of the crew. It's a rare night that I can get all of my officers in the same room at the same time! If roundtable night would work best for them I'd encourage it. (It wouldn't, so I don't.)

     

    Likewise, we attempt to meet twice a month, but from August - November that's also an impossiblity (durn championship athletes who also make great officers). The best we can do is offer one "meeting" and one "social" activity (campfire, kayaking afternoon, service project) each month.

     

    So, leverage the situation as best you can. Drop in on the youth for a minute and say "Hi." Let them know they have the privelage of immediate access to dozen's of scouters and encourage a couple of them to take a rotation sitting in on roundtable each month! Obviously if you have a district Venturing Roundtable, delegate it to those youth.

     

    If this is in fact a situation of convienence for the crew advisor, and the youth really don't want to be bumping against all those adults, they'll get him to change the date pretty quick.

     

  5. Disadvantage of troop-owned tents. When a boy goes off to college and has a ton of other expenses, he won't have a tent! But, enough about my sad story.

     

    I can imagine it would be really hard for a troop to move from one method of ownership to a different method. Chalk this up to a learning experience for the boys. Let them know the troop's current situation, let them know how other troops aproach the same problem, let them know you need to make a decision that may affect how the troop runs for the next 50 years, have them decide. Hold them to it.

     

    If they decide on individual tents, sell off the servicible ones. (Maybe you want to hold on to 2 or 3 for demonstration purposes.) If they decide the like the whole uniform tent gig, put together a maintenance plan like some of the above and have the boys work it.

  6. One thing that worked very well with my boys' dens, and I think it would work with yours, was each parent took a turn leading an activity.

     

    You simply help the boys with opening (flags, pledge of allegiance, etc...), introduce the presenter for the meeting (Mr/Mrs X will show us activity Y), you sit with your boy (or in the back with the other parents, depending on the nature of activity Y) and then help with closing.

     

    Advantages:

    You get more chances to work with your child. (Or sit back and watch him!)

    It may encourage your ADL to step up to DL, knowing that she can count on parents to support her efforts -- both in terms of being there and co-leading.

    The boys get ready for a troop model where they pick up different skills from different people.

  7. And, if you like working with youth, but want to take a "step away" from your son's grade, consider Merit Badge Counselor. Your proffession and hobbies probably mesh with a couple of MBs the boys would like to or need to earn. You could offer to the SPL to give a hands-on demonstration at a troop meeting, and who knows? He may just take you up on it.

     

    The best part, you can still keep the AWDL patch for as long as you're needed there!

  8. Gern,

     

    I'd chalk your crew up under the "success" column.

    Let's hope a youth comes up to you and says "I'm ready to make this work." From experience, you can warn him/her of the negative synergism that "we'll get back to you" injects into the group. But you can promise match whatever effort he/she puts into the program with your enthusiasm for scouting.

     

    Meanwhile, you've not wasted your time hearding HS kids who want to be spoon fed.

     

    Case in point: the youth my crew who pushed to organize a Seabase trip are not the same as the ones who actually are going. (Their friends didn't sign up, no money, would rather buy a new guitar, etc ...) So, it seems like I have one crew thats fading and another that's rising from it.

     

    It may wrankle a few committee members, maybe even a DE and UC that always want numbers to go up every year. But I'm a lot happier knowing I have youth who want to be there and who I admire.

  9. I think it's a fine HS program.

    Some SM's are only MS leaders.

     

    Example: On an area event, a 6th grader was feeling homesick as dark set in. Technically, I was their as Crew Advisor not ASM, but you all know about the "many hats" thing. He knew me best, so he approached me with the "I want to call my mom." speach. His 8th grade buddy who recruited him was nowhere to be found. (Like I said -- area event -- lots of chaos.) One of my Crew's chaperons wanted to help but I kept her at a distance. Instead I found the HS age boys in the troop and laid out the problem to them and let them come up with some solutions to help make this lil' guy feel comfortable ...

    I'll spare you further details (e.g. aprising SM, talk to Mom on speaker, the boys cooking soup, etc...) but the kid stayed the night and woke the next morning ready to enjoy the rest of the outdoor weekend.

     

    Conclusion: this is one of the best programs to offer a HS boy a lasting sense of importance in his community. But only if you ask the HS boy to help you with the MS problems!

  10. Regardless of requirement "toughness" - the best way to keep 16 & 17 yr olds in the program is to keep out 10 - 12 year olds. Boy Scouts has kept lowering the age level at the bottom end but not the top. I don't care what they are doing, but being 17 and in a program that contains 10, 11 and 12 year olds can be frustrating. - acco40

     

    Yeah, I saw that troop of "over 15"'s every year at summer camp. It just kept getting smaller and smaller and smaller ...

     

    Meanwhile, when my crew started, none (that's zero, nada, nix, nill) of the boys who were also in a troop left it. They didn't start attending crew meetings more and troop meetings less. In recent years, only half of the 14+ year-olds in our "sister" troop responded to invites to join our crew. (One did so reluctantly because he wants to go on a Seabase trip we're planning.) And the troop has A SWARM of little'ns! They can be frustrating, but I don't see them keeeping older boys away. In fact the only practical difference between the crew and the troop is that the troop has more frequent meetings and younger boys are present.

     

    Therefore, I must conclude that the reason many boys are uniquely attracted to the troop is a) they like a weekly routine, b) they like the privelage of be mentoring, c) the want a break from the girls they see in school all day, and d) they don't love paperwork like a real Boy Scout should so the youth application gets lost.

     

     

  11. Some perspective here ...

     

    Scouting is a little like church. Every now and then someone pulls off a great revival. Folks say, "Let's have this mountain top experience all the time." Then the Almighty says, "Um, how about you get off this mountain and go into all the world ..." In scouting, we think we need super active scouts with the whole HS age troop doing high adventure or Jambo every 24 months, assuming that'll keep them engaged. Rubbish!!!

     

    Yes we must have boys count the cost, but that cost should be: a weekly meeting, maybe a monthly meeting if you're in leadership, a campout or two every month. The reward: you learn values that make you a better musician/linebacker/striker/mechanic.

     

    In my opinion, not only can a scout do band and sports. He must do band and sports or OA or some other time intensive community activity tailored to his interest. That's the only way in which he can work out the values he picked up on the scouting trail. For example, any fool can seem clean if a scouter is within earshot to call him on cussing, it's in the locker-room or soundproof band room that he'll find out if he's falling short on the 12 point of the scout law.

     

    And no, helping younger boys qualify to take their patrols hiking and camping is NOT a middle school activity. It demands something that seems to come along after that Hebrew age of acountability. IMHO that something seems to come out the best when a youth has focused activities for 10+ hours a week to compliment his 1+ hour a week scouting experience.

     

    So you got this 15 y.o. eagle whose done 2 high adventures + Jambo? What do you have to offer? One thing that I have seen very few bands/teams offer: about 4 SPL/PL's who will have his undying respect if in the following year he spares about 50 of his precious hours mentoring them and the diverse youth under them.

     

     

  12. Some groups demand a large minimum amount of time by their very nature. Quality comes from practice.

     

    Scouting demands 1 hour a week minimum (roughly). But, if you only put that in, you can't expect much in terms of advancement. What we count on is that boys will look around and see other boys putting in more time, and eventually on average you get many times the minimum put it.

     

    In terms of outright demanding it, to be in a troop -- don't waste your breath. But, once this troop decides what they want to do ...

     

    If you have kids that want to camp locally every month, you can get by with 8 boys making a 1 hour a week committment.

     

    If they want to tap a high adventure base -- hello! Everyone needs to be proficient. Fundraise forever, welcome to the hike a month club, etc ...

     

    Plan their own high adventure? The minimum becomes much more like any team sport. You gotta be sure you trust your fellow scouts before you hop on that bus with them. You'd better have conditioned just like you were in a competitive team activity.

     

    If some of your boys are in band or on a sports team, it actually helps. They understand that certain situations demand more committment. It's that boy-led thing again. They get the vision, they'll do the demandin.

  13. Make sure the troop that you move to honors your son's POR. This is especially important if he hasn't made rank in a while. From other threads here, I know that SM's can be suspicious about that kind of stuff.

     

    You might not want to be too quick to judge the calendar thing. I sometimes put unconfirmed troop events on our crew's calendar so that if whoever plans to do something, we don't intentionally pick a date where half the boys are committed to doing something with the troop. The VP Program might simply be trying to help keep Dad and the dual-registered boys organized.

     

    Of course, if two units are operating that closely, my knee-jerk is that they share one calendar! Or more specifically, they share the same web page, but each group has a person responsible for posting their respective events.

     

    Regardless, your sons aren't seeing any significant activies in the troop's future. Either there are no events, or they aren't being communicated. (Tough to tell when your aren't CC anymore, eh?) That's as good a reason as any to leave. Your youngest son may be swayed if he sees another troop with solid plans in the works. On the other hand, being in a different troop from big brother has a lot of appeal! Brace yourself.

  14. ... When our committee put in the rule of Leaders having the full training of a SM within a year of registration or they are denied going on events, it was not something the committee came up with on a whim. The SM at that time came to the committee and asked that they put this rule in place and enforce it. ... - MT

     

    Which comes to my rule (stated before, but I'll repeat it in bold): Never ask someone for a rule. They might just make one for you!

     

    God bless those committee members who protect their SMs and Advisors from their own stupidity and don't make rules they ask for but don't need!

  15. Agreed. It's not ability to sign off on any advancement. It's that they've demonstrated the skills needed to plan and implement a fun and safe hike or campout.

     

    They still need to show their plan to the SM. It must follow the GSS, local regs, etc ...

  16. My SM was a church organist, so no complaints about band. My HS weekly routine:

     

    5:30AM - hit the alarm. dress. breakfast.

    6AM - Practice piano for an hour except,

    6:30 AM - invite the paperboy in to chat, sometimes run the rest of his route with him.

    7AM - Study what I blew off the night before, pack lunch, get bus.

    8 - 3 - School, which included a period of band (marching or stage depending on season) and practice during study hall if you had one.

    3-5 - Practice band or a game (no lights at our field). On off days, chores around house.

    6 - Dinner with mom and dad.

    7pm - Scouts/Jazz Band Practice/Section Practice/Youth Group/Pack for a camp-out or retreat/ depending on the day.

    9pm - Procrastinate on doing homework while watching TV with the folks. Maybe practice the horn -- especially if a fellow trombonist was after my chair.

    10/11 - Wash up. Read Bible (10 Chapters). Pray. Lights out.

     

    Oh, I lead section practice sometimes at my house without adults present. Same thing at school. The brass section would only call in the director if we were stuck on something. Same with jazz ensemble. So, my band was youth led as well. It helped prepare me for PL/SPL responsibilities.

  17. This is a stupid requirement.

    If a boy isn't bragging about what he did with his troop or what his troop or crew is doing next year, his troop stinks. Inviting even one boy to a stinky troop does no favors to Scouting.

    I know boys in my troop who have brought in two or three other boys before the knew about the requirement or after they already achieved 1st class, that means they've probably invited dozens more. Heck, our crew exists because boys wouldn't stop talking about going to Seabase to the girls at their lunch table.

     

    P.S. - We don't dole out recruiter strips either. If a kid asks for one we'd let him/her get it. That hasn't happened in years.

  18. True confession (and hopefully this brings us back to training), we ASMs in the troop and my SM will sign off on any boy who cannot decipher the acronym EDGE but can tell us what he does to get Johnny to start a fire. They pass if they say:

    - "Learn Do Teach"

    - "I did it. Then he did it."

    - "I let him watch the other patrol who's good at lighting fires"

    - "We read the handbook togther"

    - "I dunno, I just used up your matches till he figured it out"

     

    I don't want a boy to know the latest fad in pedagodgy. I want him to know that he has it in him to hand down a skill to someone else.

     

    I then apologise to the boy that I can't remember the acronym, but if he keeps doing what he's doing (with fewer of my matches), we'll be fine.

  19. E92: We must be in parallel universes. I love when my wife comes as a chaperon, but it also means hauling the 6-man instead of my backpacking "coffin practice" tent.

     

    GM: We run a co-ed unit, and the Mrs. can't backpack. So bunking too close to my chaperon might raise other "'semblance of evil" issues. Beside's I tend to be more like TB and just follow the rule and not overthink the issue. Fact is, predatory behavior works around tenting configuration and the best strategy is to keep the youth together and adults at a distance -- however the land allows it.

     

    Regarding applying this in a co-ed venturing situation. I really don't specify how to cluster. But, I haven't had young men asking to pitch right beside young womens' tents. They tend to naturally set up on opposite sides of the adults from each other.

  20. Most conservancy lands and hiking trails leave that sort of room if they allow overnight camping at all. Even farmer's lots are big enough for the adults to camp at a distance from the boys.

     

    For the sake of "leave no trace" I encourage my youth to camp in random clusters. Rows and grids leave footprints that can show up on arial photographs days after camp is broken.

     

    So, the adults would be in one "cluster", the youth would be in another cluster (or clusters, if there are more than one) further down the trail/valley/tree break. My personal preference is to pitch my tent up hill from the youth so I can see all clusters. My other chaperon sets up on the opposite side of the valley (if it's not more than 200 yards wide).

     

    This is the ideal. Obviously, we adjust accordingly for each site.

  21. Sounds like you need to become a crew advisor just to balance it all out! (jk)

     

    There will come a point where one of your units could benefit from one of those trained leaders stepping to the fore. They've seen your example, give them a chance to follow it in a year or so.

     

    This situation is not unique to urban areas. We all wind up wearing multiple hats. The challenge is to make sure they are the ones that suit our gifts and talents.

     

    I don't like "Eagle mills", but the notion of "Scouter mills" appeals to me.

  22. Folks, here's the bottom line: If you do not provide for patrols to plan and execute their own hikes and campouts with your approval, they WILL do it without your approval. And when they do, they will likely invite girls along, and someone will bring beer and smokes. In the process, they will "dumb down" their outdoor experience to the lowest physical and moral denominator.

     

    They will do this outside of Scouting, and some (maybe all) of them will decide they don't need your troop anymore. Some others will take a trip that is well beyond what they can handle, and they will put themselves and their friends in harms way because they did not get that "third eye" to review and approve their plan.

     

    So remind your CM's that the alternative to a well-planned independent youth outing is not a well-planned adult supervised outing. It is a poorly planned outing that may put the youth in your community at serious risk.

  23. The boy I'm dealing with falls in the "obvious, if you just look at him" category, but the council advancement committee doesn't review these things with the kid in front of them. Thus, the doctor's note. Remember: Boy Scouts love paperwork!

     

    In the same vein, looking at this kid, you'd wonder if he could survive a mile hike. It may take an hour. But the kid is tough. Regardless, the advancement committee doesn't see the kid, so they demand proof that you've thought this thing through.

     

    We will work on the rescue requirements, because even if you can't handle the equipment, you can coach someone who can.

  24. 'But if they called these "Area Venturing Summits" I think that would distinguish them from "The Summit", etc.'

     

    Problem is The Area Summit winds up being redacted to "the Summit."

     

    I like "Encampment", but I'll go with whatever the youth decide to call it. Actually, "Insomniacs Revenge" defines nearly every Venturing activity!!!

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