perdidochas

17 hours ago, 5thGenTexan said:

Any other info on this?   I am not sure how its the fault of the BSA that a Scout did something stupid with something he bought at an event.  I understand the BSA has deeper pockets than an individual Scout.

 

https://www.apnews.com/3ea0abd816fd439fbdfa0be7afc79484

Well, about 8 years ago or so, I was at a local OA sponsored event that had outside vendors.  They sold bows.  Some scouts bought the bows, and were shooting them on the lawn in front of the dining hall.  They were shooting them towards the dining hall, and there were people in that area (including me).  I   asked them to stop, they did, but it just shows the lack of common sense sometimes present in scout aged kids. 

17 hours ago, SSScout said:

There was a "Vendor" selling archery gear???   At a Scout event?  Totally against everything I was taught to teach as a Range Safety Officer.  "No personal gear allowed on the Scout Range." "No archery done OFF the official range, without the RSO oversight." Two and a half years later? 

Ach mein gott…. 

 

Technically, the boys were probably not allowed to use the gear at the event. 

On 12/15/2018 at 12:16 AM, MTroop said:

Hello,

There are three adult leaders in our son's troop.  One of the scout is one of the troop leader's son. Since the new troop leader joined the group, most of his son rank's requirement have been signed by him.  One of the leaders also has a son in the troop but his son's rank requirements have always been signed by the other leader. We parents wouldn't notice or be curious if the new troop leader's son didn't advance two ranks in the same amount other scouts advanced to one.  And we know that his son is not lazy but not extremely motivated either.  Is there a rule or restriction on unit leader sign off on his/her own son's rank requirements.

 

 

There is no  such rule or restriction from National. It's just not a good idea.  We  had an informal rule, that pretty much all the leaders obeyed, which is, that unless it was a matter of looking up records on the computer and signing (for number of campouts, outings, etc.), leaders didn't sign things off for their own sons. Our SM didn't even have Scoutmaster conferences with his own sons (leaving that up to ASMs to do for him). 

6 hours ago, dkurtenbach said:

Concur that program delivery varies widely among units.  In my view, consistently anemic units with poor programs that go on year after year are the single greatest long-term threat to Scouting.  Why?  Because adults who had a poor Scouting experience as youth won't put their kids in the program, and neither will their friends and family members.  Yet because shutting down an ineffective unit will look bad on this year's district and council membership statistics, district and council officials won't even consider it; they will even nurse the unit along each year at recharter time even though there is no improvement.  Corporate Scouting.

I agree with you 100%. 

2 hours ago, Terasec said:

am just curious on the use of the word "Lord"

in scouting I try to keep all religious references as generic as possible to appeal to as many religions as possible,

as we have various religious backgrounds in our pack.

for Grace I try to use same grace the scout camp uses at summer camp

as follows:

"father for this noonday meal , we would speak the praise we feel., Health and strength we have from thee. help us Lord to faithful be."

as a catholic "Lord" has a very specific meaning referring to Jesus

curious as to how other religions view the term "Lord"

do other religions use the term "Lord" ? what does it mean to them?

 

 

 

It depends on your particular Pack and CO.  The Pack and Troop I was a leader in (and sons were in from Tiger/Wolf to Eagle) was sponsored by my Parish, a Catholic Church. I see no problems with Catholic specific prayers or Christian specific prayers at Pack/Troop events.  That said, if other Troops/Packs were involved (camporee, etc.), a more vague non-Christian prayer should be used. 

On 11/27/2018 at 11:18 AM, Tired_Eagle_Feathers said:

I am more of the "pick and choose" kind of Scouter.  I like Scouting as a whole, but for me, I'm in it for the scoutcraft.  That's what turned my crank as a Scout, and what I want my son to learn.  Now frankly, I have considered just "leaving it", and we'll just go camping as a family.  I was talking with my brother-in-law over Thanksgiving and that is what they decided to do.  He tried Cub Scouts with his son but found it to "chaotic" and decided they would just go camping as a family.

I think Scouting as a whole is a great organization when it hearkens to its roots in scoutcraft and leadership.  There are many aspects I'd like it to dump, like religion and goofiness.  These things were not a part of my Scouting experience growing up.  It's probably a pack/troop specific thing.  But there are enough positive aspects of Scouting, like scoutcraft and leadership, that make me want my son to continue to enjoy doing those things under the auspices of Scouting while ignoring the parts we don't want to do. 

 

I can understand disagreement with goofiness, but religion (at least in the sense that BP saw Scouting as practical religion, aka good deeds, etc.) is a centerpiece of Scouting. It's why churches sponsor us, and it's why religious people like myself participated.  I enjoy the scoutcraft as well, but religion (i.e. practical religion) is a centerpiece of things.

On 11/23/2018 at 7:22 AM, ScouterNorth said:

 

"The Announcement Song"...it was funny at first when I was a kid, but then it became way overused and now I can't stand it.  The cross-over point for me was when an adult, in the interest of expediency, deliberately did not say the word.  After which another ADULT said "Wait, don't you have any more ANNOUNCEMENTS?"  Cue song, mostly sung by the other adults.

When I became a leader, this was still happening on a regular basis to the point where the kids were getting sick of it.  Timing is everything in comedy and most cornball hilarity is ill-timed and the kids cringe at it.

Not all campfires are Campfires.  We only usually did one or two formal Campfires per year - a scheduled event with an "agenda" (ie. group 1 shall sing a song, group 2 shall now do a skit, group 3 to provide a cheer for that skit etc.).   All other fires at camp were completely informal, chatting it up, the occasional song for kicks, etc.

Some of my favorite moments at campouts were when my oldest was SPL, and it routinely took a round of the Announcement song to get any business done. It irritated  the heck out of some of our leaders (who weren't frequent even attenders).   The kids loved it. The adults cringed (but loved it as well).  His last campout as SPL it must have taken five minutes before he could get to an announcement.  

On 10/23/2018 at 8:23 AM, Tired_Eagle_Feathers said:

One of the things that irks me so far with my son's Cub Scout experience (I was never in cubs, just Boy Scouts) is this pervasive idea that everything has to be comedic, or slapstick cornball to be "fun".  Even during the BALOO training they emphasized that there should never be a dull moment during the campfire and if there is the leader should jump in with some kind of space-filling cornball thing to keep it "fun".

At the last district campout last weekend my son opted to go back to our campsite and have our own campfire rather than go to the big group campfire.  He finds the cornball nature of the group campfires off-putting, plus he would rather sit next to the fire and tend it himself than have to sit 30 feet away from the campfire and listen to kids incoherently mumble their way through skits.  Plus it was chilly and we wanted to actually sit next to the fire.

When I was in scouting campfire time was about sitting around the camp fire and cooking and shooting the bull with your friends.   Why all the emphasis on the cornball?  Why isn't camping and scoutcraft itself considered fun?

Different strokes for different folks.  I'm not a big fan of the cornball stuff, but most of the Cubs were, including my sons.  Wanting to be the person to tell the story around the fire to the Pack inspired my oldest son to research ghost stories, and since he was speech impaired, that was a big step for him.  

7 minutes ago, TMSM said:

I would set expectations for all adults at the next comittee meeting. Make sure everyone knows the plan and agrees on the way forward. Be transparentand share all plans the scouts have provided, work the plan.

We had an issue with Scout parents demanding to go on campouts and demand they get to bring their 10 man tents. - They are not with our troop anymore

 

Well, depends on the campsite.  In my troop, the parents were allowed to use whatever they wanted to use for tents.  The regular camping parents/leaders tended towards minimalism--backpacking tents, in my case, a hammock, or we had some under the open sky ground sleepers (in appropriate weather).  

3 hours ago, CodyMiller351 said:

I am in need of more help from y'all.  My troop has obtained a difficult leader over this past year.  During our camping trip last weekend I noticed his "flaws" in a big way.  He started off by showing up Friday with bags and bags of cooking equipment that he got for the Troop.  Now the day before we made a list of a couple things we needed and he decided he wanted to volunteer to make these purchases (which I appreciate).  He also decided to buy food items that were not on the menu (I went to buy the groceries so that kind of upset me) and he gave me crap for not buying anything for desert.  I explained to him that I bought everything on the menu and if the boys wanted desert then they should have put it on the menu.  Anyways we depart and arrive at the state park.  We begin setting up camp and he states that all of the leaders should stay in one big tent instead of our personal tents.  I explain to him that we only stay in one big tent during our beach trip which was last month.  This really isn't an issue but he wouldn't budge.  Finally I gave in and set up the big tent.  After we set up camp, we tell the boys to get a fire going.  They struggle at first and the leader steps in right away.  He completely takes over and begins to "teach" them.  I say teach with quotes because I don't agree with his teaching methods (it's either his way or the highway).  After a good 30 minutes, a fire appears.  One other leader explains why we should have let the boy "fail" in a sense (which would help them eventually learn), which I agreed with.  The difficult leader disagrees with us and says he will never "let" his boy "fail".  Moving on, we are sitting around the fire at night and this leader begins playing videos on his phone.  Now I didn't have a problem with this (but I did want some peace and quite to enjoy nature) until the videos got inappropriate.  There was a good amount of bad language in some of these videos, which doesn't bother me, but it bothered one of our other leaders. He didn't say anything but you cold tell he was upset.  We all went to bed and that was the end of that (until it happened the next day again).  The next day (also our last day) he decided he didn't want to do the hike we had planned.  I understood since he struggled the day before on our hike and he isn't in the best shape.  The thing that bother me is before we left on our hike, he complained that "we need to plan our trips better".  This was in reference to our menu again.  This time it was about our lunches in which we divided out between everyone before the first hike.  He didn't think we had anything for lunch because neither of the boys decided to put anything in their day packs.  I tried to explain to him that I bought enough for two lunch for everyone and some extra but he wasn't having it.  He walked away and while we hiked for 4 hours he sat in his car.  Overall his flaws are: use of inappropriate language, not knowing his place, thinking he knows everything, thinking everything has to be his way, going against what we planned. He also disagrees with our plans for the troop (remodeling our scout hut, recruiting, etc.).  It's sad because his son is the same way.  Sorry for the long post and I know I am making my troop seem like a horrible place but we've had a rough past two years and I am trying to get us back on the right track.  

And the above is what happens when lawn mower parents become leaders. I've seen boys struggle with tents.  The SPL and other older boys help them.  

As another poster said, I see backpacking in your future, if you have sense.  

On 11/16/2018 at 2:22 PM, Hawkwin said:

I heard just this week a scouter proudly tell my scout that he occasionally asked a scout to tie a specific knot while during their Eagle BOR. It was all I could do to not comment in light of the recent Scouting Magazine article.

While I wish we could do this at regular BORs, I understand why it's not allowed.  That said, I've been pleasantly surprised at the Eagle candidates I've worked with. Most have been pretty proficient at their knots, even the ones I thought didn't know them well.  

15 hours ago, thrifty said:

most boy scouts in our troop don't wear hats so they just use whatever personal head gear they want if any.  Personally I don't see the need for mandatory assigned hats.  If the youth don't like them, they won't use them anyway. 

I agree.  Most adults like hats, but the Scouts don't, except for wearing knit caps in the winter. 

5 hours ago, Liz said:

So, I'm planning out for January when our Bear dens will be doing their Bear Claws requirements, and I've run into a little hitch. 

One of the requirements so to *either* carve two items, *or* accomplish a long list of tasks with a pocket knife. I think the kids will actually have more fun and learn more by doing the second option, although I'd like to offer them the choice. 

The problem is that one of the things they need to accomplish is "open a can using the can opener on a pocket knife." 

And I can't find a lot of options (and none affordable) that include a can opener tool. It's kind of a dinosaur that nobody really uses anymore. Not to mention that even if I do find one I'm also going to need a YouTube video or something to teach me how to use it. LOL! They all include bottle openers, but not so much can openers. 

I'd like to get each of the Bears a Cabela's $6 Multitool and not have to buy just one Leatherman to share for the same amount of money. 

All advice on this subject is welcome. Thanks!

You should be able to find a Swiss army type knife with a can opener. That or a Boy Scout standard pocket knife. Just let them use one for the whole den.  They don't need to own one yet.  

2 hours ago, Jameson76 said:

Why the quest for efficiency?  it can be done in under 2 years based on time in rank requirements.  But as has and no doubt will be noted, Eagle Scout is not the goal.  The rank is merely a stop along the scouting journey.  If attaining the Eagle rank is all that matters, the Scout is missing the point

Enjoy the trip and experiences along the way

Exactly. My boys (who happen to both be Eagles) had a great time, both before and after they made Eagle.  Fun and learning is why we should be doing Scouting.  A First Class Scout should have all the skills necessary to setup a campsite--tent, kitchen, etc.--both at a car camping site and at an away from pavement site (backpacking or canoe camping), cook at that campsite, leave the campsite in at least as good shape as when he got there, and be able to take down the camp.  They should be able to do this on cold days, hot days, warm days, ideal days, dry days, humid days and wet days (unless they live in an area that doesn't get all of those conditions). 

2 hours ago, scoutboy said:

What is an average length of time to spend on each requirement from scout to Eagle?

And, does anyone have any tips to make this a more efficient process.

-WL

The best way to achieve Eagle is to participate actively in Scouting and have fun. Camp as often as you can--camp using different methods--sleep on the ground without a roof (in good weather), use a big tent, use a backpacking tent, use a tarp, hammock camp, plop camp, canoe camp and backpack.  Show up at meetings.  Show other scouts how to do the skills you learned.  Cook in a dutch oven.  Cook on a campfire.  Cook on a backpacking stove. Cook on a conventional camp stove.  Hike, bike, canoe, swim, fish, climb rocks and trees, learn how to identify critters and plants. If you actively camp, advancement will follow.  It's not efficient, but it works.  Scouting isn't for efficiency--it's to learn by doing. 

On 11/1/2018 at 10:03 AM, ParkMan said:

I've seen similar things happen with Webelos scouts that graduates Scouts into our troop.  Some dens are great and have good retention, others do not.  

My sense is that much of it is about how the Webelos den and pack operates.  I'm not sure if it's because some dens are better are preparing Scouts or because some dens do a better job of retaining those Scouts who are likely to be active Boy Scouts.  Probably a little of both.

I wonder if a well organized Webelos Den Leader training taught be former Webelos Den Leaders who have successfully made the troop transition would help.  Get the Webelos den leaders thinking a different way than Cub Scouts.  Also, get them thinking about the important things to start doing that are likely to get the Scouts successfully started in a troop.

I'm not sure that anything can really be done about that at the Cub Scout level. At least locally, that's a time of change for the boys.  As AOL Webelos, they are the top of the Pack.  As 5th grade students, they are in the last year of elementary school.  A lot of parents see that as a good time to stop, and so they don't encourage the boys. That, and being a Boy Scout is a lot more work than Webelos, at least with most parents. My observation is that boys who during Cub Scout Family camps were forced to help their parents set up a camp do better in that transition.  My sons always helped out with setting up camp--even when they were Tigers/Wolves.  Most of the other boys played while their parents set up camp.  Yes, it probably would have been easier for me to set up camp without their "help" but I wasn't doing it for ease, I was doing it for them. 

On 11/3/2018 at 8:05 PM, SSScout said:

Worst?  How about Best ! True story.... 

Cub Scout Day Camp: 200 plus Cubs. Last day, water festival day. 85degrees, sunny.   No Scout Program to speak of (unless you count the slip'n slide rescue rope pull).  I am serving as "First Assistant Everything Else"  after being Archery Range SO (wife was the CSDC Director ).  Even if there is an official activities rotation (bugle every hour), Cubs are running around, getting wet, sliding on the slides,  climbing on the hay bales,  throwing wet sponges at targets,  etc.  Woman comes up to me (I am an identified "person in authority") and waves her arms around, quote, " I have never seen such a disorganized bunch of kids in my life ! What are they doing ? What should they be doing?  What happened to the great skills and rank earning they did yesterday? I don't know WHAT to think. My son is not doing anything scoutlike today. Why is this allowed ? "  I smiled at her and asked, "where is your Cub?"  She pointed at the haybale pile "over there !"  "Is he having fun?  Is he complaining about the activities?"  "I guess he's having fun, is that okay  for a Scout Camp ??? "  I said it was all part of the plan.  She starred at me and walked away, shaking her head.   

I agree totally. Scouting should be fun.  It's the reason we do it.  That said, the fun is the way we teach the rest.  IMHO, that's the problem with most youth sports these days--they aren't fun. 

On 11/5/2018 at 10:42 AM, Eagle94-A1 said:

At least you didn't threaten to call  Child Protective Services. Seriously, we had an incident at a summer camp I worked at where the SM wanted to send the kid home, and the parents refused to pick him up as they were on a second honeymoon at Disney. Camp director then got involved. He informed the the parents they needed to pick up their son, and they refused. "We paid for summer camp, he's staying at summer camp" or words to that affect. That's when the CD gave them a choice: pick up their son by a certain time (driving time from Disney + 60 minutes) or he would report that they have a minor who had been abandoned by his parents. They made it in time.

Seriously, there are some parents who do not care what the troop wants or does.If you don't nip it in the bud now, it will get worse. Trust me on that one.;)

CPS is the nuclear option.

17 hours ago, RememberSchiff said:

IMO, also add Each scout packs his own gear and whatever gear his patrol assigns. Each scout is responsible for that gear, specifically cleaning and drying himself. He should setup a clothes line at home (he knows the knots and has rope) and learn how to use the washer and dryer. Learning  to sew would also be great.

Should parents talk to the SPL or the SM first? 

My $0.02

On a campout, if its directly related to the Scouts, the SPL.  Otherwise, the SM.  My view is the SPL is the top of the organization chart. 

1 hour ago, TMSM said:

Yes, it was amusing that both these women basically told me they new how boy scouts worked and that I was wrong. DE also liked the trip plan that I had the scouts do which clearly refuted some of her other staements about me not knowing where I was going. Duh of course I knew but I  let the scout think they were lost so they could figure it out themselves.

We did get grief from DE for not sharing phone #s with the ladies althought they didnt show up at the troop meeting before the campout so I didnt know this. Both had YPT and both were helicopters.

We live in area where parents are really demanding of teachers and I get the same attitudes as if they are my boss and are paying me through taxes. I do this for free, I enjoy working with the scouts, the Committee is happy with me and my program but new parents are really making me want to quit.

I have tried many times to go to a Webelos meeting and discuss with the parents the changes that are coming but no takers. We pull from 6 different packs so its not easy to get sme time.

 

Does BSA have a video I can send new parents that shows what not to do, how to act when new to a troop etc?

 

Well, helicopters (and their friends, the lawnmowers) make things hard sometimes.  I don't think there is a video, because troop expectations are so different.  I do think that the SM (or New Scout/Parent coordinator) should take all of the new parents aside in the first week or two after crossover, and have a meeting to both explain how the Troop (and BSA) works, and to answer any questions they have. 

Some things that have to be addressed:

How camping is done should be explicit (i.e. that the scouts camp by patrols, that the adults camp away from them, that permission is required (under normal, not emergency situations) for either group to enter the other group's area), also, the normal logistics of a campout--i.e. that one member of a patrol (or the whole patrol) will have to do the grocery shopping, the time we usually leave for a campout, expectations for food on that first night, etc.  (Our troop meets at 5 pm Friday night and plans to pull out of the parking lot at 6 pm (usually later, but that's the goal). We expect the Scouts to either have eaten before then, or to bring food with them (no stopping for fast food, etc.) for Friday night supper. 

The SPL is in charge, and the parents should ASK the SPL/ASPL first (again, unless an emergency situation) before doing anything with the troop. 

The general advancement structure should be taught to them (especially emphasizing that advancement is the Scout's responsibility, and until the Scout has tried to deal with a problem, the parent should leave things alone, also that advancement is not a group thing, but an individual one).

Money issues. (which are very specific to the troop).

46 minutes ago, TMSM said:

- Moved discussion to new thread

As SM I feel for your SM. I am in a similiar situation. We have 2 meetings with parents the first is a gentle discussion regarding boy lead, "don't do what a scout can do", "let the scouts teach each other" etc. Then I send some emails with great stoies of how scouting works and why its important to be hands off.

During the first camp out we get new parents that feel that they have to be there which according to BSA they can observe but we end up taking way too many cars and too many empty seats (like Cub Scouts). At the first dinner (adults are in a single patrol, we talk about not helping and letting them fail etc, also HIP (hands in pockets). Most get it but 1 or 2 do not. 

Then there are always the 1 or 2 that don't make it to parents meetings dont read mail or take home info. 

At summer camp the last 2 years I have had 10 - 12 adults argue that they need to be there (we have 35 scouts). I do my best to talk them out of it and but what can I do, We have a meeting before summer camp with the adults going where I spell out - We (SM and 2 ASMs) don't need help with the scouts, don't help them unless for safety reasons, I know you have skills but lets them teach, stay out of patrol ares, don't help the SPL with his leadership - I got this.

As soon as I get far enough away, then come back I find adults teaching square knots, telling the SPL to clean up this or that, putting their sons in charge of this or that or teaching axe and saw skills. 

When I pull them away to discuss boy led troop they either get it or they blow up in my face and tell me thats not how it works. Either way its uncomfortable for me to have this conversation 10 more times.

2 months ago I allowed a mom and her mom to go on a bike campout. WIthin 15 minutes they had both tried to take over from the scouts. When we came in a situation where there was an element of danger I asked grand ma to do what I ask her and the scouts to do. She refused saying "youre not the boss of me" . The next morning the mom was rolling her sons pants legs up and I pulled her and her mom over to discuss a better option. - Why don't we discuss this as a safety thing with the SPL and let him have the Pls help. She immediately jump in my face and said thats not how Boy Scouts works! Grandma stepped up too yelling at me, I did my best to help them understand but they continued to try to interfere. Grandma sent a note to the council saying that I was not being safe and let the scouts lead not the parents etc,, made up a few things too..

 

Sorry for the long rant but what I decided to do is to have any adult that will be attending a campout sign a contract signaling that they know and understand my role as SM and they will respect the boundaries, Signed and initaled in several places. CC has not let me use these yet.

 

 

Wow.  IMHO, if I was a DE and got a note saying that the scouts were leading, and not the parents, I'd be congratulating the troop. 

1 hour ago, malraux said:

I know that one of the troops our pack feeds to has an explicit rule that any parent who was in leadership in cub scouts has to take a year off of leadership before they can assist the troop. Again, good to help transition away from the cub scout model.

Great idea, although I might amend that.  I would say that the former cub leaders should be committee members, but shouldn't be working with the boys as ASMs or SMs. 

On 10/30/2018 at 6:35 AM, FaithfulScouter said:

Our Troop has 50 boys.  Right now we have six Eagle Service projects at varying stages.  Generally speaking,  the candidates invite the whole Troop to help them with fund raising, however when it come to the actual project, some of the Eagle candidates have been handpicking the Scouts who will work on their project.  There are some boys who would like to work on certain projects but they aren't invited to do so.

What are your thoughts on this?  If we are focusing on leadership development, shouldn't we ask the Scouts to manage people who aren't their best friends?

It's up to the Eagle candidate.  My youngest son noticed while working on his older brother's Eagle project, that after a certain number of boys, less work got done. So, when it was his turn, he didn't try to drum up as many workers.  Part of leadership is choosing your team when you are able.  If you know John, Mike and Joe are hard workers, and Fred, George and Mickey aren't, why wouldn't you just want John, Mike and Joe there?  Also, there is a matter of skills/age/etc.  

On 10/30/2018 at 6:55 AM, scotteg83 said:

Its the Scout doing the Eagle Project responsibility to find and provide the workforce.  No where does it say it has to be fellow Scouts to volunteer.  Personally I would encourage an open invitation because more hands could me quicker work.  But if they feel they can get it done with a select group, then that's their decision.  As a Eagle scout mentor, they should remind the Scout that in a work place in the future, they will have to work with people not of their own choosing, and this would be a great opportunity to get experience in working with a vast group of people.

More hands isn't always quicker work, when Boy Scout aged boys are involved.  

17 hours ago, MikeS72 said:

Regardless of age, no one should do Wood Badge because someone else thinks they should.  I took the course at 18, although it was a much different animal (pun intended) 46 years ago.

As for SM specific and IOLS, if you want to be officially position trained, those are required.  If JTE is important to your troop, having leaders position trained is important as well.  As @Sentinel947 said, you may find yourself helping others who do not have your experience during IOLS.  I came back into the program after a hiatus when my nephew was in Cubs, and moved into the troop with him.  IOLS was not around during my last stint, and as an ASM I took the course last spring.  While there was nothing presented that I was not already very familiar with, there were a lot of new leaders in the course, so I spent a fair amount of time helping them with knots, lashings, map & compass, etc. 

I really have no input into the Woodbadge part of the concern. I know great, mediocre, and bad Scout leaders who have gone through Woodbadge.

6 hours ago, CodyMiller351 said:

I am a 19 year old Assistant Scoutmaster and some of the leaders in my Troop are trying to convince me to sign up for Wood Badge.  Personally, I don't think it's necessary.  I believe that since I went through the entire Cub and Boy Scout program that I should be the leader I need to be.  I earned my Eagle Scout award when I was 17.  After that I became a Junior Assistant Scoutmaster.  Once I turned 18 I became an Assistant Scoutmaster and I have been for a little over a year.  A couple weeks ago I went to a day-long program my district was holding.  They had a a couple classes adult leaders could sign up for.  The main reason I went was for the Scoutmaster training.  It must be stated that I also did not think I needed to attend this training but a few leaders believe it would be a good idea.  During that training, I learned nothing that I didn't learn throughout my Scouting career.  I was very disappointed but it was what I expected.  It only proves my point that this "adult leader training" the BSA offers is for people who have no prior experience in Scouting and need to learn the basics.  I love expanding my knowledge and becoming a better leader but I do not enjoy wasting my time and money.  

 

SM training would be good, if nothing else, it would reassure you that you know what is needed--I took it after being an ASM for two years, and didn't learn anything but it reassured me that what we were doing was correct.  I do agree IOLS training would probably be useless, but the SM training would probably help you see things as an adult.    Also, as a 19 year old, you need to make sure that you understand YPT better than anybody else in the room.