AwHeck

I have had similar thoughts, unfortunately at our District Dinner. The District Dinner acknowledges the Eagle Scouts from the prior year and all those able to attend participate in the opening and closing flag ceremony. Our troop typically has the "standard" of uniform shirt and "green" pants for regular troop meetings but scouts are expected to be in FULL uniform for Boards of Review and Courts of Honor. It saddens me to see that the majority of Eagle Scouts who participate in the flag ceremonies at the District Dinner wear only their uniform shirt, usually with jeans.

I'll admit that I haven't run across a request to use Altar Serving as service hours even though I know of several members of our troop who are active altar servers. On a somewhat related subject, in our church, youth preparing for Confirmation must perform a certain number of service hours - 1/3 for "family", 1/3 for "community" and 1/3 for the church. The rule of thumb for these service hours was that it be something above and beyond what you were already doing. While on the surface, I don't really have a problem with that, when my daughter was going through this process she was already an active member of the children's choir and was an altar server at the early mass on Sunday (so therefore tended to serve every 2 weeks or so due to its unpopularity) She was also involved in sports and otherwise very busy. It seemed to me that she was being penalized for her previous volunteer efforts in that now she had to find even MORE time in an already crowded schedule or back out of existing volunteer commitments in order to make time for "new" volunteer opportunities. Luckily, I was able to have an offline discussion with the director who agreed that she was already going "above and beyond" and therefore could use her current activities for credit.

We had venturers at ours. They had set up a sample campsite and also ran the round-robin problem solving games. Since this was in late July/early August no school was missed.

I am amazed that most of you seem to go to the same camp every year. Our troop tends to only go to our local council camp about every 2 or 3 years - not that it's not a GREAT camp but to give the boys more experiences and to keep them from getting bored. That being said, here's a list of where my son has gone to camp since joining the troop... I've usually been there for at least a few days and sometimes for the full week: Peaceful Valley Scout Camp - Chris Dobbins (Denver Area Council) Camp Ben Delatour (Longs Peak Council I think) Peaceful Valley again Spanish Peaks Scout Ranch - in Southern Colo but owned by a Kansas council Camp Buffalo Bill - Wyoming and this year we're going back to Peaceful Valley but using their "Eagle Point" camp which is a "design your own" summer camp. At Peaceful Valley you have a choice of Chris Dobbins which is a dining hall camp or Dietler which is patrol cooking or Eagle Point where you can choose to have the camp cook for you or have the patrols cook (or some of each) Ben Delatour and Spanish Peaks were both patrol cooking Buffalo Bill is dining hall The boys seem to enjoy the experience of patrol cooking but, honestly, I haven't seen that be a major deciding factor in which camp to go to. They seem more interested in what merit badges are offered, and the unique offerings of each camp. They'll be meeting in a couple of weeks for the annual planning meeting and I'll find out then where they want to go for next year.

Training, training, training! Get all the training you can. Attend roundtables and talk to experienced leaders from within your district.

There is BALOO (cubscout specific outdoor training) as well as the Introduction to Outdoor Skills (Boy Scout level) there may be a Webelos specific outdoors one also but I'm not sure. There is the Troop Committee Challenge which outlines the troop committee's responsibilities. Our council also offers Health and Safety training. Then there's always Pow Wow and Chataqua (may be different names at different councils) - basically full day seminar style trainings offered by volunteers within the council - Pow Wow for Cub related topics and Chataqua for Boy Scout level. Usually there is a Chartered Organization Representative conference in conjunction with one or the other in our council.

Have you tried talking to the SM and the ASM? What about your CO - are they involved with the unit at all?

I agree with txscoutdad... most boys when left to their own devices will not change their clothes at all during camp. We usually try to get them into the shower at least once during camp and tell them that it's a requirement. I personally like it when we're at a camp where they can take swimming ... at least those boys get rinsed off daily My most memorable experience was when we went to summer camp in northern CO - they had arrangements with a local whitewater rafting outfit and at least 1/2 of our scouts signed up for the optional trip for Sat after we left camp.. again ... rinsed them off for the ride home!

In our troop, every scout elected/appointed to a POR must sign a leadership contract. It specifies an attendance expectation (75%) among other things specific to the position. At the end of the term, the SM and outgoing SPL meet to discuss each boy and whether they met the requirements or not. If they didn't they are informed and they do not get credit for the POR. This doesn't mean that they have to be perfect but they do have to BE THERE and do their best to fulfill the responsibilities of the position. A quartermaster who only goes on 1 campout during the 6 months isn't apt to get credit.

Do adults sign off on a majority of requirements in most troops? In our troop, the requirements for Tenderfoot, 2nd class, and 1st class are signed off by a scout who is himself at least 1st class. The only ones NOT signed by as scout are Scout Spirit (discussed at the SM conference). Sometimes the Advancement chair will sign off on the "participate in 5 troop activities" or 10 activities if troopmaster shows it as complete and he hasn't had a scout sign that off yet. When I sit on 1st class BORs I always ask about what the troop will expect of him should we grant the rank. I also specifically ask about signing off on a requirement for a friend if he hasn't quite completed the task... I have always gotten the response I want for that question. I usually follow up with something that leads him to tell me that it ties in to "A Scout is Trustworthy". Interestingly, this led to the first time I ever postponed a rank - I was trying to get a scout to say this and tried leading him by mentioning the Scout Law... his response was "I don't know the Scout Law" ... needless to say the BOR members unanimously agreed that he couldn't achieve rank until he knew the law.

t487scouter - Our troop pays half the cost and the family pays the other. We do have a scholarship account from various donations and if a scout can't afford to pay their half we would cover the full cost. The scholoarship account is available for any scout who needs assistance for campouts, summer camp etc.

We don't have a rank requirement but we have the guideline that a candidate for SPL should have been through Big Horn which is our council level week long version of NJLT. To be eligible for Big Horn, I believe that a scout must be 1st class and age 13. We have a very large troop (currently 100 scouts registered) and we highly encourage all scouts to attend Big Horn once they are eligible.

At a recent Eagle Board of Review while we were reviewing the candidate's letters, project book, etc our district advancement representative told us about a scout that joined at 16 and did indeed make eagle by his 18th birthday. The challenges of the time in position have already been mentioned by some here. Another thing to consider is some of the merit badges take time also so take a look at those too when making your plans. Personal Management, Personal Fitness, and Family Life are the first ones that come to mind that have specific timeframes built in. If you are truly committed and your troop supports you then it can be done but you need to plan everything out NOW and make sure that you keep to the schedule.

BobWhite - you state that a committee chair can now earn this award? How does this fit with the "serve as Scoutmaster for 3 years" requirement? Can you provide a reference that states a CC can earn it??

I had a similar dilema for one of my ticket items. My particular item combined my volunteer duties in Scouts with my volunteer duties in a local disaster support organization. Through my "non-scout" activities, I had available training materials in local emergency prepardness classes for the area where I live (in the foothills outside of Denver). The way I structured my ticket item was to: * obtain a list of all scout leaders in the specified area (in my case, all packs, troops, and crews) * contact each offering the training along with information on the Emergency Preparedness BSA award that tied nicely into the training I offered * a follow-up call or letter * and presenting the training if requested. The result? The troop and crew that my son is involved in will have the training (scheduled for the next few months) and another crew leader is very interested in the topic and has joined the local VOAD (Voluntary Organizations Active in Disasters) as a result of my contacting him. Not quite the result that I was hoping for but, you never know, more may contact me in the future especially after they put together their annual plan for next year. I did and still do feel that it was a worthwhile ticket item and I structured it so that I had control over completion - I DID contact all the units, I DID make a followup etc. (By the way, I'll get my beads on May 23rd)

Xagor - I suggest that you first sit down and list all of your examples of how your SM has overstepped his bounds or acted illogically in your opinion. Be as specific as possible - dates, reasons given, etc. Then, once you have your documentation in order, ask the Committee Chairman to meet with you to listen to your concerns. If for some reason the committee chair is unwilling to meet with you, the next steop would be to meet with your Charter Organization Representative (COR). All adults must be approved by your Chartered Organization and this is usually through the COR. If you don't know who your COR is, you should be able to obtain this information by calling your Council Office. Good Luck!

You seem to be suggesting that he get all the way to the BOR before being told that he isn't living up to the expectations. It seems to me that this discussion should come at the Scoutmasters Conference, not the BOR. In our troop, the SM signs off on the "scout spirit" requirement during the SM conference and the behaviors described here seem to fall into that category. We have had a few cases in which the SM has met with the scout and explained why he felt that the youth wasn't exhibiting "scout spirit" and giving specifics as to what was expected and a timeframe. I personally feel that this is a much more appropriate response than throwing it to the BOR. Having said that, however, we have also had occasion when the BOR members have confronted a young man regarding their own experience with his lack of "scout spirit" and suggested a delay in their approval of a rank advancement. As CC, I have supported the BOR in such decisions, however my preference is to bring concerns to the SM and have him address such concerns in a SM conference.

BSA automatically provides accident insurance (on a secondary basis) for all REGISTERED youth and adults for injuries they may incur while participating in a scouting activity. A few years ago, we had a young man who broke his collarbone while on a campout. An ASM took him to the emergency room where he was treated. The ASM brought along the standard medical form which includes "permission to treat". Honestly, I never asked the ASM if the parents were contacted by the hospital prior to treatment. I DO know that this particular family did not have health insurance at the time and so I provided the parents with claim forms for the BSA insurance. There was no financial impacts to the Troop or the ASM.

For those who say that a group earning their ranks at the same time should raise red flags, I offer a counter argument. My personal doctor is an Eagle scout. The first time I met him, I was having a physical for summer camp. He spent more time reminiscing about his scouting experience than questioning me about my health (or it seemed so to me at the time). He stated that he and his friends all worked together and he probably wouldn't have earned Eagle without them. He said that they would collectively decide on what merit badges to work on and each would be assigned one to arrange. They would contact the MB counselor, assemble any required equipment, etc and then let the others know the plans. It sounded to me like a perfect example of "boy led" in action. Yes, they all earned the MBs at the same time (or so I presume) but it didn't sound to me like they were participating in an "eagle mill" or were being passed for "trying their best." About the time that my son joined our troop the troop had a 13 year old Eagle. This kid was definitely a high performer and highly motivated. Looking back, however, neither my son nor I remember him on many campouts and he dropped out of scouting about a year later. Was this good or bad? No one except the scout himself and perhaps his parents could say. We had another young lad on a similar track a year or so later. I know for a fact that his parents WERE NOT pushing him, he was pushing himself. He was a Life scout, had completed his service project and POR, and only needed to complete a few requirements for the camping MB to earn his Eagle. He dropped out of scouts. His parents were quite dismayed but nothing the parents or SM said could change his mind. He didn't particularly enjoy the camping and claimed that he had never made any true friends in the troop. This lad is a year younger than my son and is just finishing his first year in high school now. He dropped out well over a year ago. I have always believed that this lad was true Eagle Scout material. Since my son has gotten involved in a local Venture Crew, I have suggested that he discuss this with the young man as maybe the Crew environment may be more enticing to him than the troop was. Only time will tell if he becomes interested in scouts again or not. Whether he earns his Eagle or not will have been his decision.

Ok.. I just have to ask this one... eaglescout2004 how do you teach Family Life at summer camp??? Our troop is doing a "design your own" summer camp offered through our council this year and at a meeting last night, one of our youth listed that as a MB that had been requested for summer camp. As committee chair, I stated that this badge just cannot be done at camp - 4 of the 7 requirements must be done at home or with the family (chores tracked for 90 days, family meeting, project to benefit the family, and a project that involves the family).

Now that's an interesting acco40. In our troop, the understanding is that service that benefits scouts doesn't count towards service hours. Our CO has an annual "work day" and the scouts participate for this event, we have generally granted "half credit" (credit for half the hours worked) since it's for the CO and indirectly for scouts. I'm not sure how we'd view work at a council facility as it hasn't come up yet....

It sounds like our Council/District does things a lot differently from the rest of you. Our District Advancement Chair has a committee of several members. After the Life scout has presented his project to the troop committee for review, he calls a member of the District Advancement Committee and sets up an appointment to review his project. When the DAC member meets with the scout, he/she reviews the proposed project and either approves or rejects on the spot. Assuming it's approved, the project book is signed and the scout is free to work on the project. So far as I know, the first time the project book itself actually goes to council is when the project is complete as well as all other requirements for Eagle and the entire package is delivered to council.

I had an interesting situation somewhat similar to this. It was at summer camp and I was leading a BOR for a scout to earn First Class. One question that I like to ask at First Class BORs is something to ensure that the scout will ensure another scout knows the skills being demonstrated before signing off in the book and not just signing off because "he's my friend." The scout correctly answered this question but I followed with "why?" - honestly, all I wanted was for the scout to say that a "Scout is Trustworthy" - he was stumped. I tried leading him, no go... I asked about the Scout Law and his response was "I don't know the scout law." I could see in the eyes of the other adults the same thought... we asked a couple more questions then dismissed him as usual to discuss whether to grant the rank. All the board members were in agreement that we could not grant First Class rank to a scout who admitted to not knowing the Law. When we called him back, we expressed our concerns and told him that if he could come back to me before the end of summer camp (2 more days) and could tell me, from memory, the Scout Oath and Scout Law then we'd grant the rank. It definitely shocked him and the rest of his patrol that we'd actually deny/delay a rank but his buddies helped him study and the next evening he came up to me, recited the Oath and Law, and received his rank. In my view, not knowing the Law and going for First Class is MUCH different from not being able to remember particulars about a certain merit badge but there ARE times when a BOR has to make the decision to delay granting rank.

In our troop, at least, there is always a separation for the rank advancements in that the SM won't do a SM conference until the BOR for the prior rank has been completed. We have a large troop (almost 100 with our new cross-overs) and we have a specific committee position for BOR coordinator. The scouts are expected to call the BOR coordinator in advance to schedule their BOR (I'm the CC). One difference is at Summer Camp - I'm usually there and prepared to do BORs as our (usually newer) scouts are ready to advance. I have had the situation at a Summer Camp where a scout was ready for 2 ranks at the same time but what we did was he had his SM Conference for the first rank followed by a BOR then his second conference followed by the second BOR. At summer camp, we usually have a white board posted with areas for them to sign up for the SM conferences and BORs. He can't sign up for the second conference until he had passed the first BOR - depending on how many other scouts were trying to advance and whether they and the SM were available, the second conference could be held immediately or after a few hours or the next day.

For a while there, my son was in the "Navy Seals" patrol ... one of the dad's happened on some custom patches that had been ordered through the scout shop and never picked up so they adopted that name. They recently merged with the Pedros (Pedros has been the patrol name of our oldest scouts for many years - the Navy Seals had at least as many members as the Pedros when they merged but they decided to stick with tradition and keep the Pedros name). One patrol started out as the Patriots (using the liberty bell patrol patch) but later changed their name to the "Delta Force" - haven't seen a patrol patch for them but they like it We had two patrols - the Owls and the Eagles that merged - they delayed choosing a new patrol name so we (adults) started calling them the "Bird Brains" ... that stuck for almost a year (they seemed to like it) before they finally agreed on the Mustangs.