perdidochas

On 5/16/2019 at 5:16 PM, CarlosD said:

Hi all,

I became our unit's SM back in March. I have two sons in our troop. I have not checked off any requirements for them, to avoid any appearance of conflict of interest. Do BSA guidelines prohibit the SM or other Adult Leader from checking off son's requirements for rank advancement or merit badges? Can the SM hold an SM conference with his/her son?

Thanks.

The general rule in my boys' troop (I was one of the ASMs) is that parents didn't sign off anything unless they were the only people permitted to sign it, or it was a matter of troop records on the online system (number of outings, campouts, etc.).  By only person permitted to sign, I mean things like if we had one Environmental Science counselor, then he could sign off on his sons' advancement, etc.  Our SM's sons had their SM conferences with one of the ASMs.    

On 5/7/2019 at 10:00 PM, SSF said:

I can't fathom how any unit could hold ten events, six of which must be outdoor events or camping trips, within a three months span. What unit is that active...???

I don't see how anyone could have realistically met that particular requirement between 2/1 and 5/04.

It is possible for her to have achieved this under advancement guidelines, but realistically, the probability of any scout actually doing this is extremely low.

If this girl actually did what she has claimed, I have no doubt that requirements were either overlooked, held to a ridiculously low standard, or her leaders may have allowed her to double-dip, or even triple-dip.

It's not sustainable, but on a one time basis, it would be possible to have ten events in 12 weeks.  One campout a month for the three required.  Have three hiking trips on other weekends.  Then have  4 other events in that time. It's less of a time committment than most sports for that time period.   For a motivated Scout with a Troop/leaders willing to go the extra mile, it would be easily possible.  It would be hard to do this all of the time, admittedly, but it's possible. 

1 hour ago, mrkstvns said:

Our troop has the same rule. After my son earned his Star rank he made me take him to REI to buy the same small, lightweight tent that his friends got. No rule telling them what kind of tent to get, but fitting in with your peers is evidently its own motivation. Now if he were a hipster like me, he'd buy a heavy army surplus tent....

My oldest got a series of tents and other shelters.  He got one he called the coffin--small one man single-layer tent. He hated it, because it had almost no ventilation. Then he bought himself a cheap popup tent--the instant kind.  Next was a hammock, then a two man backpacking style tent.  He also camped in a tarp, as well as under the skies in a bear burrito (because of dew, they would put down a tarp, then their sleeping pad, then their sleeping bag, and would then cover themselves with the rest of the tarp).    Youngest just got a one person tent and was happy with it. 

2 hours ago, Sentinel947 said:

My understanding of the rule means that won't work. The rule says "No more than two years apart in age." It doesn't specify how many scouts in a tent. So if there is a group of scouts 11, 12 and 14 in a tent, that's still a violation of the rule just like if there was an 11 and 14 year old in the tent. 

The solution to the above is to have the 14 year old tent alone, and the 11 and 12 year old in another tent.  In my boys' old troop, they had a rule that Star and above scouts could tent alone.  Most did.  That said, had I been creating the rule, I would have had it be First Class and above, but it was troop tradition long before I was an ASM there. 

10 hours ago, chief027 said:

Our troop has a nice khaki color that is very similar to the Field Uniform/ Class A color, however, I think a nice bright color would help our scouts stand out from the crowd. Our Council Camp uses that method to help troops identify the staff, the t-shirts are a blue which stands out but isn't too in your face, it's better than the old highlighter green color they used.

At an OA event that the local Lodge sponsors both as a fundraiser and an opportunity to camp, the staffers all had pink shirts to stand out. 

4 minutes ago, mrkstvns said:

Not at all!!

I'm simply observing what is generally true. Just walk through any outdoor store in the world. I'll bet you find a WHOLE lot more camo jackets and khaki shirts than you do brilliant yellow and red shirts...

Similarly, I find that serious auto mechanics tend to have a lot of wrenches...

The point is your blanket statement is incorrect. There are plenty of serious outdoorsman who like bright colors.  If you had said "most" serious outdoorsman in your earlier statement, I wouldn't have quibbled.  The way you stated it implied that you weren't a serious outdoorsman if you liked bright colors.  Also, what's in a store is primarily what the store's marketing department likes, not necessarily serious outdoorsman.  

15 hours ago, Onslow said:

I feel you're completely missing the point.  Sectarian preaching is wholly inappropriate in the world of scouting imo.  Whatever happened to "A Scout is Kind"?

I once witnessed a hell fire sermon being preached at a camporee.  I'm a Baptist, and I regret not reporting this to the council as an inappropriate incident.

I disagree.  Sectarian preaching at the unit level is allowed.  It is rarely done, but it is allowed.  If my troop is sponsored by the local Catholic Church, I would expect a bit of Catholicism in it.  That said, there should be alternatives allowed for Scouts in the Troop.  

19 hours ago, mrkstvns said:

No offense intended, but the LNT point about "courtesy" isn't necessarily about how YOU feel, but about how OTHERS might feel...

Serious outdoorsmen *DO* tend to prefer subtlty. 

Even if I absolutely LOVE day-glo yellow, I will avoid it in the backcountry out of respect for others, just as I will avoid wearing sexually suggestive T-shirts when I attend Sunday church services. 

So now you're saying I'm not a serious outdoorsman?  Basically you are saying that anyone that disagrees on this issue with you can't be a serious outdoorsman.  

  I don't see that bright colored clothes leave a trace at all.  They cause absolutely no damage to the environment, other than your sensibilities.  

3 hours ago, PinkPajamas said:

We're at the cub level and we have the brightest neon orange known to man. I love it for tracking kids. 

best colors for cubs are bright colors for that reason.

4 hours ago, mrkstvns said:

As I read the current discussion about red jac-shirts, it occurred to me that wearing bright red colors like that jac-shirt doesn't really fit with the more natural, earth-tone colors adopted my most outdoor-focused organizations.  Come to think of it, the colors used by many BSA units for their Class-B shirts clash violently with that same earth tone focus.

Why should we even care about things like colors?

Well, most outdoor-focused organizations adopt those earth tones for a reason, and that reason has nothing whatsoever to do with fashion sense, or personal preferences. The reason most organizations go for earth tones is usually:

• Harmony with nature (dirt is brown, trees are green). Dress in those colors, and you blend in.
• Camouflage. When you blend in, you can better observe wildlife without spooking them with unnatural hues. Fellow Audubon members tell me this is why they like earth tones, but I sometimes question that given the number of brilliantly plumaged bird species...but even then, I see their point because dirt is still brown and trees are still green.
• Courtesy.  Being courteous to other outdoorsmen is one of the 7 principles of Leave No Trace, and there are a lot of people who enjoy being outdoors for the natural experience.  Day-glo green jackets, fire engine red backpacks and lemon yellow tents sure don't belong in a "natural" environment, so the more serious outdoorsmen avoid such garish fashion statements except for when golfing and yachting, where looking like a clown is acceptable behavior.

These things are discussed during the long 50-hour LNT Master Educator class, but most outdoorsmen pick up on it anyway by osmosis and experience. It's also discussed on various outdoor enthusiast sites.

One enthusiast site that enjoy perusing and pondering is "LNT Dude":  http://www.leavenotracedude.com/considerate-of-others.shtml

On this site, he says, in part...

Colors - Neutral colors help minimize the visual impact you have on others. Instead of bright yellow tents, use grey, green, or blue. Use a tan backpack cover and save the hunter orange one for hunting season. Consider the colors of your clothing and plan to wear earth-tones. This will help your group seem smaller and less noticable, especially in open areas where there is little forest cover.

 

So what are your thoughts?

Do colors matter in scouting?

Can we tell how serious a unit is about their outdoor skill level from the color of their Class B????

Inquiring minds want to inquire...

There are different reasons. My old troop had the neckers that were forest green with yellow writing (BSA symbol, etc.). Our Class Bs were the same color scheme.  I don't really buy the LNT argument against bright colors.  I don't find bright colored gear to be offensive.  That said, the neutral colors are better for nature watching. The bright colors are safer, especially in the woods during hunting season. 

14 minutes ago, malraux said:

I also think there's the weakness within the GSUSA of leaders kinda getting expected to handle 12 years of running a unit all the way from kindergarten through to high school. But the skills and needs of an elementary unit are very different from a high school one. With the BSA, there's a bit more specialization.

Well, maybe. I have been a Tiger Cub Den leader, Bear Den Leader, Webelos Den Leader (through AOL), Advancement coordinator, Assistant Scoutmaster,  Merit Badge Counselor and Eagle Project advisor.  That's not too non-typical in BSA. 

Edit: Decided not to comment.

On 4/16/2019 at 11:01 AM, TMSM said:

My Scouts have a skit called JCPenny. in the skit the first scout comes by with a nice shirt and the Boy #1 says nice shirt where did you get that and he says JCPenny, second scout comes by with and scouts # 1 says nice pants where did you get them - JCPenny. At the end of the skit a boy runs on stage in his underwear and scout number 1 says who are you - answer - I am JCPenny.

Due to YP I have asked the bos not to do this skit anymore or at least use gym shorts instead of underwear. They have asked to see the specific rule, page number where BSA does not permit this. - Can anyone help?

 

Guide to Safe Scouting:

https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/gss/gss01/

Quote

Appropriate attire is required for all activities.

On 3/31/2019 at 7:16 AM, WisconsinMomma said:

Hi Everyone,

My 14 year old First Class scout son was invited and voted into OA from our Troop.  From what I heard, many scouts from our Troop were elected into OA.  

My husband's attitude (and son's) out of the gate was -- it's just more work.

However, I was talking with another Scouter who said that when he was a youth he never had the opportunity and it's special.  So he should at least go to the Ordeal?  He also said that whole families can end up in OA and with 3 boys, it's possible they could all be in together, in time. 

How can we help infom and/or encourage our son?  Thanks!

Both of my sons were in OA.  The oldest was Vigil Honors (highest honor you can get in OA), the youngest was Brotherhood (middle honor).  Your boy needs to talk to other OA members in the troop to figure out if he wants to be in OA.  My sons loved it. They got a chance to camp as just fellow campers, without having to worry about the younger boys all the time, as they would during Troop campouts.  Based on talking with a former SM in our troop, he wouldn't recommend just going to the Ordeal if you have no intention of being in OA--he calls those people "Sash and dashers."

15 hours ago, Samuel said:

Hello, I would like to apply for Adult Membership, Merit Badge Councilor, Assistant Scout Master & Nova Councilor positions.

Do I need to fill separate applications for each positions or anyway to combine them into one application?

I have completed all the required training and YPT.

Thank you very much.

At least in my Council, merit badge Councilor and Assistant Scout Master require separate applications. Not sure why you would need a separate adult membership, if you're an MBC and an ASM.  

15 hours ago, MomWhoCamps said:

Not trying to stir the hornets' nest, but find it interesting that we're still posting issues having to do with girl troops in Issues and Politics and I'm musing about how this does (or doesn't) demonstrate that girls in scouting continues to be a controversial subject.  I just got back from a bridging ceremony in which we received three new female AoLs into our Troop.  The Scouts that received them were so proud to be representing their Troop and Scouts BSA.  These girls are so happy to have the opportunity to do the same things they've been watching their brothers do from the sidelines for years.

Why don't you start posting about girl issues in Open Discussion, then?  Is something stopping you from doing that?  

On 3/26/2019 at 11:58 AM, DuctTape said:

Even a full 15 minute cooking time is not that long, especially with a buddy or patrol. One cooks while the other packs up camp. Then eat together. Then the cook packs up while the buddy cleans up. The extra ten minutes is only 3 tenths of a mile walking. 

The difference is in fuel, not actual time.  

19 hours ago, ShutterbugMom said:

I am looking for suggestions for someone who may have encountered this before.  My son is a 3rd year, although he took a year off last year.  Anyway, he has very bad seasonal allergies, which we can deal with, but he is super sensitive to the campfire smoke.  He is very excited about Scouts now and wants to finish his Eagle, but needs 11 more nights of camping.  In the fall, he was a bonfire party on a Saturday and was so sick that he was out of school until Thursday.  He went to a camp out this weekend, and wasn't too bad when I picked him up in the late morning, but went rapidly downhill with a headache, sinus congestion, and fever over 100F.  Needless to say, he is home today.  I do not think the doctors believe me when I tell them this happens instantly...but it does.  Anyway, I was wondering if anyone has encountered a scout like this?  I am thinking he needs to avoid any campouts when it is cold so he can stay away from the fire.  Any other suggestions?  Thanks so much.

Has he tried Benadryl before he goes to bed at night? That and using a washcloth to wash any smoke that may get on his face.  Also, try Flonase, which I've found works well and was recommended by my doctor.

On 3/19/2019 at 6:54 PM, Tenderfoot7083 said:

@John-in-KC  It really doesn't matter. You can do the same things (food wise) with a cub scout pack that you can with a troop.

Only if every den has a stove, etc.  It's really a different situation.  Cooking for 50 is different than cooking for 8 groups of 6. 

On 3/12/2010 at 2:32 PM, bear dad said:

Hi, we are trying to plan for our pack camp out and would like to get a few ideals on the easiest, cheapest way to feed about 40-50 people if all show up?

Let me say that cost will some what a factor as pack will spend some, and probaly families will have a small cost aswell. We don't have enough funds within our pack, for the pack to flip the bill for this all together.

Someone has donated a bunch of hot dogs for trip as it was on sale and they could buy a lot fairly cheaply to help feed the packs.Which the pack could he other stuff, chips, etc. which could take of 1 meal. Need to mentioned it would a friday nite thru sunday after noon trip. families would have to eat before they left friday, probaly have a snack that night.

 

For the pure ease of cooking for all people,and everyone trying to get to eat close to same time, would something like tacos, which could be made fairly cheap be a way? Just wanted to get a ideal of what others have done in past.

Chili cookoff, where you get the parents of the Pack to provide the chili.  The Pack buys hotdogs. 

We generally would do lunch on buddy burner stoves--a large can (gallon?) with some venting done by an old fashioned canopener (that makes the triangular holes), and a cutout to put the buddy burner, which was a homemade candle, made with a spiraled piece of cardboard in a tuna (or small pineapple) can covered with paraffin.  Need 6 or 7 spatulas.  The Webelos II (now known as AOL) den was in charge of making the buddy burner stoves. Buy the frozen hamburger patties, and put them in a cooler the night before. 

We generally did breakfast either by dens or on their own. A lot of the dads wanted to break out their campstoves, and show their stuff.   When I was WDL, the Webelos made ziplock omelettes, which was a favorite of my oldest son. 

On 3/19/2019 at 10:30 AM, mrkstvns said:

if you're boiling water anyway, then it might not be too much of an imposition to just use regular grits and just leave on the pot on to boil a few minutes longer.

I like the idea of adding beef jerky (or bacon bits).  It might also be good to experiment with other things to add: diced hard cheeses, dry onion flakes, etc. 

Have you ever made grits?  You have to boil for at least 5 minutes for quick grits (15 minutes for regular grits). That and the cleanup make it impractical for backpacking.  

On 3/19/2019 at 9:03 AM, Jameson76 said:

That is true, but sometimes convenience trumps Paula Dean input (hey ya'll, we're gonna fry some butter in butter and it's gonna be delicious)

Actually they do sell an instant grits that comes in a self serve cup (you can get oatmeal also), just add water.  A little bulky on the outbound leg, but they compress down nicely for the trip back.  We add beef jerky to the grits and that is mighty tasty.  

No need for the paper cup. If you have a coffee cup or small bowl, put the packet into the cup (open the top of the packet), you can just pour water into the instant grits (or oatmeal)pack it, stir it up, and eat.  Much smaller waste.  I usually eat the grits first, then use the same cup for coffee.  

On 3/19/2019 at 8:57 AM, 69RoadRunner said:

"No self-respecting southerner eats instant grits."

-My Cousin Vinny 😀

Takes too much fuel to make real grits while backpacking.  If it's a choice between instant grits or instant oatmeal, southerners prefer instant grits.  

On 3/8/2019 at 8:49 PM, thrifty said:

This isn't your question but I thought I would share this.  Our CC does not destroy any of the forms when they are outdated.  She hand delivers those forms back to the parents.  It may seem like a small detail, any of these forms could be photocopied or the details could be written down but I think it shows responsibility and accountability for the details entrusted to her.  Maybe the parents care about the paperwork, maybe they don't, but they gave it to her and she gives it back so they can dispose of it instead of wondering or assuming that she did.

We did the same. Every year when the parents turned in a new form, we would return the old form.  I think that's part of what sets up a situation of trust.  

On 3/8/2019 at 8:30 PM, HelpfulTracks said:

I started writing a long story about an issue I had with parents not wanting to disclose. I decided to delete that and not to post the story even though no names were used. 

Long story short, I am accepting responsibility for their youth and others. Any medical condition that may effect that youth OR OTHERS around them, I need to know about. I may need to communicate that to other leaders as well. It is never discussed with other Scouts or parents. 

Beyond that, I keep the files in a locked box that has 4 keys which I distribute to other leaders in case of emergency. 

If you are trusting me to bring your child back home safely then you should trust me with their medical information and that I will keep in private. If you do not trust me to do that, then why on earth would your trust me with your child. 

There is one caveat that I have learned. It has never come up, but if it does I plan to handle it in the following manner.  If Scout X has a medical condition that could impact other Scouts, I have a discussion with the parents of Scout X. I would suggest we have a group meeting with other Scout parents. If they disagree, I tell them I would like to take it to the CO and/or Council to have a discussion about next steps. I've never had to do that so I am not sure what would happen from there. 

 

My thought as well about trust.  If you can trust me to supervise your son in a wilderness area at least three hours walk from a road, you should be able to trust me with their health information (and one of the leaders did carry that health info for the scouts present in their backpack).