perdidochas
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Posts posted by perdidochas
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21 hours ago, NJCubScouter said:
That may be the common-sense answer, but I don't think its the BSA answer.
I disagree totally with the answer. Rules are rules. If you asked a 25 year old (or even a 45 year old), many would say they don't feel any differently than they did when they turned 18. Not a common sense answer at all.
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23 hours ago, MattR said:
Welcome to the forum.
This is beyond stupid. I can only hope this is an isolated incident.
I had a scout turn 18 on a campout and he asked if had to move out of his tent that night. I asked him if he felt any different than the day before, he said no, I told him there's your answer.
I disagree. Scout should have moved out based on YPT. In my sons' troop, that wasn't a problem, as most of the older scouts tented (or hammocked) alone anyway.
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2 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:
Update.
SM had two conversations with the family. First meeting appeared to have ended with an understanding. But minutes after getting home, SM gets a message Mom wants another meeting on the matter. Long story short, they will be looking at other units. I do not think any other units in the district will allow Scout to camp with mom and dad instead of his patrol.
Good luck to them (and you). Maybe when she realizes that this isn't just your "hard-core" troop, but is the general thinking in Scouting, she will realize how silly she's being.
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14 minutes ago, ParkMan said:
Just wondering though...
What's the benefit to the Scout by so angering the family that they leave? Is getting the Scout go tent with other Scouts an issue important enough to have a separation over?
The boy is not getting the program. By this age he should be camping with his buddies. This boy ABANDONED his buddy in the night, which is not a good situation.
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4 hours ago, Mich08212 said:
so FYI... I still have no gotten a reply back from the SM. No we have no idea what the dog gone problem is. A council member told me to reach out to the SM and invite him and the others. In fact the council member said that some of them will in fear of looking like jack asses...LOL thats what he said... quote.
it doesnt matter to me who speaks but the council member said I could not MC it. I can host it but, there needs to be a script for the ceremony.
Sounds sketchy about you not being able to MC. That said, I do advise a script. There are probably hundreds of them online.
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On 7/19/2018 at 11:18 AM, bearess said:
My son crossed over to Boy Scouts last November. He finally got his Scout rank in May. He’s not made any advancement progress since— I just looked at his handbook and he has three things on Tenderfoot signed off. He’s active in his Troop— they have about one camping weekend a month, which he attends. He’s going to camp, and the next week going on a week long camping trip, including three days/two nights of canoeing. He enjoys Scouts. I think he’s done most of the Tenderfoot (and some second class) requirements, but he’s completely unmotivated to get them signed off on. He’s also, for some reason, very unwilling to do a Scoutmaster conference. It took him 2-3 months to ask for one for Scout. His scoutmaster is perfectly nice, unintimidating, and I think my son likes him. But for some reason the idea of a conference is a no go!
So, to sum it up, son has been active in Boy Scouts for nearly a year. He’s gotten Scout rank, and no merit badges, mainly due to his lack of follow through. I don’t really care— he obviously doesn’t! Is there a reason I should care? Would you push him to do advance a bit more? He’s a very mellow kid, and if I told him to step it up, he would.
In my troop, it was the responsibility of the Scout to ask the adult leader present to sign off requirements. You need to tell him that it's his job to ask the adults for sign offs. If he's having fun, that's the important thing.
Signed,
A two year Tenderfoot that never advanced beyond that point.
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On 7/13/2018 at 5:57 AM, RememberSchiff said:
Scott Harmon, Sustainability Task Force Leader, - BSA
In 2009, I pulled together a team to work on incorporating sustainability into scouting so that boys and girls across the United States could change the worldview of their families, too. After three years of planning, the Boy Scouts of America asked us to develop the Eagle Scout-required sustainability merit badge, which now has been earned by more than 25,000 scouts.
Two years ago, this idea expanded beyond scouting to provide sustainability training to boys and girls, scouts and non-scouts, at local summer camps. More than 1,000 Boy Scout camps are in the United States alone, most of which are unused during the school year. Most can accommodate at least 300 campers a week. Assuming a 36-week school year, that’s 10 million camper-weeks of unused potential capacity per year.
What if we could use that capacity during the school year for teaching middle-school and high-school students about sustainability while experiencing the great outdoors? That became our vision: to gather sustainability experts and interested teens at hundreds of scout summer camps to create a Sustainable Future Outdoor Academy focused on teaching young people about the United Nations Sustainable Development Goals in a hands-on format.
From Aug. 13 to 17, we will be piloting the SFOA program at Cutter Scout Reservation, a 300-acre summer camp owned by BSA’s Pacific Skyline Council in Northern California. We are reaching out to schools groups, religious groups and scout groups to get a mix of youth entering the seventh, eighth and ninth grades this coming school year. They will be sleeping in safari tents equipped with double-decker cots and LED lanterns and will have the opportunity to try canoeing, boating and archery in their free time in addition to learning about sustainability. They will team with college-age counselors to give them support.
...
Price: This Camp has been developed and subsidized by generous sponsors, so the standard Camp price of $500 is being offered this time only for $250 . Campers provide chaperones. Need-based scholarships are also available. Camp limited to 48More, including planet-related SDG's curriculum, at source links:
https://www.greenbiz.com/article/how-sustainability-summer-camp-could-affect-millions-youth
Sustainability is a horrible merit badge that turns Scouts off. It consists of the worst parts of Environmental Science on steroids. Should be eliminated ASAP.
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8 hours ago, scoutldr said:
The Scout is an Eagle...the EBOR was convened and he passed. His application was approved by the SM, the Troop Committee Chair, District, Council and National and he has his certificate and medal in hand. All this pontificating about a "valid" EBOR is moot. The only remaining question is why the jerks on the Troop Committee and SM are denying him a Court of Honor.
That was what I was wondering, and I have the answer--the Scout crossed the committee chair early on and late in his Scouting career. It's sad that adult leaders can't act according to the Scout Law.
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2 hours ago, Mich08212 said:
Here is what I want to answer on and cant find a way to do it so Im copying and pasting.
This all sounds a bit weird to me. If I were to guess what is happening I would say that someone on the committee for scoutmaster or other powerful individual in The Troop decided that The Troop should not take the time and expense to plan a court of honor 4 an 18 year old who has been out of the troop and not active in the unit since aging out a year ago. Scoutmaster then goes to insinuate the decision came from Council and the truth is just following that.
Is it reasonable or correct for a troop to make such a decision? I don't know for sure. Perhaps there are Financial and time restrictions on the troop that they feel the cost and time and Personnel Resources required for a court of honor are not in the overall interest or capability of the troop at this point. If this is the case I still cannot believe that the actions taken are appropriate. A better line of action might be to explain the Troop resource constraints and ask for the scout or his family to take on more of the planning or financial responsibilities of putting on the court of honor. The other option would be to offer to present and recognize the Eagle at a normal troop court of honor and if the Scout or family wanted more than it was up to them to go above and beyond that.
Now for my response.
yes, obviously its someone of power making the decision.
Next, Its not about time or expense here.
My son finished everything on his 18th birthday June 9th. Complete. BOR was in October. Next is ECOH. Like e v e r y other boy in the troop, most dont finish till their 18th BD. then BOR then a ECOH. all in timely fashion for everyone.... well except my son.
With that said. THEY WILL NOT give my son a reason for this. Regardless, they should give my son a reason,. and FYI: they just had a court of honor for a boy who just made eagle.. so I say... ITS NOT FINANCIAL>
The thing is the EBOR, unless requested an exception from National, has to be done within 30 days of the Eagle's 18th birthday.
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2 hours ago, Mich08212 said:
My question to that is how?
When the chief of police speaks and legislation comes to speak and recognition from higher ups the the POTUS...
These are all the things that happen at a ECOH. As well as the recipient of the Eagle project is there to collect any money left over from the project. People are thanked. How would I put together something like that when I have no idea how to contact the POTUS etc etc. That is the job of the Troop leaders that have done it for every other boy who has reached eagle in this troop.
Well, in my two Eagle sons' case, my wife looked up all the appropriate addresses and sent out the requests for recognition from governor, etc. I contacted our church about using our church family life center. In the case of one of my buddies', he contacted people he knew to come speak, including the Sheriff. My oldest son had an OA ceremony for his Eagle. Both boys had our priest present. Something happened between your son and the troop leaders. I wish you would share it or at least acknowledge it.
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On 7/13/2018 at 6:36 PM, Chris1 said:
This all sounds a bit weird to me. If I were to guess what is happening I would say that someone on the committee for scoutmaster or other powerful individual in The Troop decided that The Troop should not take the time and expense to plan a court of honor 4 an 18 year old who has been out of the troop and not active in the unit since aging out a year ago. Scoutmaster then goes to insinuate the decision came from Council and the truth is just following that.
Is it reasonable or correct for a troop to make such a decision? I don't know for sure. Perhaps there are Financial and time restrictions on the troop that they feel the cost and time and Personnel Resources required for a court of honor are not in the overall interest or capability of the troop at this point. If this is the case I still cannot believe that the actions taken are appropriate. A better line of action might be to explain the Troop resource constraints and ask for the scout or his family to take on more of the planning or financial responsibilities of putting on the court of honor. The other option would be to offer to present and recognize the Eagle at a normal troop court of honor and if the Scout or family wanted more than it was up to them to go above and beyond that.
You are probably right. In my sons' troop there were three options for a ECOH. The first was simply a ceremony as part of the planned (usually quarterly) COH, with nothing special other than that. (we never had one of these, but it was allowed). The second is like the above, but the parents of the Eagle provided refreshments, and there was a bit more done. (this was fairly commonly done, especially with 18+ year olds). The third is a special ECOH planned by the Eagle and his parents. (most common option). Most of the troop and leaders would show up to this.
I feel that the OP is not telling us the whole story if he keeps having these discrimination ideas. As others have asked. If you think your son is being discriminated against, what do you think he is being discriminated against for? What reason?
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On 7/13/2018 at 5:41 AM, qwazse said:
'Round here, the scout and his parents arrange the ECoH (pick the date, hall, type of ceremony, etc ...) and invite the troop or crew and others to participate.
Obviously, the troop can accept or decline the invitation, but they can't keep a scout from having one.
Around here, also.
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4 hours ago, desertrat77 said:
I agree, Perdidochas, excellent point. I wandered by the pit/court a few times each day. Just passing through, listening and observing without being obvious. The scouts picked their own teams, arbitrated as needed, laughed a lot, and went full speed to win everything. From what I could tell, most of teams were a mix of scouts from several troops...teammates they had just met. Rarely was the pit/court empty/quiet.
ETA: Many of these scouts were playing all hours of the day, it seemed.
Unfortunately, your former ASM's MO is more common today than in years previous--the belief that all scouts, regardless of age, should be treated as cubs. The scouts never get a chance to grow up, lead, have fun, or solve problems if there is always "adult supervision." Then they go to college or join the military--culture shock!
Well, a few months after that he quit. He was kind of angry that we didn't listen to him about absolutely everything. I was happy to be rid of him, and the boys more so. My own sons were probably his worst critics (but then again, they were some of the older boys that the ASMs trusted to run things). We were the family's third troop......
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13 hours ago, desertrat77 said:
Excellent points re enjoyment (or lack thereof) and burn out.
I think about this every time I drive down a certain turnpike in OK. Along the way, on the outskirts of a town, there is a huge youth baseball/soccer complex. Day and night, the parking lot is full. All of the fields are in use. Rarely do I see the place empty.
I reflect back to when my kids were young and involved in sports. They wanted to sign up, but I never detected much joy on their part once the season started. Endless practices. Fees up front and then mandatory candy sales and other fundraisers during the season. Long drives in the mini-van to games. Cranky children doing homework and eating fast food in the back. Weekends spent watching the children play half-heartedly. Obnoxious parents. Coaches acting like every game was the World Series/World Cup/etc. You know the scene.
I believe many families are realizing that it isn't worth it.
When I was at camp a few weeks ago, I noticed that the gaga ball pit and the basketball court were always in use. I found it interesting that the scouts were competing, definitely trying their best to win, but also having fun. And there was zero adult or staff supervision. The scouts were running their own show. Resolving their own conflict. Competing on their own, without parents and coaches orchestrating everything. I'm sure the scouts benefited in many ways.
Well, I'm glad one of our former ASM's wasn't there. He would have wanted direct two deep leadership at the gaga pit/basketball court. The Scouts would play field games for about 45 minutes each meeting, and mostly the adults worked with older Scouts who were working on merit badges. We trusted the Scouts to run their field games and to do the right thing in an accident. They did for the few knee scrapes, etc. that happened. This ASM thought we should have two adults watching the Scouts every minute.
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On 7/6/2018 at 2:49 PM, sandlime said:
I found a post from 2002, but wanted a more recent conversation. When a Boy bridges from Cub Scouts to Boy Scouts...if they have earned their Whittling Chip, can they continue to use their knife until they have an opportunity to earn their Totin' Chip?
I don't view it that way. I also think that Totin' chip should be one of the first things a Boy Scout learns.
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On 6/12/2018 at 9:58 AM, 69RoadRunner said:
Charcoal with lighter fluid in it seems to require more briquettes than the charcoal without.
You can buy pre-formed parchment paper at REI and I'm sure Amazon.
IMHO, charcoal with lighter fluid should be avoided. You can light charcoal just as fast with a charcoal chimney, and with less noxious fumes.
Wal-Mart sells Dutch oven liners in their outdoor section.
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3 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:
No medical reasons for him staying with dad. And the kid is not afraid to camp, but is afraid to sleep away from dad.
We have one Scout with a medical condition already. No one, except the Scout himself, has a problem with him sleeping with dad. That Scout is working on independence from dad, and was in his own tent the entire week of summer camp. Precautions were made, and dad was in a tent next to him. But That Scout is slowly getting independence.
As for abandoning his buddies, yes. This past week, he abandoned his buddy. Previous camp outs he has abandoned anywhere from 1 to 2 Scouts, and in one case his entire patrol as they built a group shelter.
IMHO, if he abandons a single buddy, it's a safety issue. He needs to be told that he is responsible to his buddy. (two buddies or a patrol is a different thing). The buddy system is a cornerstone in our scouting safety system.
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On 7/6/2018 at 12:25 PM, Redman said:
We are having some issues within our committee. From the training I took I seem to recall that as long as we have the secretary and at least one other committee member we are able to have a committee/leader meeting. Our committee chair is refusing to let us have a committee/leader meeting without her and says that we cannot have a committee meeting per policy. Obviously it makes sense to have a meeting with her when possible, however, she is often out of town, sick, or has some emergency and the rest of us are left to her mercy when she schedules a meeting even when it doesn't work for the rest of us. We would like to have monthly meetings but because she refuses to have a meeting without her we end up only having meetings once or twice a year. Does anyone happen to know if we can in fact have a committee/leader meeting without the chair?
Talk to your COR, who chooses the Committee Chair, maybe it's time for a new one. Per JTE, a good Troop or Pack should have at least 6 Committee meetings a year.
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20 hours ago, Eagle94-A1 said:
That is a question for the SM as he is the one who signed off on it. Unfortunately in my troop only the adults and JASMs can sign off, not PLs or SPL. And the ASM responsible for the Scout;s patrol is the summer camp SM, and did not realize he is 2nd Class.
I think that is one of the issues to be discussed. I told the SM my concerns regarding the Scout tenting with him and the MC's reliability when someone id depending upon him. At camporee, he was suppose to set up and run an event for me all day. Instead he got someone else to run the event while he went fishing with his Cub Scout son. He committed to running the event 6-8 months prior to the camporee. The fishing derby was announced the week before, and over the camporee chiefs objections. And as I have mentioned, he has left early from camp outs in the past. IMHO, I cannot rely on him.
How many scouts do you have in a tent? Is he deserting his buddy when he sleeps in his dad's tent?
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22 hours ago, LVAllen said:
How does he earn 2nd Class if he refuses to spend the night in a tent he pitched or other structure he helped erect?
And removing a Scout from a campout without informing the SPL or SM beforehand should have resulted in an immediate disinvite of the dad to any future outings.
He can help to set up his dad's tent.....
Parents are always welcome at activities. You can't ban them for anything other than YPT.
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On 7/8/2018 at 9:18 AM, Eagle94-A1 said:
I was not at summer camp the entire week, just the last night since I was picking up Scouts. But I had a chat with the Acting SM about incidents that happened this week regarding one of the helicopter parents. This is the one who allows his son to sneak into the tent with him. Dad who is a MC, allowed his son to sneak into his tent the entire week they were in tents. Then both of them went off site one nite to stay in a hotel.
This is the Scout who has been in the troop over a year. All of the camp outs he's been to he has either A) snuck out and slept with dad, B) had dad stay outside his tent until he fell asleep, or C) whined and left early. SM has had 2 conferences with the Scout in regards to the matter for Tenderfoot and Second Class. Scout was suppose to stop the matter, and it was after the 2nd Class SMC that the dad stayed outside the tent. Since being given Second Class, he has continued to sneak in or whined about the camp and left early.
And then both of them left to stay overnite in a hotel. They didn't tell anyone they were doing this until they had arrived at the hotel. Mom and Cub brother showed up early for Family nite at camp. Apparently they got a hotel room nearby. When they had to leave, they went to the hotel instead of driving 4+ hours home. Understandable, but the dad and Scout should have remained at camp.
I've commented on the problem in the past and have gotten little to no support on the matter from the other adults. I've even caught hell on the topic when I mentioned that camporees are Boy Scout events, not family events, and only Webelos would be allowed. I was told the troop is "family friendly." But one of the ironies from this week is the person that made the comment is the acting SM from summer camp. I think he is slowly seeing how family camping is causing problems to the patrol method.
Another irony, one I am proud of, is the Scout with the documented medical condition. This is the Scout who must have a parent with him just in case. For a year, he was sleeping in dad's tent in case of an emergency. Last camp out the troop went on, he stayed his with his patrol mates! Then for summer camp, he stayed in a tent with another patrol mate! Grant you dad was in the next tent over. But this Scout is slowly getting what he wants; independence.
Is there something wrong with the first kid? Autism spectrum maybe? Or does he really hate camping?
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On 6/26/2018 at 2:29 PM, CalicoPenn said:
Seems the consensus is to drop the non-active merit badges in favor of more outdoor/activity oriented merit badges. I thought about it in terms of the mission of the BSA:
The mission of the Boy Scouts of America is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law.
I don't see anything in the mission of the Boy Scouts of America or in the Scout Oath and Law about Scouts becoming better outdoorsmen. Its all about making ethical and moral choices. Its about, as the DRP puts it, becoming the best kind of citizen.
Its those non-active merit badges that seem to fit in much more with the mission that the active merit badges. Just something to ponder, I think.
I disagree. I think that young men learn more about the above in a campout than in a month of school, for the most part. Or in other words, I think that the best way to produce a good citizen is to have them camp with Boy Scouts, working in a team, on a regular basis. I don't deny that the goal is not making better outdoorsmen, I just think that the process of making better outdoorsmen tends to produce good ethical and moral choice makers over sitting in a class talking about these things. It's kind of like Algebra. The skills involved in Algebra aren't really that necessary. The mental discipline and critical thinking skills involved in learning Algebra are well used every other place. The process is important, not just the content.
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On 6/30/2018 at 2:17 PM, AndrewCoughlin said:
Wa .wondering if you were a OA member as a youth, and come back after several years as an adult does your status in OA continue?
Yes, if you can find the records. Our former SM had been out of Scouts for probably 30 years, and he had been an OA member as a youth, and got to come back to OA just by paying his dues.
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IMHO, LNT is starting to go too far. The only thing that makes sense not to geotag are things like the locations of rare flora and fauna that people may want to collect illegally. I don't think there is anything unethical or non-LNT about geotagging a scenic vista.
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Breaking Point
in Issues & Politics
Posted
Two different things. I have no problem with the squirt gun fights, but the YPT is much more legalistic, and I can see how that could be a disaster. I would also question a 18 year old who wanted to tent with another scout, but that's because my sons' troop culture was that most of the older scouts tented alone.