BartHumphries

I think tennis shoes are great camp/outdoor shoes, but that's just me. Whatever floats your boat. I think "hiking shoes" were good back when people were really going "hiking" cross country, when you were walking through thistle patches or places where the landscape feels the same underfoot as a post-apocalyptic landscape covered in half-buried barbed wire. What with the general move to only camping/hiking on "established paths/campsites" and the increased emphasis on Leave No Trace rather than the more general Outdoor Code to leave things better than you found them, we're mostly walking on small grass or dirt paths. I've hiked a few miles in the Sierras barefoot just because I took my shoes off for some water and then the path after that for miles was well-trodden dirt -- I thought I'd walk until my feet were really dry and I just kept walking. But I digress. In the old days, hiking boots were a vital necessity because people really "hiked" (cross-country) and because "normal" shoes were Oxfords and two-tones and shoes that people nowdays only wear to church or as costume dress pieces or something. Tennis shoes today are half the weight and twice the comfortable padding as hiking boots. Walking around in a pair of good athletic shoes compared to hiking boots is like walking around on clouds compared to walking around with your feet in lead boxes. My $20 tennis shoes together weigh something like a pound -- they almost feel like ballet slippers but with plenty of extra padding. Unless I'm moving a refrigerator (or otherwise really really worried about something falling on my toes) or walking through the snow or something, I really don't see why I wouldn't wear athletic tennis shoes on a hike instead of canvas Converse shoes or solid leather pieces that breath like an old asthmatic smoker. To each his own, though, every man follows the beat of his own drummer and must step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away.(This message has been edited by BartHumphries)

"if you're not wearing the Scout uniform, you're not supposed to wear a Scout hat" "Says who? I think most uniforming issues happen when people make up rules." http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Media/InsigniaGuide/03.aspx "In any informal indoor activ�ity where no official ceremony is involved, the headgear is removed as when in street clothes." Again, though, I still sometimes wear a Scout hat when I'm not wearing any other part of the uniform, so I'm not castigating anyone for doing that (otherwise I'd be a bit hypocritical). Nobody's perfect. To give the full context: "Headgear Regulations Official headgear may be worn while the unit or individual is participating in an indoor formal ceremony or service duty, except in religious institutions where custom forbids. Typical indoor activities of this type are flag ceremonies, inspections, orderly duty, or ushering service. In any informal indoor activity where no official ceremony is involved, the headgear is removed as when in street clothes. The Scouter dress uniform is always worn without headgear. Pins may be worn on the jamboree hat but only while at the jamboree, and Webelos activity badges may be worn on the Webelos cap. As part of the First Class Emphasis, the large standard metal pin, No. �00017, has been reinstated as an option to the cloth First Class rank badge. The large pin also may be worn only by boys on the front of the campaign hat, No. �501, and the expedition hat, No. �637. Adults may wear the adult universal hat pin, No. �50150, on the campaign hat and the expedition hat. No other pins may be worn on official headgear of the BSA."

I have more than one shirt for summer camp -- I put a different temporary patch on each. It'd be cool if I could wear them all at once, but then my uniform would look like a big merit badge sash -- every square inch covered with patches. Basically, youth all pretty much look the same with their patches and all. Sure, you might have a different rank insignia, a different unit number, a different temporary patch etc., but the differences are pretty subtle (although you might have a rope thingy hanging from your epaulette, a quality unit patch, maybe even an arrow of light patch or OA patch or something, but all youth basically all look the same). It's pretty much only the adults that can really wear all their adult accomplishments all at the same time. I mean, look at the knots: 2 Cub Scout knots (youth religious knot earned as a Cub Scout and the Arrow of Light) A handful of Scout knots (Eagle, Venturing Silver, Quartermaster, Hornaday, youth religious knot, Medal of Merit, etc.) Then there's like x4 the number of adult knots compared to the Scout knots that basically all show how much experience/training you have doing whatever it is that you got the knot for (plus the two "make a donation" awards).

I'd just recharter him and not tell him. Seriously, rechartering is only $15. Add an extra dollar to add him to the insurance and you're all just fine. Normally, only registered/chartered people can attend or work at summer camp. A visitor could go, but they're literally just a visitor, they can't go have fun doing any of the activities -- they're just passive watchers. So, sure, he could attend as a visitor, but he already paid the full fee and the recharter fee is a pittance compared to the full summer camp fee. Then you're totally covered, paperwork, insurance-wise, there's no troubles on your side. As far as he knows, he's not rechartered, he can't really attend any other scouting activities until he actual rejoins, etc. However, ask your DE or someone in the Council office who can just look up his paperwork and tell you just when his registration expires and whether it'll even a problem or not (because registration doesn't expire just because he walks away, it always goes for the rest of the year he paid for).

So I've been working on putting together a compass course. I'm looking at two different "100 foot rope laid out along East-West axis, starting at the center origin pointing to the East with sections marked off in 5 foot increments" courses. I wanted an "easy" way to figure out how correct they were, so I put together the following Excel sheet. I'll just past the cell references, then the formulas in each cell. A1 degrees to point, using orienteering degrees (0 at the North, proceeding clockwise, 90 at the East, 180 at the South, 270 to the West) B1 feet to travel C1 the orienteering degrees changed into "regular" degrees,(0 at the East, proceeding counter-clockwise, 90 at the North, etc.) with the following formula: =IF(A1

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Media/InsigniaGuide/03.aspx states (among many other things), "Members should make every effort to keep their uniforms neat and uncluttered." I have many things that I've earned in Scouting that I'd love to show off, but only a few things go on the uniform -- mostly the things on the uniform are about the same for everyone. The uniforms aren't a brag vest, where you show off everything you've ever earned. Some awards go on swim trunks, some are actually sewn on equipment, some go on the uniform, most are just left at home. It's not a uniform police thing, or a desire to squash other people's fun. I mean, I don't wear the proper uniform all the time either. For instance, if you're not wearing the scout uniform, you're not supposed to wear a Scout hat, but occasionally I do wear my hat with normal clothes. "Consider displaying temporary insignia in ways other than on the official uniform. Here are some suggestions: "Wear it on a BSA red patch vest, campfire robe or blanket, or special neckerchief. "Display it on a wall plaque, trophy hide, or mounted in a frame. "Or, make a special neckerchief slide, sectional totem pole, or flagpole insignia for display." Whatever floats your boat though.

I used to send my clothes out to the local drycleaners... where I would then clean and press them. If I was still working there, I would seriously hate to see the new uniform shirt/pants come through -- a good deal more of a pain than the older pants/shirt. I also never creased patches.

If I'm going to be getting dirty, then a uniform during morning/evening flag ceremonies and dressing for dinner, with a non-uniform shirt all the rest of the time (since, seriously, non-uniform shirts are far easier to replace, both in pure cost and time to sew on patches). If I'm not going to be getting dirty, I'll just wear the uniform shirt all the time.(This message has been edited by BartHumphries)

Ugh, more difficult to iron shirts. Seriously, after a day or two in the pack, the shirts are going to look terrible and be difficult to iron when we get back home. I'm not sure why some people would want a ventilated back yoke. If you have a pack on your back or something else that covers your back then it doesn't matter whether it's ventilated or not, it's going to get wet. If your back is clear and free and there's nothing covering it, then it's going to stay dry unless it's so hot that you're profusely sweating all over (in which case a back vent really won't matter much). It does make it a real pain to iron, though. You take your shirt to the drycleaners and you're going to have net marks pressed into the top layer of the shirt, unless they just don't iron it at all (in which case you're going to slowly build up wrinkle marks). I'll bet that the Large size shirts (which seem most common for adults) still don't have pockets which are the same size as three knot patches lined up -- they'll probably still be a bit smaller so you either have to overlap the knot patches slightly or have them sticking out over the side edge of the pocket on one side or another (or both). The velcro on pockets is nice, but the backwards button is just weird. You're going to end up with a button imprint the very first time you iron the shirt (or have it pressed) and if you're one of those people who likes to iron their shirts like one of the other uniformed chaps (police, military, fire) with sharp creases down the middle of each front part and three down your back, those backwards buttons are going to mess up your front creases. I'm not sure why the front pants pockets, which have a flap over the top, have drain holes, while the side "hand" pockets (which have giant great cutouts in the top so that any moisture coming close to your body can easily get into them) don't have a way to drain other than dumping it all down the inside of your leg. I don't know why the gussets on the pants run all the way down the legs -- a gusset is meant to add more fabric right where you need it, where the fabric is "stretching" and "pulling". I.e., if you're going to put a gusset in the pants, you add it right into the underside of the crotch (for when people crouch down to pick up a heavy load or as they tighten a climbing belt or something) and taper it off as the legs start. Excellent sun protection? If the uniform was made out of a good material, then that wouldn't really be an issue. Does this increased sun protection come from additional stuff coated on the fibers or stuff sprayed on the uniform (which will either wear away with time or reduce the material's ability to breath)? BSA buckle with attached belt? Does that mean that all these BSA buckles and belts will be removed from the Scout store? No more belt leatherworking at summer camp? What's up with the stretch elastic on the backs of the pants? If hot steam is blown across those (from an iron or the drycleaners) it's going to destroy that elastic, which just makes the pants more difficult to iron nicely (not to mention it's really going to shorten the usable life of the pants, which might be the intention). I've worked as a clothes presser before in a drycleaners and the current uniform looks like it's going to fit into that "absolutely a royal pain" category (almost as bad as the worst item of all to press, a lady's pleated, form fitted light blouse).

One of the reasons I like the old uniforms is that they're so easy to iron. Turn the iron up hot, turn the steam on, spread the clothes out on the ironing board, swipe, swipe, they're done. The new clothes need a particular iron setting (not too hot), just barely hot enough to make any steam which just makes it more of a pain to iron the clothes (not to mention how difficult it is to get the new pants to lay flat for ironing). Now, if the new clothes never wrinkled, that'd be one thing, but they do. Seriously, try putting a Scout uniform into a pack you're taking out for a week and try to not have it wrinkle. I'm not complaining about that -- wrinkles in clothes when you're at an "outpost camp" or out on the trail are expected, normal, everyday events. The problem is when you get back home and you're trying to look sharp for a meeting. You've now had those wrinkles pressed into the clothes and it's a royal pain to get them out so that the fabric doesn't have sharply pressed wrinkles running through it.

I wonder if they have a version of Cub Scouting or if they just have nothing until you hit 15.

I went to wermy's website for the Chinese Scouts: http://sac.clubspaces.com/PageCustom.aspx?id=29&o=269194 Here's the important things that I saw: Scout Promise: On my honor I promise that I will do my best To do my duty to the President and to my Country (and to God*) - *for those who have a religion; To help other people at all times; To obey the Scout Law Do my Duty to the President (instead of God)? The God afterthought seems more like Girl Scouts than Boy Scouts -- something just put in to conform to the World Organization of the Scout's requirement that a member organization require their members to believe in God, in line with how Scouting was originally created by Baden Powell. Scout Law: ... 7. A Scout obeys orders of his parents, Leader or Scoutmaster without question. ... (there are 10 points) A person could say that their version of Scouting hearkens back more to the original paramilitary origins of Scouting then ours currently does (see the Siege of Mafeking and then later during World War I). Scouts are either Venturers or Rovers. Venture Scout Unit (Venture Scouts, Venture Sea Scouts, Venture Air Scouts): Age 15 to 20, minimium number of youth members is 12. A person may be a Venture Scout Leader (or Assistant) from 21 to 64. Rover Crew: Age 18 to 25, minimum number of "youth" members is 6. A person may be a Rover Scout Leader (or Assistant) from 25 to 64. They have Groups, Districts, Regions, where we have Districts, Councils, Regions. Their Districts are not autonymous in any way like our Councils are.

"How long before the pinewood derby gives way to a cookie making contest?" Wait, what's wrong with a cookie making contest? As long as nobody has a problem with people eating dough while they make cookies, it's a really fun activity -- everyone loves raw cookie dough, right?

Wait, I'm not sure I understand the OP. At first he decrys merit badges that can be earned in a week, then he's upset because more merit badges weren't earned in a week, then he says that merit badges at camp should be earned in a week?

There's a swimming merit badge book?! The mind boggles... just kidding. Anyway, merit badge books offer a how-to, tips & practices, and ideas for activities. If you're already an expert in a subject, then you may not ever need the merit badge book, although real experts know that there's always more to learn about their subject.

Eagle Court of Honor ceremonies are like church worship ceremonies. There's all sorts of different clothes and words and orders and meanings associated with different groups "standard" ceremony. Here are some ready-made ones if you'd like some more help: http://www.eaglescout.org/finale/coh/coh.html Otherwise, just kick back with the Committee and come up with something you all like.

What's TLT again? Troop Leader Training?

I wondered about that, Scouts in Muslim countries, so I went out looking. The official Bangladesh Scouting site mentioned following the Scout Oath or Law, but didn't say what they thought those were. http://www.bdscouts.8m.net/ (an unofficial site) does list the Oath and Law. The 2nd point is, "A Scout is a friend to all." Hopefully, this means our money is supporting a program that helps prevent terrorists. I guess a terrorist cell could reorganize itself as a Scout troop, but I really don't think that happens with any degree of regularity.

Well, it was actually Mike Rowe's idea. Strangely enough, the Guide to Safe Scouting has nothing to say about ostrich wrangling, despite their known ability to literally rip a truck door off its hinges.

On the previous page, someone said that a name change wasn't necessary, they should just tweak the logo with a more masculine rainbow. I replied: I'm curious, what would a "more masculine rainbow" look like? Well, the image of a "more masculine rainbow" (based on Trogdor, I presumed) just wouldn't leave until I made this to share it with you all. http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a66/bubbajoe12345/scout/RainbowWarrior.png Trogdor! I mean Raindor! Raindor the Burninator, I mean the Rainbinator, Rainbinating the countryside... Raindor! If that's not funny to you, then you aren't one of the millions who's seen the original Strongbad email regarding Trogdor on HomestarRunner.com All the Council has to do to make the name "Rainbow Council" more attractive to youth is to have fun with it. If they take themselves deadly seriously, then people are going to keep making fun of them. If they are the first to make fun of themselves then suddenly what was a weak point becomes a source of strength to them. Instead of trying to hide the rainbow in the tail of a shooting star or whatever, they should embrace it. No, I'm not advocating that they should become the Pretty, Pretty Princess Council, they should push the rainbow the other way into ludicrously "manly" positions, like the Marine from the old Doom video game shooting a short rainbow burst from his gun while an alien on the receiving end writhes in pain or something. They should go with something so ridiculous that the youth we want to get into Scouting can't help but laugh and say something around their chuckles like, "Dude, that's awesome!"(This message has been edited by BartHumphries)

So I just listened to Mike Rowe's speech at the 2010 Jamboree at Online Video Platform (starts about 3 hours 8 minutes in). You may have heard of him, he's that guy on that Dirty Jobs show. He put up a Scouts in Defense of Dirt at http://www.mikeroweworks.com/2010/07/boy-scouts-in-defense-of-dirt/ So, what would a Dirty Jobs merit badge actually look like? The thought of one reminds me of that Duct Tape merit badge: http://www.dtmb.gobot.com/ Seriously, though, what would a Dirty Jobs merit badge entail?

If you want clarification from a source which isn't the guy you disagree with, why not just ask your question?

"If you look at the rainbow on the Rainbow Council CSP, that looks like it's a good representation of what a masculine rainbow might look like." For those of us on the other side of the country, can you give a link to what it looks like? http://www.rcscouts.org/ has a shoulder patch on the top of the page, but the image seems pretty grainy and the "rainbow" looks to me like it only has two colors. With the star on one end, it looks to me like the trail of a "shooting star", not a rainbow.

This is how I've divided up the requirements into related sections. Each section would take either 30 minutes or an hour, which leaves us time to teach and practice (play some game to practice). Cooking is going to take longer though and requires boys to work with their patrol -- you have to both be an assistant to someone else cooking and you have to be the person in charge, so likely will require multiple meals. Citizenship/Computers -- should probably be Eagles Nest 1st Class 5: Visit someone and discuss your constitutional rights and obligations as a US citizen. Our camp is in a city with no elected officials, controlled totally by the County. There are four high schools in the area, though and a history teacher from one would probably be interested in coming out and talking once a week in exchange for a free lunch. One of the area directors is also a registered/licensed lawyer. 1st Class 11: Internet Safety, describe cyberbully and how to respond Swimming -- should probably be Aquatics 2nd Class 8a: Tell what precautions must be taken for a safe swim 1st Class 9a: Ditto, but afloat (canoe/kyak/raft, some type of boat) 2nd Class 8b: pre-Swimmer test -- skip this for next one? 1st Class 9b: Swimmer test 2nd Class 8c: Demonstrate how to rescue someone, reaching, avoiding contact 1st Class 9c: Actually go rescue someone 30' from shore in "deep water" -- has to be the lake, the pool is neither big enough nor particularly "deep" Nature -- should probably be Nature Tenderfoot 11: Identify local poisonous plants, tell how to treat for exposure 1st Class 6: Identify/show evidence of at least 10 kinds of wild animals in the community. First Aid -- should probably be the First Aid people Tenderfoot 12a: Demonstrate care for choking Tenderfoot 12b: Show first aid for simple cuts/scrapes, blisters, minor burns/scalds, bites/stings (and ticks), venomous snakebite, nosebleed, frostbite/sunburn 2nd Class 7a: What to do for hurry cases of stopped breathing, serious bleeding, ingested poisoning 2nd Class 7c: Demonstrate first aid for object in eye, bite of suspected rabid animal, puncture wounds, serious burns, heat exhaustion, shock 1st Class 8b: Demonstrate bandages for sprained ankle, injuries to head/arm/collarbone 1st Class 8c: Show how to transport (solo and with another) person from smoke-filled room and a sprained ankle victim for 25+ yards 1st Class 8d: Tell 5 most common signs of heart attack, explain steps for CPR Camping/Leave No Trace (BSA LNT 101 is 3 hours and the Awareness Course is only 30 minutes, but the BSA requirements are in the midst of being revised, though -- 101 may be required later. I am a LNT trainer, but we have a Master Educator who's taught a good portion of the trainers in Southern CA at camp -- she has more experience educating.) Tenderfoot 1: Be all ready to camp, dressed, show gear, how to pack/carry it 2nd Class 2 (note also 1st Class 3): Discuss Leave No Trace principles Tenderfoot 2 & 2nd Class 3b: Select patrol site, sleep in tent you pitched, how to choose site, where to pitch Cooking -- some needs to be done with their patrol -- this is the biggest section by far. First, do Totin' Chip Tenderfoot 3: On a campout, assist in preparing/cooking one meal, why important to share prep/clean, eat together 2nd Class 3e: When/how to use a fire/stove and be safe 2nd Class 3g: while camping, plan/cook one hot breakfast/lunch, use food pyramid, tell about good nutrition, how to transport/store/prepare food. 1st Class 4a: 2nd Class 3g but also includes a hot dinner 1st Class 4b: Using that menu, make a list showing cost/food amounts, get ingredients -- may not be able to do in camp, where to get ingredients from? 1st Class 4c: Tell what you need to cook/serve that menu 1st Class 4d: Explain how to safely handle/store fresh meat/dairy/egg/vegetables/other, how to properly dispose of garbage/cans/whatever 1st Class 4e: Be the cook, supervise your assistants in using stove (or fire), prepare the three meals from that menu, lead patrol in saying grace, supervise cleanup -- if we do this one, menus may need to be created before coming to camp -- a boy has to be the cook and supervise which means a given patrol can't get more than 5 or 6 boys through this part in a week. A large patrol or an LDS 11-year old Scout troop can't get this done at camp. Hiking/Orienteering -- note the 1-mile orienteering course and the 5-mile hike Tenderfoot 5: Explain safe hiking highway/cross-country day/night, what to do when lost Tenderfoot 9: Explain buddy system (outings and about town), what's a bully, how to respond 2nd Class 1a: Demonstrate how a compass works, orient a map, what do symbols mean? 2nd Class 1b: Using a compass/map, take a 5-mile hike 1st Class 1: Demonstrate how to find directions day/night without compass 1st Class 2: Use map/compass, complete one-mile orient. course, measure heights/widths Scout Spirit Tenderfoot 7: Repeat, from memory, the Scout Oath, Law, motto, slogan Tenderfoot 8: Know your patrol name, give patrol yell, describe patrol flag 2nd Class 5: Participate in one hour (minimum) service project Flag Ceremony -- put the "Trail to First Class" Scouts completely in charge of a mid-week ceremony so they can learn about how to do it and see it done right by others first. Tenderfoot 6: Demonstrate how to raise/lower/fold/display the American flag 2nd Class 4: Participate in flag ceremony Personal Fitness Tenderfoot 10a: Record best in best in push-ups, pull-ups, sit-ups, standing long jump, 1/4 mile walk/run 2nd Class 9a (first part only): Participate in program on the dangers of using drugs, alcohol, tobacco, and other practices that could be harmful. I spoke with a Deputy at the local Sheriff station who's looking into the feasibility of bringing out one of those drug kits with actual drugs each week if we give him lunch -- I can see this being one of the more highly attended events each week if that's the case (purely for the titillation, but then we try to coat all our learning exercises in ice cream to entice people to want to do them) 2nd Class 9b: Explain 3 R's of personal safety/protection Pioneering Tenderfoot 4a: Demonstrate how to whip/fuse ends of a rope Tenderfoot 4b: Demonstrate how to tie two half hitches, taunt-line hitch, why tie them Tenderfoot 4c: Using EDGE, teach another person to tie the square knot 1st Class 7a: Discuss when you should/shouldnt use lashings, demonstrate timber hitch, clove hitch, how to tie square/sheer/diagonal lashings 1st Class 7b: Lash together a useful camp gadget 1st Class 8a: Demonstrate how to tie a bowline, whats it good for Totin' Chip 2nd Class 3c: Demonstrate proper care/sharpening/use knife/axe/saw 2nd Class 3d: Use knife/axe/saw to prepare kindling for a cooking (very small) fire 2nd Class 3f: demonstrate how to build a fire and set up a stove (no lighting) NOT COVERED: Tenderfoot 10b: Repeat 10a a month later and show improvement 2nd Class 3a: Since joining, go on 5 separate troop/patrol activities (other than normal meetings), two of which include camping overnight. 1st Class 3 -- partially fulfilled by 2nd Class 3a if you make sure that all activities/campouts follow LNT principles. 2nd Class 7b: Prepare personal first aid kit to take on a hike -- where to get materials? Buy from store? That could get expensive, should probably be done on the Scout's own time. 2nd Class 9a (second part): Discuss with family what you learned and explain the dangers of substance addictions. 2nd Class 10: Earn an amount of money agreed upon by you and your parent, saving at least 50% of it 1st Class 4e: If they're a large troop of Scouts who haven't done this yet. 1st Class 10: Tell non-scout or inactive scout about what your troop does, invite the person to join you while doing something, tell him how to join/come Also not covered: Tenderfoot 13: Demonstrate Scout Spirit by living Oath/Law in everyday life. Discuss 4 new examples of how you lived the Law in your daily life. 2nd Class 11: Same thing but 4 new examples 1st Class 12: Same thing but 4 new examples And of course the Scoutmaster conferences and boards of review which is none of our business.

I think there's a huge difference in a war between destroying infrastructure and killing thousands of unarmed civilian non-combatants. Those guys who stole the General even picked up 11 Confederate soldiers along the "regularly scheduled route". I haven't seen any mention of the Union soldiers killing those Confederate soldiers that boarded the train, just some property damage. I think that's about as honorable a war as anyone could likely expect -- a far, far cry from the September 11th attacks.