Backpacker

Hunt,

If you want an active CO/COR invite them to attend activities your unit puts on, treat them as guests of honor and you will have them eating out of your hand. If one or two of the CO seem interested, invite them to join your committee or help out in other ways. Thats what we did with the pastor(IH)and COR of our CO and now we get all the assistance we need, it took a lot of initial effort on our part but it was worth it.(This message has been edited by Backpacker)

1027

While Bob's information is correct since it comes right from the book, sadly it is far from reality. Many CO's have no idea what their duties are and many really dont't ever want to become involved with the unit, unless there is trouble. Your CR is your lifelink to your CO so make sure you use them. Your DE is supposed to each year sit down with every CR and IH and remind them of their responsibilities. There is even training for a CR if they really are concerned with doing their job. As far as selecting leaders, most of the CO's rubber stamp whoever the unit chooses since all adult leaders are put through a background check anyway. So you have the ideal and the reality and you deal with the situation where ever your unit falls. I can almost guarantee you that the initial effort to make your CO responsive will have to start with you, and use the help of your DE if you have any difficulty. As far as the UC is concerned I think Fuzzy hit that one right on the mark.

While the buddy system is preferred in most scouting activities, it does not apply to sleeping alone in a tent, which as hops indicated is acceptable . As far as female Venturers on our crews last outing we had 10 females signed up but one fell ill so one girl slept alone in her tent,her choice, it was perfectly within BSA policy and her tent was right next to the others so they could communicate if necessary. I have never heard of the 3 year rule but it does seem to make sense as a guideline, but we have to be careful in taking suggestions from a trainer and making them a hardfast rule when that rule is not part of BSA guidelines. If a suggestion makes sense and is logically thought out, and appropriate for the age group and event then do it.

I agree with acouple of posters here, first FEMA has become so disjointed since it went under Homeland Security, the right hand doesn't know what the left is doing and thats because Homeland is still trying to figure out who is really in charge when something happens jurisdiction boundaries are now all askew. F-Scouter is also correct, experts on engineering, ecosystems, etc. are all saying you can not rebuild New Orleans the same way,otherwise this will just happen again. The government needs to get things organized and rebuilt smarter, not quicker and the least costly methods. There is plenty of blame to go around but it seems that Homeland Security being the central control is not working, let each agency be responsible in its own area of expertise rather than trying to be a Walmart, all things rolled into one stop shopping. I shudder to think what will happen if there is another terrorist attack on our soil, the chaos will be unbelievable.

I think it is amazing that the SE is allowing volunteers to interview a new DE, means he is more open minded than most of them. Usually only the professional staff at a council interviews a new DE, sometimes with one or two members of the executive board, and it is the SE and only he that makes the final decision. Maybe your SE feels that if you all decide this guy is right for the job and later on he doesn't work out you all get to share the blame.

One main concern with any DE is what his idea of a successful district and what his priorities are. I don't think it is important what his volunteer experience is, you are not hiring a new volunteer.

The main thing you need to discover is what his MO is and how trustworthy he will be to his district. Sometimes new DE's are hired to clean out a district that their predecessors could not of "volunteer deadwood" and that is bad news. It sounds however that your SE really wants your opinions of this guy and that is great. If this DE is a straightshooter thats your main concern, the rest you can teach him over time.

Being an honest District Executive.

But it also can be one of the most rewarding when things go right.

In our troop we have used mixed age patrols for over 5 years now and it has worked great. The crossovers are put in groups of three and put into an exsisting patrol, where each of the older boys take a turn being their guide. This results in two positives I have seen, first the crossovers integrate into the troop much faster than if kept in their own patrol, which we have tried before, and second for some reason we have excellent retention and much more rapid advancement. First Class - First Year has become routine in our troop.

My own feelings for this success are that we have an extremely dedicated PLC who want the troop to be welcoming, especially to new scouts, and successful. Since most of the older scouts in the patrol get to practice their leadership and training skills with the younger guys, no one person has to take the full load on themselves. Each older scout shares their own area of expertise with the younger boys, so it gives the older guys a vested interest in the younger guys advancing. Now I know there are those who believe that this setup violates "the patrol method", but it has been working much more efficently than the NSP ever did. It works for this troop, and was the original patrol method before the NSP came along.

Bob,

See what happens when you tread into unknown territory, per your last post it is obvious you know very little about professional scouting and your lack of sources to support your claim just proves my point. Stick to what you know and have experienced instead of giving incorrect information on professional scouting which you have not been involved with and are so ill informed about. All you do with such posts is dishonor the efforts of those honest DE's trying to help scouting.

Ok Bob this is not meant as an attack on you but SR DE is not automatically given out for time served and training, every DE must also achieve all of their money and number goals as well, there are many DE's who have served for many years that never go higher in the ranks even with the training.

Now this comes from my six years as both a DE and Sr. DE and from National's professional policies and all my trainings at National, your reply to that poster was incorrect. What were your resources for the reply you gave, for all my years in scouting I never heard anything like it? National does not make it a policy to promote deadwood or marginal De's just because they have been around a while. And you have told us in the past that you never were in the ranks of professional scouting so I am curious where you got this from.(This message has been edited by Backpacker)

Bob

Why you insist on distorting the truth continues to amaze me. To set the record straight I do not hate anyone on this forum, I may disagree or point out faulty statistics like you just gave Bob.

Secondly I am not negative about the BSA, otherwise why would I stay involved all these years. I have seen some things on the scouting professional side which I did not like even though I was involved in it for six years and see some of the results in the latest stories to hit the news.

However I ran my districts with openess and honesty which the volunteers responded extremely postive and both they and I were sucessful in meeting and exceeding all our goals. All of the scouting units that I have been or still are involved with are thriving and growing with sound programs from the BSA. So Bob if you interpret that as negative on scouting then you don't know what you are talking about.

Lastly if pointing out some wrong information you were giving out and correcting it is considered an attack on you, then I guess I'm guilty.

You can continue to twist my words and make up all kinds of erroneous stats you want about me I really don't care because my units, district and council know how much I care about scouting and thats all that matters, what you think means absolutely nothing to me. Spout all the poison about me and others you want to because it doesn't mean a thing to anyone.

I refer you back to Zahnada's post and challenge you to respond to him. or maybe he is right when he says...

"Bob, you are just a bully."

Having been accused by Bob a number of times for things that were simply not true I have to agree with Zahnadas last post, especially the last line.

However I have been involved with scouting for over thirty years as a youth, webelos leader scoutmaster, district executive and a Venturing Advisor and for the record no one supports or believes in the scouting program and its methods more strongly than I do, not even you Bob.

To all those who think it is some kind of sin to discuss and debate different aspects of scouting then I say to you open your mind or choose not to participate in that topic, but do not accuse anyonewho has or is devoting their time as a scouter to the youth of our country as not being loyal, to me that is the worse violation of the scout law and extreme unscoutlike behavior.I do accuse Bob of doing that frequently to posters on this forum.

All of us here, with maybe two exceptions, love scouting and all it stands for and I am sure we all have had to defend the program to those who have opposed scouting , myself included.

My point is that sometimes we get caught up in tirades over minutia that is really meaningless in the greater theme of scouting. This is just a forum of scouters wanting to exchange ideas and debate issues, we do not make policy for National or are in a decision making capacity for the scouting program. We work with our units to bring the best program to our youth following the guidelines set by National, instead of criticizing each other we should be applauding each other for instilling a sense of morality, ethics, reverence in our youth who are growing up in an increasingly immoral, unethical, and irreverent culture. Bob you have a lot of experience to share, but so do many other of us here, sharing is a two way street and once you start accusing instead of sharing then the discussion ends and unscoutlike behavior begins.

F scouter,

Tell me do you know the difference between a moderator and a censor ? Apparently not with the indiscriminate way you delete and change posts.

(This message has been edited by a staff member.)

It seems to me that a staff member is getting a little heavy handed with his editing power. I agree personal insults should be limited but for crying out loud you guys are eliminating any free discussion. We are all big boys here and can take a few hits, pretty soon almost all of the posts in here will just have :

(edited by a staff member)

Oh well so much for free speech!

(This message has been edited by a staff member.)

I am well aware of the correct acronym Hops and don't need my typo to be corrected by you. I am also positive my knowledge about Girl Scouts far exceeds your own.

Ed

The truth of the matter is that Bob rarely has any facts to back up his claims, except the ones he makes up. He just is trying to prevent jkhny from expressing his views as he does with anyone who disagrees with him. While I do not agree with jkhny on this issue he should be allowed to express his opinion, and he does make a few valid points about professional scouting. The BSA is not perfect, no organization is, but a certain poster mistakenly feels that any disparaging remark about the BSA should be squelched. BSA can take the hit just fine and go on, it's too bad that poster can not do the same. He (BW) feels that he is the Don Quixote, savior of the BSA without whom the organization would surely crumble.

Scoutnut

First of all my wife is currently a GSA professional as well as a volunteer leader and has worked on cookie sales and other things on a council and at the regional level /state level for many years now so you will forgive me if I take her word over yours. Second we were not comparing a troop to a troop but the net profits from popcorn vs cookies on a National level and there the GSA wins hands down. I don't think you or Bob can provide any stats to the contrary on that ONE issue, unless you make them up like Bob tends to do.

Scoutnut

The last line in your post, "the GSA and BSA are set up diffently that they can not be compared", is totally innacurate and if you would do a little research online you would see how easy it is to get facts about cookie vs popcorn sales and other organizational matters. Or you can be like Bob and just create stats out of thin air and try to intimidate others into thinking you are correct when in fact you are not.

Bob & Scoutnut

First re read Hops and Its Me posts to try to understand this topic better than you both obviously do. Secondly, my wife is an active GS leader and is involved with cookie sales on a district and regional level so yes I know the actual profits of the GS cookie sales compared to popcorn sales, so you both can quit acting so pompous and obnoxious because once again you are totally wrong. Lastly, the only ka-ka I read comes from your postings with so much incorrect information, as usual, on this and every other thread.

Oh by the way Bob, I don't really care if you are upset or not, never have or will.

Bob if anyone told you the sky was blue you would argue that it's red. Facts are facts and those presented here are accurate. Just because you talked to two GS leaders now you are an expert on cookie sales, gimmee a break, you probably misinterpreted what they told you like you do everything else. You answered your own question in your last post, popcorn sales are not a requirement whereas all GS troops participate in their national cookie sale, so of course their profits would far exceed popcorn sales. To state that troops make as much on popcorn as GS makes on cookie sales is naive at best, unless you can compare the top selling BS troop to the lowest selling GS troop and even in that case you would still be wrong. Look at council websites when they report sales totals and compare, the facts speak for themselves, or you can continue to live in your plastic bubble and ignore reality, as you do on most threads in here.

Venturing is a diverse creature at best, if you are too specialized you will appeal only to those teens interested in that specialization and if you are too generalized your crew will lack focus. The best idea is to start with a few different activities like an outdoor adventure, (rafting, kayaking, camping), then maybe an excursion to something like an amusement park, water park, etc., then try a beach party and picnic or have the crew host a dance party. That is usually enough of a diverse start to attract a wide range of teens,and will give them training in leadership and organizational skills. Then they are ready to develop a year long program of activities that they know the rest of the crew will enjoy. Keep it simple and easy to start then just keep building up as time goes on, by the second year you will have a solid crew and trained officers then watch out, they will pleasantly surprise you, I have seen it firsthand with my crew. Good Luck.

jkhny

Using your logic that if a system or organization has done something wrong that they are a sinking ship then you would have to include the US government, most US corporations, the Catholic Church and most other faith traditions, school districts, colleges etc., etc. The fact is all these groups, including the BSA, are run by imperfect humans who make mistakes, sometimes serious ones. You don't scuttle an entire ship if one small part is defective, you repair or replace that part. Your doom and gloom about the demise of the BSA is illogical and not realistic. If the BSA makes mistakes they will learn from them and make the necessary changes, otherwise just like any company they will go out of business. I don't think however that the BSA is ready to collapse, if anything their message and program are even more needed in todays society than in any other time in BSA history.(This message has been edited by Backpacker)

Bobby White

Believe me I never insinuated that you were a pro scouter, I would not insult the profession in that way. If you were trained as a professional you would understand the BSA programs much better than you do currently.

If you need my help to understand how to find information on the National Venturing (you notice not Sea Scouts)website just ask, it's all there in black and white. Start with the subheadings on sea scouts then go to organizational structure you might just learn something. Try not to twist what you learn this time to fit your own erroneous ideas like you have done so often.

Thank you Michael for correcting Bob's misinformation once again. Apparently Bob considers the National BSA site one of his inaccurate sites because the correct information is all there, if he ever took the time to read it. Bob likes to interpret information to fit what he thinks, not what is correct.