Mike F

Great input!

Thanks!!

Mike

The Lodge I serve has fallen into strange times and it appears to me without significant cheerful service, we're not achieving the brotherhood.

At present, all of our Ordeals are conducted as separate events with usually only the minimum elangomats also doing service. We have two annual Lodge events - one is a PowWow (with no Ordeal and no other service) and one is a Fellowship (also no Ordeal, half-day service project for members), but this is so poorly attended it has at times been cancelled.

In short, almost all of our real service is being conducted by Ordeal candidates and without the benefit of seeing fellow Arrowmen working nearby. This results in a kind of forced-labor feeling and misses out on the benefit of fellowship with other members at the end of the day on Saturday. Most new Ordeal members cant wait for the weekend to be over and never want to have anything at all to do with the OA except for wearing the lodge flap, of course.

Back in my youth in another Lodge, we knew our local Scout Camp depended on our service and we had good results keeping members involved.

I'm interested to know if this is a local phenomenon, or are other Lodges experiencing the same problems.

One minor exception to OA service is that we do a fairly good job of supporting Pack AoL ceremonies, but this only involves a small number of committed members. I dont count OA election teams as service, since that activity is self-serving.

Any ideas on some meaningful service opportunities you have seen work in recent years with your Lodge?

Thanks!

Mike

Lisabob,

I see your points. You've worked it in the troop, so it's time to elevate. Commish Staff and DE will certainly care about the large numbers of boys leaving the program. There are always multiple sides to every story, but it might be worth a few quick phone calls to the departed parents (if there are any you're not certain about), then presenting some solid information about the extent of the problem and its impact on retention.

I found your insights on size of the troop useful. Many people mistakenly assume that large troops must be better because so many flock to join. In my District, the largest troops have a much-higher attrition rate (by percentage) of new scouts. Unfortunately this information is embarrassing to the big "flagship" troops, so its never publicized. On average, smaller troops have much greater success at keeping scouts in the program, but theyre starved for new members by the neighborhood gorillas.

I'm not recommending you take it on, but maybe someone can find some new leadership to stand up a new troop so there are more local alternatives. My younger brother transferred into a new startup at your son's age and excelled in the new, challenging environment.

Your mileage may vary.

YIS,

-mike

(This message has been edited by Mike F)

Lisabob,

I would definitely have a quiet conversation with SM about the bullying issue. Boy Scouts is supposed to be a safe haven. The troop I serve has zero-tolerance toward bully-like behaviour. At the best, that results in an immediate SM Conference. At the worst, it's an immediate ticket home from any activity at any time. Results: Expectation is crystal clear and we almost never have problems. This is even with patrols grouped from brand new guys to 17 yrs old.

Your culture could change too if the SM and other adults saw the need for it.

BTW - I've been there myself. I dropped out of scouts in less than a year due to bullying. After adults made some changes, it changed the troop drastically and the worst bullies weren't having their brand of fun and dropped out. I came back and prospered - leading to a lifetime of joy in scouting.

I know your son says he doesn't want to join another troop, but how much does he know about other units? Even if he says he isn't interested, you could go check out a few to see if it looks like there might be a better fit for him. It wasn't due to bullying, but my older son made the change this way. I found a couple of contenders without him (and without his knowledge of what I was doing), then convinced him to go back with me to check them out. The first was a big thumbs down, but he liked the second, joined, and never looked back.

Good luck! It's all worth fighting for!

-mike

Ive been running high-adventure trips for years. Age is always a factor because younger scouts have better chance of getting in on future opportunities. (Its also an incentive for older scouts to stay involved, but thats a secondary factor.)

I also require scouts to be active in the troops program. If they arent attending meetings and supporting troop campouts, they dont get the opportunity to take part in the best stuff we have to offer.

SM and Crew (trek) Adult Advisor must also approve every member of the crew. I ran into some static over this a few years ago. After long discussions with senior leadership at Philmont, they assured me their written requirements pertaining to health and advice on other factors were the bare minimum and they expected the adult leadership to ensure every scout had a good chance of successfully completing the trek. Judgment is required in some cases and they made it crystal clear the advisor is in a better position to make the call based on their direct experience working with the scout. Mental and physical disabilities must be considered, in addition to discipline and Scout Spirit. (Note: These are challenging to work, but things ALWAYS get tougher under stress in the field, so you need to consider them before you hit the trail.)

Dont count out your aged-out Scouts! A 19-yr old college Eagle was excited to take the place of a dad who had to drop out of our trek last summer. (He and the rest of the guys had a blast.) Well have at least three 18-yr old Eagles with us this summer who are looking forward to their last big trip before starting college.

Last note: Its a very good idea to have a waiting list and to include those guys in the training and preparation activities. We have someone cancel at the last minute almost every summer.

Have a blast!

-Mike

Joe,

Congratulations - you're doing fine!

The comments you've received on keeping it as active as possible are right on. After being in school all day, boys don't want to spend more time sitting in a class.

Another idea on improving overall discipline is to discuss it in a PLC. I've found most older scouts find the disruptions from less mature scouts very annoying. Work out a plan to get all of your leaders actively involved in maintaining discipline. Patrol Leaders are the first line of defense and need to be responsible for their members at all times. But it's very powerful when all the older scouts send the message that this behaviour is unacceptable. They don't have to be harsh - just send the message that "we don't act like this in our troop." By presenting a unified front, you can change behaviour very quickly. The SM and other adults will be overjoyed to support you in this effort.

Keep up the great work!

-mike

Amen to my friend, 1Hour's, last point. Don't stress about this too much. Keep it neat and safe, but don't overwork everyone trying for the ideal campsite.

For the Boy Scout leaders out there, although we tend to think about Webelos Woods as a Webelos Camporee (i.e., skill competition), our real mission isn't about scoring events, it's about introducing a bunch of Webelos to the excitement of being a Boy Scout. Keep it fun and keep it positive! We want every Webelos (and parent) in attendance to look forward to coming across the bridge to join a Boy Scout troop as soon as they are allowed.

-mike

Our troop first aid kit has all the standard OTC meds mentioned above.

To keep them current, two TC members (an RN and a Med Tech) go through it and update at least once a year. Whenever we use something, we let them know so they can check stock after we return.

We have BSA med form on each scout and adult - even if they do not regularly take meds for particular condition. The form is annotated to clearly state we have authority to administer these OTC meds as we deem necessary, except as noted by the parent.

At the end of the campout, we let the parents know we gave Johnny some Tylenol for a headache last night (along with a liter of gatorade) or Timmy some ibuprofin for a painful knee, etc.

Because we participate in a lot of backpacking, etc., we require all scouts and adults to have current BSA Class III physical on file. A medical notebook goes with the leader of every activity. In the front is a summary of all members with special needs: allergies (drug, food, other), routine med requirements, and known medical conditions (ADHD, etc.) and what these mean in terms of limitations and possible problems.

For scouts with special prescription drug needs, the parents send only enough for the trip along with written instructions. One of the attending adults is in charge of handling these. As the boys get older, we encourage the parents to work toward the time when boy can handle it himself, but never to send more than required for the trip.

Since you asked for lessons learned, we used to be more cavalier about it until scout on some pretty heavy-duty mood control meds had some major issues on a couple of campouts. Worst part of this was his parents chose to not disclose his condition and medications, so we had no idea what was going on when he forgot to take the meds. Now were very up-front when they join we need that Class III and full disclosure so we can best help every boy.

There's another possible down-side to mega-troops that hasn't been discussed: retention rates.

Visiting Webelos parents almost always ask (in one way or another) about the troop's Eagle count, but I've never heard them ask how many incoming scouts are still in scouting after a year or two.

I recently got the numbers from our DE which showed clearly all the mega-troops in our district were routinely losing over 25% of their scouts per year. When you break down the numbers, over 60% of the new guys have dropped out within 2 years. I've talked to many of those parents and heard the usual "scouting wasn't for Billy; he decided to concentrate on sports/school/band; etc.," but I've also heard from many who said their son was lost in the chaos and never felt like he fit in. I agonize over the belief that most of those boys would have been better served in a smaller troop.

Again, per DE's records, many of our small/medium-sized troops had losses in the single digits and all were significantly better than the megas.

Parents look at the mega-troop and automatically believe it must have a great program because it's so big. (I know - I made this assumption with #1 son. As he was in process of dropping out after a year, we found another troop which was a better fit.) There are advantages, like lots of program opportunities, but it's not all better and definitely not the best fit for every boy.

In the current 35-member troop I serve, we do limit the number of incoming scouts each year to keep us around that number. For Horizon, yes - we will make room for one more boy, but we cannot make room for 3 complete WebII dens who want to join together late in the game. It has caused some hard feelings, but there are plenty of other troops hungry for new members, so they have lots of options.

I think these numbers I referenced above should be discussed at Roundtable so we can all gain some insights, but there seems to be a reluctance. I'll keep working on that.

As usual, your mileage may vary.

Kudu,

Fascinating. The troop of my youth operated much as you describe back in the late 60s, early 70s. The PLC (with SM input) selected new patrol leaders and the grooming of up-and-coming leaders was a frequent topic of discussion. I'll never forget the night I was called into PLC to discuss my new assignment as an APL to prepare me to take over as PL in the future. This meant a move to different patrol where I worked closely with the PL, being allowed to take on more and more responsibility until we went back to the PLC and he made the case I was ready for his job. Pretty amazing time for a 14 yr old. I had forgotten some of those details until I read your notes.

Thanks!

-mike

Beardad,

Lots of things can be a problem if they become an obsession at the expense of other important things. (Many of us on here can relate either to this forum or to our passion for scouting.)

I guess its possible that hiking or camping could qualify, but its pretty rare to find a boy sneaking out after bedtime to sleep in the backyard or get in a 5-miler. Video games are designed to get the players deeply involved. Some kids get bored, turn it off, and go do something else. For many, however, the more they like it, the more they play and tell their friends. If the games arent attractive, they dont sell. Even when playing with friends in a social setting, the better players are honored by the group and the others vow to go home and practice so they can be better next time. (Ive heard this interaction within group of scouts playing in my home. Sure wish I heard the same exchange after a knot-tying competition.)

Fortunately, my son likes to read, too. Occasionally well have to make him turn out the lights when hes into a book, but Ive never received a hostile reaction (like I have with video games) and he reaches the end of the book in a couple of days.

Back to the commercial aspects of video games. Again, the more people like a game or system and want to play, the more the company sells. From the companys point of view, its a very good thing when people get all wrapped up and want to play for hours and hours. In order to have a game which accomplishes this, they spend a lot of effort figuring out how to stimulate players in ways which make them come back for more and more. In other words, make them addictive.

Your mileage may vary.

I was about to start a thread on this "new" book I just read, "Playstation Nation", but hit Search before Start New Thread.

OK - so it's just new to me. Sorry I missed earlier discussion, but I wanted to bump this one up anyway.

This book could have been written about my son and our struggles for the last 2 years. His grades were heading downhill fast and his attitude at home was absolutely rotten. In desperation, we severely limited computer access and unplugged the games and cable TV. After a couple of months of rebellion, things were greatly improved. After a year and a half, he's still making up for missed learning in school, but is on track to continue on to college. He also has friends and hobbies again - outside of gaming - because his world doesn't revolve around getting to the next level. As long as the grades and attitude are up, he's now allowed limited playing on weekends and an occasional game party with friends and it's not an issue in the home. I wish my wife and I had read this valuable book as soon as it came out in 2006.

I've heard from some of my scouts in college that gaming continues to be an issue. One of my guys had to change roommates because his (Eagle Scout) roomy would play games all night and was in the process of flunking out.

If your kids are playing games, developing a bad attitude (esp. when it's time to unplug), and have falling grades, I would strongly suggest you get a copy of this book. I bought 10 copies and am loaning them out to all interested parents in the troop.

-mike

fgoodwin,

Excellent!

Here's a suggestion for #51: Unplug the X-Box, Cable TV, and Computer. After mindlessly wandering around the house for a few days looking for electronic stimulation, they'll eventually stumble through a door, temporarily blinded by the sunlight.

Another thought - check those yellow pages to see if there's a rock gym in the area. You can get some thrills with instruction and supervision. And they attract folks who practice in the gym during the week before heading out for some real rock on the weekends.

Climb on!

-mike

Good recommendations.

I wish I had watched carefully and asked questions before my oldest son joined a big troop with all his Webelos buds. It didn't take too long to figure out the troop was in chaos and had an undercurrent of negative vibes. After about a year, my boy was done. Fortunately I was able to talk him into giving another big troop a try. It wasn't an ideal fit, but he hung in there all the way to graduation.

For #2 son, I knew #1's troop wasn't a good fit at all, so we kept looking - eventually finding a perfect fit in a different small-medium sized troop.

A few additional lessons learned along the way:

- Don't be in a hurry. If a troop looks interesting when you get the sales pitch, come back and quietly hang out on the edges during a few meetings. You need to get past the recruiting sales pitch. Observe the guys in their patrol corners, during games, etc. Listen to their interactions, how the older guys interact with younger, etc. Do the guys really like and respect each other? Do they have a sense of purpose? I guarantee you'll learn a lot. (I did this additional observing once or twice without my son.) Don't sweat crossover deadline. If you and son aren't ready to commit, most scoutmasters will accept your son in the ceremony with the understanding that the final decision is still pending.

- Size seems to matter. Let me explain.

-- Ask adult leaders how many registered scouts are in the troop. Then count the number in attendance at the meetings you visit. Ask (or visit) to determine campout attendance, too. High rates of participation are a good indication of a strong program and guys who want to be together. (If you find a troop with 80% participation, sign up immediately before they are full. If it's 50% at meetings and 30% on campouts, keep looking.)

-- Ask adult leaders how many Webelos they crossed over last year. (They'll know.) Then ask them how many the previous year. (Some will remember.) Then ask them how many of these past two year-groups have rechartered this year. (Not many will know off the top of their head, but somebody has the paperwork and can find out.) Unfortunately, based on records in my District, it's not uncommon for some troops to regularly lose over 50% of new guys within 2 years. They will always lose a few due to various reasons, but 50% is tragic. There's something wrong. (I know some will argue they couldn't control it because the boys decided to focus on sports, band, school, etc., but I believe if the program is strong, the guy's decisions will reflect it - they'll find a way to play on the team and join the campout after the game.) Wouldn't you want your son to join a troop where he has an 80-90% chance of still being there in two years? (Those troops are out there, too.)

-- Now - about how size matters. Based on historical data from troops in my District, there's a strong correlation between size and dropout rate. The bigger troops bring in more guys, but they don't hang on to them. This is an unpopular topic around here and flies in the face of assumption bigger must be better. The small-medium troops are a mixed bag (some good retention, some bad), but the really big troops (100+ members) all lose over 50% in two years. I don't have solid numbers, but observations indicate same is true for attendance at meetings and campouts.

I'm sure there are exceptions, so don't assume small=good and big=bad. Just ask the questions about attendance and retention. You'll be glad you did.

Pick your path (troop) with care, but if you find your son is on the wrong one, it only costs $1 to transfer.

mike

Joni,

From the sounds of it, your troop has some work to do. It can be done as others have noted.

Our patrols operate autonomously on campouts with PL, APL, or other Acting PL (as assigned by PL) in charge. Key Point we stress continuously: PLs are responsible for the success of their patrol - even when the PL is not there. If PL can't make a campout, or is coming up late, he has to make sure his replacement is ready to lead his patrol. It's not unusual to see a PL (who won't make the campout) show up at the scout hut on Fri night to make sure everything is in order.

If at least 2 members of a patrol are on a campout, they camp as a patrol. If we had only one, we would have him join another patrol for the weekend, but that's never happened and we've only been down to two on one campout for Fri night only.

SPL and ASPLs eat and tent in same area as adults to keep these senior boy leaders out of the way of PLs. (Although they do cruise the patrol areas to keep an eye on things and sample food for the campout cooking award.)

SPL hands out written plans for the campout to PLs and adults before we depart on Fri night. This includes times for everything, who is in charge of activities, etc. (I had to work to get this ingrained, but it's working without hassle now.)

Patrols always have a campout grubmaster who's in charge of buying food and serving as head cook. All patrol members support cleanup with PL knocking heads, as required. Occasionally the SPL/ASPL will pull young PL aside and recommend he get the rest of his patrol involved, but the SPL would never engage directly with patrol members unless the PL needed help.

Troop QM is in charge of setting up cleaning station after every meal. (Usually with some prodding by SPL/ASPL.)

The only time an adult would step into patrol's business would be in a critical safety situation which required immediate action.

As you can tell, I'm a firm believer in using the chain-of-command. Adults are discouraged from going directly to SPL with comments/recommendations/suggestions/etc. The SPL works for SM and can't cope with numerous - often conflicting - inputs. If another adult has an input, he makes it to SM, not the SPL or any other boy leader or patrol member.

One last thing: We never have any "parents" on campouts - only adult leaders. If we're doing things right, a casual observer shouldn't be able to tell which boy goes with which adult. There is a transition period as the new Scouts & parents come aboard every year, but that's the goal ASAP. As part of this, even for active camping parents who really want to help, we recommend they let their son attend the first 2-3 campouts on his own so he gets used to working within the patrol system. By the time dad shows up, the young scout is already well on the way to being a full-up, functioning member of his patrol. Parents are amazed at the change in a few short months.

Good luck!

mike

Barry,

Good points!

According to the leaders at Philmont, most crews (about 90%) are held up by weaker adults, not scouts. Adults can be worse than a boy when repeatedly pushed to their limit. No one should underestimate the effects of cumulative fatigue and stress. I've seen it tear crews apart.

BTW - my backup adult this summer is a 19-yr old Eagle from our troop. He would have been prime, but couldn't commit due to college and summer job, and we needed to make a decision a few months ago. Now it sounds like he's ready to go if we need him. (The guys are all hoping one of us old dudes drops out - and that's likely.)

As has been stated, the minimum number of adults per crew is 2 and max is 4. There is an advantage to having more than 2 primarily if an adult has to come off the trail, leaving the crew with less than 2 adults, the whole crew must come off the trail. For this reason, I usually plan on having 3 adults so theres a walking spare. In my opinion, that 4th adult is taking a boys slot.

I would recommend your nephew ask his leaders if he can continue to train with them in case theres a late cancellation. Ive led crews to Boundary Waters and Philmont and both times we had scouts and adults drop at the last minute due to injuries or work priorities.

Im planning to take a crew to Philmont this summer and right now have 2 scouts and 1 adult training with us as backups. They would all rather be on the prime list, but theyll be ready in case something opens up and I expect it to.

Id also get in touch with the Council High Adventure coordinator to let him know theres a scout ready for Philmont, but without a current slot. Every summer we have crews scrambling at the last minute to find a replacement for a slot which is already paid for. Two summers ago, one of my scouts was invited to join a crew at no cost. He was in good shape and an experienced hiker. We had less than a week to help him borrow the gear and he had a great time.

There are several other options for scouts to attend Philmont as an individual and sometimes with a buddy. Check with Council or Philmont for details.

Roving Outdoor Conservation School (ROCS) spend some time working on conservation projects around Philmont (mostly trail maintenance), then do a trek with your crew. (Advantage is youre acclimated to altitude before start backpacking.)

Order of the Arrow Trail Crew for OA members (age 16-20) similar to ROCS.

Rayado Program hard-core 20-day program very strenuous. (Like your nephew, I missed the cut on my boyhood troops Philmont trek, so I did this one a couple of years later and have bragging rights over their wimpy trek to this day.)

Before I sign off, I must ask a few other questions:

How old is your nephew? Is there a large difference in his size/age/skills as compared to the other scouts on the crew? Does he have any physical/emotional issues that could cause problems under extended stress? (The note about him missing most troop campouts because he almost never camps without mom is an attention-getter for me.)

The reason I ask is that Ive been on numerous high-adventure trips through the years. In spite of all best intentions, the group will always move at the pace set by the weakest member(s) of the crew. If there is a big difference in capability, that weakest person will have a miserable experience. Perhaps your nephews group is comprised of a bunch of horses with their hearts set on one of Philmonts strenuous treks of 80 miles or more with big elevation changes. Theres an enormous difference between one of Philmonts 55 milers and the so-called super-strenuous 80-100 milers in 10 days. I know it doesnt look like it, but its possible they are doing your nephew a favor.

I hope something works out for the young man. Philmont is indeed Scouting Paradise!

-mike

fastbow,

When a SM has been in the job awhile, they can get kinda set in their ways. I couldn't wait for my oldest son to join Boy Scouts - then quickly became disillusioned, because the reality I saw didn't match my old memories. Then I became frustrated when SM didn't jump on my recommendations.

During the years that followed, I slowly learned two things:

1. The SM's job is an awesome responsibility and all are volunteers with limited time and capability. The hands-down best way to gain influence is to get in the game - to be an active supporter of the troop program, to find ways to help the SM with his burden, etc..

2. My golden, idealistic memories were faulty. Recent conversations with a couple of my childhood scoutmasters confirm we were a rag-tag bunch and everything wasn't as perfect as my memories. (In fact, this line of discussion resulted in some hearty belly-laughs.)

You already said you're a hands-on guy, so #1 will be easy for you. You're going to have to trust me on #2. In the meantime, please at least consider it as a possibility when something seems "wrong" based on your personal scouting memories.

You have signed up with TC - that's a great start! Based on your apparent interests in how the program is running, I would guess you would prefer to be an Assistant Scoutmaster. In the troop which I now serve as SM, almost all of our new parents are first asked to join the TC to give us a chance to get to know them, to give them time to adapt from Cubs/Webs to Boy Scouting, and to see which ones have the real interest/aptitude for me to trust to take my place when I'm not there.

I encourage you to get as much training as you can. You'll find a lot of value in studying the Boy Scout handbook, the handbooks for the Troop Comm & SM and maybe the SPL & PL positions. If you can get a copy of the handouts from the "leadership camp" you mentioned, that would be valuable information, because your SM obviously puts great stock in this program. In this process, you'll become completely fluent in BSA's latest information. After you've done your homework, pick the top 1-3 things you think are the highest priority for getting changed. As problems come up related to these things, you'll find an opportunity to make a quiet recommendation along the lines of "You know, maybe if we tried this xxxxx, we could turn the boys around in this area."

In the troop I serve, I recognized some deficiencies in the scout leadership model as a whole. As specific problems came up, in discussions afterward with SM and small group of active insiders, I quietly made the point that many could be traced back to leaders not knowing and doing their jobs. After a while, I convinced the SM we would benefit from having our own in-house troop junior leader training to get everyone on the same page and I volunteered to help him by pulling it all together. He enthusiastically agreed. I started with current BSA T-JLT materials and drew upon lots of other sources (primarily Venture Crew Leader training manual, NYLT, National Outdoor Leadership School Leadership Educator Notebook, outlines from other troops leaders after discussions at SM Roundtable discussions, and my old notes from teaching Council JLT many years ago).

The SM loved it, added his own tweaks, and we embarked on a total revamp of our leadership development program. We now conduct a 24-hr Troop JLT session (Fri night Sat night) every 6 months with the incoming leadership team. The first year was mostly about getting everyone to buy in to the common vision and developing troop-level goals. With those now firmly in place as part of their culture, we spend less time on those and more on specific leadership development as well as training for specific jobs. The turn-around has been fantastic!

In short, hang in there, keep it positive and youll find ways to help things improve!

-mike

(This message has been edited by Mike F)

uz2bnowl,

Excellent! Looks like the perfect material for updating my troop junior leader training materials!!

Thanks!

-mike

Most of the time, we use neither.

Guys decide on the campouts they want and we use meetings to get ready.

A few months ago, they wanted to do a wilderness survival theme, so meetings were dedicated to learning how to build various shelters, natural bedding, signaling, solar stills, etc.

Before that, it was orienteering, so we brushed up on compass skills and reading contour maps.

Now we have a camporee coming up, so main emphasis is on competition skills.

Next will be a fun water campout, so safe swim, canoeing, and water rescue drills will be the emphasis.

Your mileage may vary.

-mike

Our troop uses Patrol Grubmaster as described by others. No money handled at the troop level. Patrols encouraged to collect ahead of time and proceed at own risk if they decide not to do. Scouts who cancel after food is bought do not get refund.

We used to have all patrol members and adults going on a campout meet at one grocery store on a selected night prior to the campout. What we saw was very little pre-planning and lots of wandering around the store trying to figure out what they needed. We had the same confusion about buying for guys who weren't there that night and it always took a long time for a lot of people - big waste of time. Now the patrols do a better job of planning and will send an experienced scout with a new grubmaster to show him the ropes. (They learned this after a couple of young, skinny scouts brought enough food to feed small guys their size, but the 16 & 17-yr old "horses" were starving by the end of the weekend.)

I've noticed some comments about also collecting camping fees with food money. We used to do that, but now pay all camping fees out of the troop treasury. Rationale: Campouts are the troop program and are paid for by the whole troop - even those who don't participate. This doesn't apply if there are additional expenses, like canoe rentals, but does apply to all campsite entrance fees.

-mike

Eagledad/Barry,

Once again, you nailed it!

Since getting back to the basics - I call it "Fun, Friends, and Adventure" - and away from a desperate push to First Class in the first year, our participation and retention have increased dramatically. All but one of our high school aged scouts is an active, engaged leader. (The one less active scout earned his Eagle and completed his second term as SPL during his Junior year, then decided to concentrate more on school and sports his Senior year.) Our last 2 SPLs were serving in that position up to their 18th birthday and our current one will do the same. Why? Because they are being challenged and know they are learning leadership and management skills which are important to their futures. (We stress that heavily in the introduction phase of our troop junior leader training.)

Your posts are never too long!

Thanks!

-mike

jblake47,

I'm impressed! I've seen two different troops attempt Venture Patrols with disasterous results described by others above. When both of those troops disbanded the Venture Patrol(s) and mixed the guys back in to mixed-age patrols, their level of participation in troop events and leadership sky-rocketed.

You, however, may have hit on the right group of guys and formula to really make it work for your troop's benefit. Congratulations!!

Another thought for others looking to keep older boys interested: Consider having one or two events per year just for the older scouts. Go check out a new trail before dragging the whole troop down it. Try white-water rafting, etc. We're planning a backpacking trip during Spring Break. Since all of the older boys are in positions of responsibility, we just call them the Leadership Corps. (An old term that works for us.) This includes SPL and ASPLs (who aren't in patrols), PLs, and other staff positions (who are also in regular patrols). SPL is the leader. I'm looking forward to it as a leadership retreat - time for some dedicated, low-key training and bonding time. The guys are looking forward to a hard-core outing without the younger scouts, so they can cover more ground and enjoy being out without the burden of leading the less experienced.

One of our very active Scouters passed away unexpectedly a couple of years ago. There were well over 100 scouts and scouters at his funeral. We passed the word for all to go outside immediately after the ceremony to line the walk where the pallbearers would bring him to the hearse. As they came out the door, I called Scout salute! There were very few dry eyes. His wife told me afterwards thats just the send-off he would have wanted.

Prayers for his family and your unit.

-mike