BartHumphries

I already could wear devices on a knot -- I earned my Youth Religious award as a Cub Scout then again as a Boy Scout. I hate pins, though, I'm not going to wear them no matter how many times I've earned the same award doing different requirements.

I think boys are too unaware of their own mortality to be scared by something like a warning of possible hantavirus infection in mice. (This message has been edited by BartHumphries)

Look at the map OldGreyEagle linked: https://summit.scouting.org/en/Documents/35005035-The-Bechtel-Summit-Phase-1-Plan-In-Progress.pdf There's a part in the middle marked National Scout Centre HQ. That's probably where they'll be hanging out most days. They'll probably sleep in the nearby adult cabins like most adult staff.

You're probably about as likely to "convert" someone for or against the OA as you are to convert someone to your faith on these boards. So, it's time to put this issue to bed. Go find out what your church believes. If they are anti-OA, then don't join OA. If they don't care or are pro-OA, then make up your own mind. Bear in mind, the official stance of most churches is "We don't care" so you'll likely be making up your own mind. I recommend asking other people who are the same faith as you, because you'll be more likely to start with a common ground, a common interpretation of the scriptures, etc. Some churches are completely anti-Freemasonry, for instance, others just don't care. (Not that the OA is necessarily akin to the Freemasons, I'm just using them as an example of how some churches really care about things that other churches couldn't give a hoot about.) Go ask the people in your church, but if you haven't been to church for a while or are just unsure about what your church believes, go to the following websites (listed by total number of Scouts in the CO): Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints: No website and no official stance, but there are a lot of "Mormons" in the OA. Methodist: http://www.umc.org No official stance, but there are a lot of Methodists in the OA. Roman Catholic: http://forums.catholic.com/forumdisplay.php?f=12 No official stance, but there are a lot of Catholics in the OA. Presbyterian: No website and no official stance, but there are a lot of Presbyterians in the OA. Lutheran: http://www.alpb.org/forum/index.php?board=8.0 No official stance, but there are a lot of Lutherans in the OA. Baptist: No website and no official stance, but there are a lot of Baptists in the OA.

Personally, I think this is the problem that most non-LDS Scouters have with LDS Scouters. I think most LDS troops are just fine, but being the largest CO (albeit by only one and a half percentage points), having only a small amount of bad experiences with LDS Scouters might turn off those non-LDS Scouters who have only experienced the unfortunate tip of the iceberg.

So how in the world do you know who they are and where they are from, no one had a scout shirt on and I don't remember seeing a troop number on any t shirts or council strips. How do you know they were Scouts?

That's too bad that some Scouts asked you to leave the shelter, Beavah. I like to think that, in a similar situation, I would have asked if I could have shared the shelter with you. I like to think that, if the situation had been reversed, that I would have sought you out to see if you wanted to use the (only?) shelter to cook in with us. I haven't been in that situation yet, though. I wouldn't want some stranger pitching his tent in the middle of my Scouts tents, but cooking dinner is another story -- in an established camp site the cooking area shouldn't be right smack up against the tents anyway, there should at least be some separation, based on historic use of the camp site, etc., insert disclaimer here.

Speaking as someone who had the chance to instruct hundreds of kids this summer, (and in other years as well) here's what I've found. Generally, if you teach to the lowest level, with the idea that "no child will be left behind" you'll barely manage to get the essentials in and most kids will be standing around bored, because most kids are faster than the slowest kid. Generally, if you teach to the highest level, then more kids master whatever it is that you're teaching and you can then assign them to work with the slower kids. I don't think anyone will argue with the idea that "more teachers is generally a better learning environment" and that teaching something to someone else is the best way to really cement what you've learned. Generally, when teaching to the highest level, the end result is that everyone will get the essentials and that some will go above and beyond and really master the subject, gaining a greater depth of understanding and ability to put into practice than they could possibly have had if you were teaching to the lowest level. The California Teacher's Association and the National Education Association generally agree with this as well.(This message has been edited by BartHumphries)

Some people have this quaint thing they play called The Game and they have a few rules for it: 1. Everyone is playing. No consent is required and everyone is playing (albeit most don't know that they're playing). 2. When you think about The Game, you lose. 3. When you lose, you must announce and make everyone else in earshot lose as well. The best thing to do for this game is to refuse to play. Consent is required -- the quaint notion that some people have regarding this game is humorous but ultimately not of any real concern. The Prisoner's Dilemma can be "solved" by one of two possible strategies, depending on whether the "points" are valuable. If points are valuable, then the robot studies suggests that an initially altruistic strategy which then chooses whatever the opponent did the last time with some chance of forgiveness generally leads to the best overall strategy. If however points are not valuable, such as when playing in a social group such as a church or Scout or work setting, the best choice is to recognize that the "points" are not valuable, to have one member of your party hold up an "I'll agree to whatever" sign or a "consensus" sign or whatever sign is more altruistic, then play something else -- hopefully someone brought a deck of cards so that you can all play poker or something that everyone in your party finds equally enjoyable. Winning isn't everything and in a setting like this, if playing the game becomes rancorous, one should simply stop playing so as to increase the spread of harmony. Let someone "win". It's pretty meaningless, after all. Perhaps some Wood Badge instructors would benefit from learning about either the Stanford Prisoner experiment or the Milgram experiment (as appropriate)? Anyway, I object to the idea that Wood Badge isn't calling this "game" what it really is, and isn't explaining the history of and studies around the Prisoner's Dilemma. Wood Badge is for adults. Adults should get the real unvarnished ("unrenamed") message.

The same people that enforce the old rules?

I did consider that it was all a joke, but I was not the only person asking about this letter and they all, after repeated questioning, said that they really were serious. I don't think they'd really be into a multi-day practical joke of this nature on the whole camp. That being said, I just have their word on it.

To start with I tell someone else where I'm going and when I plan on being back.

Bart, Please tell me you are joking about no more pirates?!?!?!?!?! In June 2011, I was at National Camp School at Lost Valley in Warner Springs, California, for Outdoor Skills Director. The people who were there for either Camp Commissioner or Program Director (the people in charge of setting up our campfire) swore up and down that they had all been given a letter from National which strictly forbade pirates from campfires, etc., since pirates are too violent. I did not see the letter myself, but they all said that they were certain that it really had come from National. I was fairly disgusted with this myself, as I really don't like "hidden" rules that can surprise a person, but those types of decisions are not my call to make.

I just finished my LNT Master Educator course and the subject of Wood Badge came up. I was astounded to hear that Wood Badge courses have apparently taken the Prisoner's Dilemma and renamed it the Game of Life. Some quick references: Prisoner's Dilemma: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner%27s_Dilemma Game of Life: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conway%27s_Game_of_Life I understand why Wood Badge might use the Prisoner's Dilemma, because it demonstrates that people may not cooperate because they don't know whether they can trust the other person to also cooperate, because the other person might be more greedy, the payoff is larger for the noncooperative party if one party cooperates, etc. It can teach us a lot about our motives, how we think, even what and why we value. But why is Wood Badge trying to rename it the Game of Life? That's going to bar people from reading or learning more about it because when they chat about the Game of Life, people who haven't been to Wood Badge aren't going to have the faintest idea of what these Wood Badgers are lolling about. One person that I spoke with had not had a good experience with the game -- apparently the story behind it and the rationale behind it had not been explained very well. The Wood Badge participants that I spoke with were apparently unaware of the rich history of this game and the many things that have been done with it. I just feel that if the history of the game and the real name of the game had been given that the educational opportunities which can result from actually playing the game in an iterated group setting could have been increased.(This message has been edited by BartHumphries)

"Well golly gee whiz, Mr. Scoutmaster, are there any other secret rules and regulations I need to know about?" This was in reference to the "demonstrate/acquire proficiency/master requirement of a merit badge and whether they have to master something instead of just demonstrate it like the merit badge book says, but there are plenty of "hidden" rules in Scouting, such as the ban on pirate jokes and pirate references in a campfire. "What's a pirates favorite letter? Arrr!" I was shocked when I learned at National Camp School that National had apparently sent out a letter saying that pirates were banned from campfires because they're "too violent". This would just be the kids first lesson in unwritten rules and hidden regulations that all need to be followed.

I go with retreat. Retreat is an orderly march back to where they came from. There's no shame in retreating, just retreating disorderly. Dismissed on the other hand means, well, they're dismissed -- they could go walk in any direction they want because they're now no longer part of the Color Guard.

2k+ per person is a lot of money -- that'd pay for like a solid summer of normal summer camp. We could hit a different summer camp each week for an entire summer and still have money left over for other activities for 2k/person. For that much money, we could all get SCUBA certified, get all our gear, buy an old 30' blue water boat, all the food and water and sail to Hawaii and back. My brother bought a 27-footer a few years ago for $2.5k and it required a lot of sanding and fiberglass restoration, several days spent scrubbing, but with a troop to work on it it'd only be 5-6 full days. I think the boat market is more depressed -- completed listings on eBay are showing around that much for a 30-footer and for an extra thousand or so I might be able to get another 5-10 feet. If the draw is meeting people from other countries, I can see that -- I love meeting people as much as anyone else. For that amount of money, though, we could actually travel to Europe and backback across most of it over the summer instead of spending a single week in whatever US state this Summit place is in. Seriously, would you rather go backpack across Europe over multiple weeks or go backpack on part of the Appalachian Mountain Trail for less than a week? 2k+/person is a heck of a lot of money to blow for a week. I wouldn't mind going to a national jamboree, but not for that price. Not even for half that price.

"I'm not sure how my post could be interpreted to say that." Yes, I already said that I put in the wrong name. I'd change it, but the edit time on these posts is rather short.

OldGreyEagle, some people say that adult Scouters should camp 300 feet from young Scouts, so that they're really using the patrol method and not relying on adults. You're right, Kudu, that boy could have been told to go in his pants instead of out behind a tree, but young kids often don't bother trying to go until they really have to go. What would you suggest having him do? Anyway, it was the 90's.

Get with the 21st century, Bart. Allowing boys to go off into the woods when the latrines are full is not "inclusive." Camp Woodruff banned the practice last summer when the teenage girl staffers complained. Kudu, I did say that it was a church campout. There were no girls/women to complain about it not being inclusive.

We have a new adult volunteer who's about to start with us. The only problem is that he mainly only speaks Spanish. Is there an online Spanish version of Youth Protection? I did find: http://www.scouting.org/sitecore/content/HispanicInitiatives/Resources/training.aspx "Youth Protection Guidelines (video and leader's guide), No. 94-126 Available at NDC This is the Spanish-dubbed translation of the full-length Youth Protection Training for Leaders." What in the world is NDC? I also found a link to: http://www.scouting.org/sitecore/content/HispanicInitiatives/Resources/YPTraining.aspx Is that official? If someone has internet access but doesn't have a printer in their home, is there any way to save that you completed the class? I'm not seeing the Spanish language link on MyScouting.org

It depends. Is it a Scouting activity or an activity by your Chartering Organization which was put together and staffed by people who happen to be Scouters? It sounds like it was advertised as a Scouting activity, so you should follow your Council's rules.

I guess the short answer is, "Ask your Chartering Organization -- if they're ok with it then go with whatever you like because the BSA has no official policy on it."

Who's Scoutmaster Terry?

You know how some people think the Washington Redskins football team should change its name and logo? I think it's something like that. I haven't heard that the people whose culture we're appropriating are complaining about the OA. As far as I know, the OA is on good terms with local Native American tribes, at least Deer Run seems to be on good terms with them and they're an exclusively OA group. Please correct me if I'm wrong.