Basementdweller

If you want one just go to the scout shop and buy it, it isn't restricted. Why do you need a patch to teach leave no trace. We hike and camp a lot. I use tore up mud trail and erosion as part of an example. I use the way they are dressed as an example. I never use the award as the carrot.

We have one in our area that is 200. May I suggest Splitting the Pack They have a negative impact on scouting in our district. They Do not participate in round table they violate many of BSA rules against bb shooting, Archery, Canoeing, and on and on. They do not participate in District Day camp or any District cub activities. We are Pack 123 you will listen to us because we are big and we represent 10% of the cub scouts in the district. Well let me tell ya I visited them to see what all of the fascination was about. I still don't have a clue. There pack meeting was 2 hours long, the program was handing out awards including belt loops. The boys were BORED. Went to a wolf den meeting where the boys were sharing their Collections. There was 15 boys in the den, 5-10 minutes a piece, it took 2 hours. The CM asked what I thought of HIS organization. So I told him that it was just too big. Of course he didn't like it. In my opinion the optimal number for a Pack is 40-60 youths, two dens at each rank.

Scoutfish Here is the issue Today he is a super guy, Active with his son and helping the Pack and den. Tomorrow word gets out he had a domestic violence issue, it is irrelevant what actually happened, he will be treated differently. Seen it happen. Depends on the location of the Pack too, Inner City, he will more likely be accepted. Suburbs if not asked to leave, treated in such a way they will leave. Small town, depends on whether he is a local or transplant.

It is understandable to sign off as unit leader, but to sign off as counciler and unit leader. Too much

This will not end well, I am going to bet that you will lose someone, either the recruited den leader or the self righteous who will not have their son exposed to a potential threat. We have lost families over background checks, "Sure I will be a den leader, why do you need my Social Security number? Background check, why do you need to do that? Ok, I will fill it out and bring back to the next meeting". That is the last time you ever see them or their son. I would drop the entire issue and let him remain ACTIVE DAD.

I hear of an Eagle Candidate coming before the eagle board. His Dad, the SM, Signed off absolutely everything the Scout did in scouting. Merit badges, rank requirements absolutely everything. Seen it first hand too, A boy in the Troop whose Dad is ASM is in the middle of doing exactly that currently. The SM is refusing to let Dad be a merit badge councilor for any more, the last couple he has referred him to another local councilor. The COR and CC are refusing to let the ASM sign up to council any more merit badges. While it is not prohibited for a Leader Parent to sign off their Scouts Requirement, I think it is bad mojo, I have heard too many unqualified boys earning their Eagle as SM son or Grandson. Even as a Webelo I will not sign my sons requirement and as the CM to review and sign off his Achievements.

Money making at this sort of thing is easy. Set up a snack bar.

In this round of Belt loops they added Hiking, Horseback riding and Disability awareness. Skateboarding??????? Rollerskating???????? Good Manners???????? Reading and Writing????? I am more bothered by a good manners belt loop than a video game belt loop. We are awarding the boys for something that should be a natural thing. You are upset with BSA trying to remain relevant in these boys lives. You need to remember that most of the young men in scouting are either Urban or Suburban. So are you mad about the Geocaching merit badge???? Geocaching is just as ridiculous as video games.

Thx NE, I like your letter an may cut and paste it in the future I have this discussion with tiger parents all to often. If they earn absolutely as a tiger what are they going to do for the next 3 or 4? I understand Pack associated with deployed soldiers and their needs. Single day events are musts. I respectfully disagree with Eagle92 saying a single day event should or can qualify. Again in perfect BSA methodology they leave too much room for interpretation. Humans are lazy by nature and this give Parents and underachieving Cub leaders the perfect out. Again I call to attention the Bear or Webelo Scout who has a shirt and Brag vest full of patches that they have no clue how they earned.(This message has been edited by Basementdweller)

I am interested, where is there more information.

Sebastian the Councils that support the scouts abroad. Makes sense now. I understand the need for the differences. With that said, you will find that questions of this nature in this forum are usually posted by parents looking for a short cut. As pointed out to Mrssand it is rare that a tiger earns the Outdoor activity award because in most instances Tigers do not attend traditional Day Camps as tigers, but as wolves.

I do not have a suggestion for a pocket unit. But I have an outstanding unit that I use when we camp, It does have a built in alarm clock. Reecom SAME Weather/Hazard radio. You can set it to alarm if your county receives weather warnings or alerts.

Sebastian, just curious what Council would that be.

I am in a district with out a functional committee. We have never had a district Pinewood derby, no biggy. I go to neighboring districts for my training, again no biggy. We do have an Eagle board, but it is a political mess, with horrible projects and specific organization benefiting from the projects. The political games and egos are to big to over come. I was recruited to join the committee and after a single meeting decided the cost of dealing with the group was too large. So how would you fix this district?

These are the first five links that camp up on a google search. All are multi day cub camps. http://www.crossroadsbsa.org/FunctionsofScoutingMenu/Camping/CubScoutDayCamp/tabid/152/Default.aspx http://saddlebackdaycamp.org/2010/index.htm http://www.ocbsa.org/site/c.khKQIWPBIoE/b.4010275/ http://www.fourriversdaycamp.org/index2.htm http://www.bsacac.org/CampingEvents/Camps_CubDayCamp.php http://www.cubscoutdaycamp.net/ And directly from national site. "Day camp is an organized, multiple-day, theme-oriented program for Tiger Cubs and their adult partners, Cub Scouts, and Webelos Scouts. Day camp is conducted by the council/district under trained leadership at an approved site during daylight or early evening hours. http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/CubScouts/resources/CubScoutOutdoorProgramGuidelines.aspx Like I said earlier, DO NOT short cut the requirements to GIVE your cub more bling. I always love a cub that has a shirt full of patches that he has no idea what they are or how he earned them.

I would like to see that Council policy in writing. I bet someone is leading you on. A single day event does not qualify for Day camp for the outdoor activity award. I do not believe the intent of the award was to award for a single day event. FYI When your scout completes 1st grade he is considered a wolf, second grade bear. It is rare that a Tiger goes to a REAL multiple day camp because they are required to have their parents attend with them. While I am not for adding requirements, I am all for actually doing the requirements instead of short cutting them. If you do it as a cub you end up with boys who enter boy scouts with funny expectations and usually will drop out.

I would make them adhere to the requirements as written. A question. Are these 11 year olds or 15 year olds.?????

I have ran into this exact problem and it is rampant thru scouting. Ran into a gentleman who had a Philmont Arrowhead hanging on his pocket. I enjoyed my philmont experience so I asked how his trek was and what kind of itinerary he had. Well they hiked 120 miles in their week while carrying 150 pound packs. We have all met the woodbadgers, well they have the woggle and the neckerchief, who don't remember their course number or Patrol name. If there is a Patch or Position in Scouting Someone is lying about having done it. I don't like them selling Jambo patches in advance of actual event. People are jerks.

Most BSA units do not file for a tour permit. I am involved with a number of units and everytime I mention tour permit they look at me side ways. What I do is every time I leave the Charter Organization I file for one. It takes a couple of minutes and I am covered. Don't make a bigger deal than it really is. I submit 20 days or so in advance. You must submit 14 days in advance on line.

KOA is cost. They limit the number of people per site and their quiet hours are not all that scout friendly. I have never taken a scout group to a koa, but as an adult I have been yelled at plenty at them, telling storys around the campfire.

More importantly the site must be approved by your council. The council should maintain a list of approved sites. If you stay at a scout camp, state or national park your more than likely ok. If you are planning on camping on someones farm or private property, the Tour permit will not get approved by our council, hopefully your council is different. here is the link to the campsite approval form from BSA http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/34-65.pdf I really dislike cases of bottled water and paper plates at these kind of events. My first Family campout we had 20 bags of garbage for 30 participants. I was really embarrassed and wondered what we were teaching our boys. Now we do not permit bottled water or paper plates at our events. Everyone brings a Plate/bowl, spork and a cup. Water, we haul water in 5 gallon jugs. We have hauled as much as 100 gallons. We have three 5 gallon jugs with spouts on them, two flavors of cool aid and one of regular water. We have taught our boys to reuse 32 ounce gator aid bottles for around camp. We went from 20 bags of trash to 2. Those were not full either, we got rid of them to avoid wildlife fun.(This message has been edited by Basementdweller)

Reaper, I think your short changing this boys scouting experience. Far as Council and national goes they could care a hill of beans about your scout. As noted the Rules are vague enough to be interpreted many different ways. If another adult is going to be responsible for him then all is good.

We have lots of parents deployed currently. Lots of grandparents raising grandkids. I think most of our pack are single parents. We do limit the scout parent ratio to 1 adult cannot be responsible for more than 3 boys and even then it depends on the boys. We simply cannot have our ADD/AHD crowd three to one, they can be tough enough one on one. Amazingly enough we have married couples where dad wants nothing to do with scouting. As a matter of fact, I drop a scout off after the meeting he lives three doors from my house and Dad is sitting on the couch in his underwear playing his xbox. Nice role model. He goes with us with out a parent because mom works 7 days a week and dad "isn't the outdoorsy type". BSA had to make the rules tight because if you didn't then you would end up with a DL camping with 12 boys alone. I have seen it a couple of times

The tiger cub date of joining brings up a valid argument. If a young man who just finished kindergarten can join tigers, that would mean the current tigers should be wolves. and so on. Just say in.

Scoutfish, What about all of the single parent family's out their, how about all of the grandparents raising boys who cannot camp because of health. Are we not going to let these young men participate in camping because of problems they did not create. Our solution. Is for a parent or leader, not the outing leader, to take responsibility for the scout. Tent the boys together. Problem solved. Tenting the boys together also eliminates the boyfriends of mom, uncle or neighbor issues with Youth protection. The young men we are discussing are the ones who need scouting the most. No non-scouting siblings with out parents period.(This message has been edited by Basementdweller)