LPC_Thumper

I thought it was the role of the District Advancement Chair to ensure a couple of things happen: 1 - That there is a current list of qualified and trained Merit Badge Counsellors 2 - That qualified volunteers that wish to be Merit Badge Counsellors are trained and equiped with the tools they need. This chair of course can delegate this work, but isn't that what they are supposed to worry about?

We call ours a Merit Badge Pow Wow. We hold it for 3 consecutive Saturday mornings over a two month time (this way troops that want to go camping each month can). This last year we celebrated our 20th. We have nearly 300 scouts come and offer just under 40 Merit Badges. We try to keep the classes complementary to (rather than competing with) summer camp. The headaches we face YEARLY are counselors forget to show up, boys loose their schedules, and misinformed adults refer to us as a merit badge mill. Here's how we handle each of our problems. We always have two counselors for each badge. One of them knows they are the backup, and may get a call with very little notice. Many times these back ups attend just like the regular counselors. We start looking for next year's counselors after the first Saturday. We make phone calls to them about 6 - 8 weeks before hand, and then call them again the first week, but still someone is going to forget. We create schedules on computer. (Actually we have an M/S ACCESS database set up) When scouts get their schedules, they are mailed back to their scoutmaster, and he gets a copy of them as well. We also reprint copies of scout letters and SM letters. It's much easier to just have duplicates than try and figure out how they did what they did to show up without a schedule. This approach keeps the blood pressure down. As for those that insist that our event is a mill, we invite them to sit in any class. We tell them, they have to attend all 3 sessions before they decide if what we are doing is really that bad. See most of them think that since we offer a class, we are claiming that you will finish that class during that time. Well, since we offer Family Life, Personal Management that both have 90 day requirements we are obviously pushing the boys through without completing their requirements. It's very common for these critics to sing a very different tune, when they hear us as the leaders tell the counselors not to feel any pressure to sign any blue cards. They also hear these folks tell the scouts that this merit badge will not be completed without talking to them away from Pow Wow. Homework is also something that many of them stress. I mean how do you do Communications by sitting in a room for 1 hour on 3 consecutive Saturdays? We have really made an impact on our scouts. I'd be happy to answer any questions, you have if I haven't already. This is just what we found works.

Sounds like you are having the worries that many of us have had. Here's what we do... When the Troop needs help with training, we use the Crew to provide that. (Sort of kills two birds with the same stone, since this is one of the things you need for advancement anyway). There are trips that the crew goes on that the troop is not invited. For example, we have gone to all the National High Adventure Bases, but the troop hasn't. We do things as a troop that the crew is not invited to. Most of those things are summer camp (partly because summer camp staff gets all weirded out by co-ed crew) I'm thinking that you understand that Troops and Crews should camp seperately especially if there are girls involved. Just helps the younger Boy Scouts stay on task better. I'm sure you'll get other answers that will help you more. Good Luck!

One of the things we do in my community is have the Web II dens shop for troops. This allows 2 things to happen. 1st it allows the Webelos to see if they like the troop. Or in other words if they think new scouts are where these new scouts are at. 2nd it also allows the troop to see the Webelos. You know there are some that will have a hard time in your program, but will LOVE another's. We try to be positive as we direct them. There are also those that on first evaluation, you think they just aren't going to fit with you. I'm sure glad they know better.

Great posts. As a Committee Chair for a troop, I wear these six: AOL, Eagle, Adult Religious Award AoM, Silver Beaver, SM of Merit As the District Chair I wear all 12. Both times I wear my 3 beads, my OA sash, and a PTC patch as my temp patch. The fancier uniform has everything to do with "I understand," while the simpler one allows me to take a back seat to my friend, the SM. I've noticed that we have a tri-fold flyer we had to visiting parents. It lists the SM as a contact, and lists most of his awards, even though he doesn't wear them all. My name is the other contact, and yes my awards are listed too. It works for us.

I'm on our Council's training team (as well as a former District Training Chair) I can tell you that the Junior Leader Training course mentions the position, BUT leaves in fairly blank. This is an intentional ommission from National. With so many COs it's hard to make a one size fits all situation, so the things your CA needs to do is attend your troop's JLT, and then according to the syllabus, talk to the Chaplain to see what specific duties are required. Sounds to my like a special course from your CO would be a welcomed thing. Good Luck!!

It seems to me that the preferred method by National is to have Tigers use a seperate identity such as "Tiger Den" so I think the orange flag is a great idea. For Wolf and Bear dens they should be numerals, since it larger packs, you could have multiple dens of the same rank. Then Webelos get to do the Boy Scout thing of den names, like animals, or characters.

Are there any local hunt clubs or gun clubs in your council? We get about 1/2 our bullets this way. In your case, 1/2 won't be painless, but it will be a lot better than coming up with all the money yourself. Good luck!

HI Folks! I have provided answers to all sorts of questions in the past, now I'm looking to those I trust to do a "reality check" with. There is a rumor in our council (a couple of DEs and volunteers saying one thing, the SE and some volunteers saying the opposite) Please let me know. I've checked my resources, and I see no changes, but then out here on the left coast things take longer to get to us. Anyway, here goes... If a Scout (let's say he is 1st Class) transfers from his troop into a Venture Crew can he finish up his Eagle? I'm looking for NEW information, or lack there of, to support this question. Those that are saying "no" are saying it's a brand new thing. Thanks for your help. (I'm trying to shorten my post, and keep my opinion seperate, please weigh in if you have NEW information) YIS

Hi, First there is nothing in the National Rules to say you can't... but with that said let's look a little closer. Can you see that if you have to go meet a stranger and learn from them this could help you gain new skills that aren't related to the merit badge at all? Can you see how getting yourself to someone elses location (whether it be their home, their church, their troop location, a school, library or whereever doesn't really matter) at a predetermined time could help you later in life? How do you do that with Mom & Dad? I'm an old adult, let's just say that my son is a 4th Generation Eagle Scout (which is true), I worked on a MB with my father for 6 years. I never got it (in fact I felt relieved when I turned 18 because I knew that dad and I wouldn't have to fight about the requirements anymore). He was a counselor for one merit badge. My buddies told me how much fun it was, I tried it, it wasn't fun. See he wanted to make me have all the skill and knowledge he had. He was thrilled to have his only son express an interest in this MB... It was AWFUL, I felt horrible. Now why would I share this with you? Simple, are you prepared for them to be harder on you than anyone else? They won't mean to do it, but many parents have a hard time with this one. The other problem, is something that my Council put in place. We had a scout who finished his entire Scouting career with only mom & dad's signatures on everything. Mom was Committee Chair & Advancement Chair, Dad was Scoutmaster. They rotated merit badges so that he never had to go outside of their home. Let me help you, our Council is only 120 miles across on it's largest length. There are about 2,000 active Boys Scouts in this area. We have many troops (in my district there are just under 20 troops). See what they did? The parents took away the opportunity for this young man to learn some VERY IMPORTANT skills. I'm sure he learned them later. On the other hand, if your mom and dad are the only counselors for a specific MB, then by all means treat them just like any other MBC and HAVE fun. Get a buddy and knock it out... what's the current phrase "get 'er done!" Hope this helps!

I think when you go shopping there are certain things you need to look for, here's my list; 1 - Is your SCOUT happy? (I mean if they are having problems that are not safety issues, an experienced scouter can make a world of difference, is your SCOUT happy can't be fudged.) 2 - Are they running something that looks like the program? Remember many units have trouble getting to the full picture, you don't know the history of how they got to where they are at... etc. Are they headed in the right direction? 3 - Do you think you can be involved with the adults? If not check into helping as a UC, or as District/Council folk... Remember if 1 & 2 are met, but you can't hang with them, cause they pick their noses wrong, maybe you can be a resource for them, rather than a problem to them Good luck. In my case most folks around me and my unit end up on the District... must be Point #3 that's the problem

OK now I have a question. I've heard that when a Venture turns 18 he should change his Eagle Patch to an Eagle Square Knot. Is that correct? It makes sense to me, but before I go running around with false information I thought I'd ask. Also I was approached recently (I'm on the Council Venture Committee) by a new Venture Leader. He said that he has heard that Ventures can no longer earn Eagle. This is not correct, right? I'm under the understanding that as long as a Scout earns First Class before he leaves the troop he can work on anything he needs up to Eagle before his 18th birthday. Right? Good Luck in getting that award, but please remember the trip is almost as important as the destination.

I also use Dickey pants as my greys. I understand that you should use BSA issue, I just have a hard time spending that much money on clothes. I do have official green BSA pants and use them on my Boy Scout training courses. When I'm training Venture I explain that these are not the official pants, I have not seen anyone in the official pants.

It is my understanding that a much better resource for the Gold Award (not as a conclusion, but as a start) would be to sign up for First Aid Courses with the Red Cross. While First Aid Merit Badge is nice, it is no where near the level of response as full blown first aid courses from Red Cross.

Hi, Let's look at your two questions a little differently... 1 - Packs camp as often as they'd like, and think they can. I know good Packs that NEVER camp, and there are Packs in my district that camp more often than some Boy Scout Troops. It really is an individual Pack's decision. Honest... 2 - Local Boy Scout property is a good place. My council has two camps, one rather built up and developed the other rather rustic. You guessed it, Packs use either or both. I've also seen Packs use County/State/Federal campsites. What ever is closer, and whatever your Pack feels will help them. Since you are just getting started, who in your pack is BALOO trained? (BALOO is the Cub Scout based adult training that someone in your group has to have before you go camping. Many of your concerns will be addressed with this training) If you are still saying ????? contact your local shot office and ask about BALOO training. (I currently am preparing this course for our District this fall) The fact that you are concerned says two things. 1st (and most importantly) it says that when you guys go, you'll have fun. You aren't just going to throw things together, and hope they turn out OK. 2nd (and almost as importantly) it leads me to wonder if you are really ready. Your questions make me think that some more training may be needed. At roundtable (you attend those, right?) you should feel free to ask these kinds of questions, and get local answers. Good Luck, and HAPPY CAMPING

Hi, AwHeck brings up an interesting point, and I'm not convinced that s/he even knows it.

tortdog - I have just one question, you mentioned 4 or 5 units per ward? I'm just curious... 5?? Let's see Pack/Troop/Team/Crew & ??? to make 5? Don't mean to split hairs, oh heck yes I do... I'm trying to be a pain! How am I doing?? On the idea of lack of training that you've experienced, your Stake YM President needs to get closer with the district/council (all depends on how your stake/council boundaries work) commissioner. You know about UCs right? Are your bishopric counselor over YM serving this function? What about your bishopric conselor for Primary? There's two good guys that given a little training, could smooth the problems out. They could also drag the correct leaders with them to roundtables and trainings. (just like other units need (tips hat to Trevorum, and smiles) ) Good luck with this, it's what we did to make our stakes work more closely with our council. This is why the stakes in our council can show similar numbers of trained leaders. You know the push back can always be "Let's see what President Hinkely says... you'd do what he says wouldn't you?" Just be ready to walk the walk, not just talk the talk.

OK this has totally gotten off subject. The original thread had to do with how to help LDS scouts in "mainstream units". See I have problems with just the title of the post. Let me explain. 1 - As a Latter-day Saint, that happens to enjoy the hobby of Scouting, why if my congregation sponsors a unit do people hold it up as "not mainstream"? As has been mentioned the LDS church on a national basis sponsors more units than any other CO in the country. Also the typical LDS congregation (ward) in the USA sponsors an average of 2.5 units. How many other COs in your district sponsor multiple units? Where do you (not you individual poster, but rather you scouter) get off thinking we aren't main stream? 2 - I'm offended that you would even mention that someone that feels he is responsible for the spiritual life of the young men in his ward, would merely try to fill a chair. I thought a Scout was reverent (please refer back to Scout Handbook for Scout definition of reverence). I'm not asking that you validate my beliefs, I'm asking that you show respect for them. Bishops call youth leaders from what they determine to be the strength of their wards. 3 - You get all hung up on putting scouts together by age, and as a result of that, seperating them once they are out of the targeted age group. In many training materials that National provides your district training staff should be talking about two methods of creating patrols. One is aged based, the other just tries to put them together as friends. So why if a particular CO chooses can't they have their appointed leaders use one of those two methods? 4 - The shots about non-trained leaders. I can only talk about my one district in California. There are 25 Cub Packs. 18 qualify as trained at least two deep (National Standard, not some arbetrary number), however of the LDS units there are 8 with all 8 trained a minimum of 2 deep. We have 17 Boy Scout Troops, 12 are trained (would you be surprised if I told you that the 8 LDS units are all trained). Of the 8 Varsity Teams(gee this 8 number comes up a lot) all are trained. Of the 12 Venture Crews 9 are trained. You guessed it, ALL the LDS units have at least 2 trained leaders, while my non-LDS units don't have the same stats. Oh by the way, all the LDS packs go to Day Camp, while there are some other units that just can't seem to get it together. All the LDS troops and teams go to our local council scoutcamp. Our venture crews provide staff for the summer camp. Remember this is California, not Utah, Idaho, or Arizona. If training in your area isn't happening hold the people responsible that you should. Don't single out the LDS church, go after your commissioners. Now if Your DC can't find enough UCs he's not asking the right people. He needs to get the leadership of the LDS church to help (many stakes (groups of wards) will provide retired people to work with scout units if asked. Has your DC or DE talked to the Stake Presidents in their districts? They know who they are, you might not, but they do, just ask) I've watch this topic just twist and twist, and finally you pushed enough buttons to light me up. If folks don't want to participate with their ward's scout unit, that's fine, but don't go blasting about things that you don't understand, and that apparently you don't want to listen to. (now climbs off soap box, and heads back to seat... sorry for the rants)

I have been to over 100. I usually get a card, and include a check for $10 (OK when I actually know the scout I've been known to go to $20). With my involvement in the council, I get invited to many. I wondered if this was about right until my son had his Eagle CoH. Same amounts of gifts from many of the folks that were there. Many in our council have a meal, so there are expenses that are put on. My son paid for his trip from California to Northern Tier from his gifts from that afternoon. A gift is nice, but just showing up and telling the scout how great he is, really is a wonderful gift of self. Please don't be worried, just take your son go and enjoy the time.

amouse, Congrats on deciding to get invovled. It's a hard, good decision that you have made. May I put a different spin on this for you? Let's say you can't get Eagle, what happens now? Might I suggest to you that while your journey might end before other's, you can still decide how far you can get. Let's say that you find you don't have all the time you need. You can still make Life, or Star, or First Class or whatever. Why wouldn't having fun (one of the main purposes of Scouts) be any less important than what kinds of patches you can put on a particular pocket? Scouts is about helping young men gain good knowledge, and helping them decide how to make good decisions. Sometimes folks get too worried about things that look good, but aren't as important as helping young men grow up. Judging by your question, I get the feeling you are well on your way. Good luck with your journey, and don't worry about that pocket, worry about finding the joy that is available through good scouting.

What a great idea... I can tell I'll be venting here. I've been trying to loose weight for about six months, and have lost a total of 15 pounds. I'm 6'4" and would like to get down around 220, but that's over 40 pounds, and I'm stuck. Thanks for doing this. I'm glad to hear that there are others that are trying too.

Thanks for the GREAT post Bobwhite. In my council folks recognize me as a Scouter (I think I've mentioned enough of my hats in other posts) Folks are happy to see me at events, or training, or whatever. They know I'm gone come Saturday night, it's NO BIG DEAL. In my stake folks recognize me as a church leader, and are very positive and polite with me. When our LDS scouts and scouters find me at district/council events we get to share a bond. My question is what's so bad about that? The LDS unit leaders that see me at camporee, pinewood derby, or Eagle CoH all know that I'm very pro-scout, just like my Scout friends know that I may wish them well Saturday night/Sunday, I just feel for me and mine we're headed away to "do our best" to "do our duty to God". I thought this was already put to bed, guess not.

Hi, I'm an adult and so you can weigh my opinions on that scale. I worked on summer camp staff as a Scout. I have also inspected various camps all over California and have some observations for you. I have also been to several camps as an adult, and have watched staff. Lastly as we're talking about my credentials I've served as a program director (COPE) for a summer camp for a couple of summers. (Do you think we can talk now?) I have noticed that camp staffs that understand these few things do better. 1 - Yes this is stressful. 2 - Yes I'm not doing this for the money. 3 - Yes I love scouting. 4 - And yes I love helping younger scouts Where do you see yourself? Many of the camps I have inspected have lounges, or at least campsites for staff members that the campers know nothing about. This allows you to get away from that group of (size depends on capacity of camp, but plan on about 20%) loud, obnoxious 11 year olds. You'll need the down time. I have also seen many camps that expect their staff to have some down time. How much of this does your camp provide? While at home try to put on the "happy face" around your family for that length of time. Can you do it? Many of the camps I have inspected have programs (private swims, extra previleges, etc) that reward staff while they are in camp. What doesn this camp do? Many camps allow staff to leave for dinner away from dinning hall. How hard will it be to get off of the camp, and where can you go when you get off of it? Movie/Video nights away from campers are also a big deal. How many weeks are you to be there? If it's only a couple some of these items may not exist, if it's all summer, most of these and more should be. You mentioned that you'd be part of the water front. It has been my experience (both as a Scout, and in all the various roles I've had as an Adult) that there is a pecking order, and water front is usually on the upper end of it. This will help too. The guys/gals in the Trading Post and Dining Hall are usually on the lower end. Shooting sports, Water Front, and COPE usually make up the big three. Their experiences and the way they look at the campers is different. I hope that I have given you some help. You'll notice I didn't say "yes" or "no" to your question. That's because I don't know, BUT if you will check out my questions, talk to the senior staff, and ask them about the things that matter to you, you'll find your answer. Whatever you decide, good luck, and have a GREAT summer.

I too would be VERY opposed to putting all the LDS units into a single district. I think you already know my biases, but I'm very concerned that we all understand and try to get along. As has been mentioned, the only problem you'd really have is trying to get LDS and Jewish scouts to exist in the same unit. Also a camporee/camporall of just LDS and Jewish kids would present some challenges. The only time they'd all be together would be Saturday's campfire.

OK this is going to be long... I'm sorry, I'm just trying to get this so it's clear, honest. I dont' think it's that hard, but then that's only my point of view. Let's start off with an 8 year old LDS boy. After his 8th birthday, he gets to start Cubs. He works with a Den Leader for a year and they get his Wolf (that's the first rank, right?) badge. When he turns 9 he gets to go to a new den, and he starts working on Bear (now if I've got them wrong, don't think LDS give them out wrong, just think that I'm confused and used the wrong ranks, they do the Bobcat -> Webelos progression as they should). At 10? You guessed it, they get to advance to a new Den and Den Leader and this time, they work on Webelos skills. The Den Leaders usually don't advance, they are what stay behind and keep the units running. This is why some dens don't stay on the monthly themes, see if all of their boys are working on Bobcat, why worry about anything else? These Den Leaders may steal other month's themes as their boys need them. This is why they are doing what they are. (Hope this explains that for you) Now on their 11th birthday (not when they get Arrow of Light, but since they only get one year of Webelos this is almost the case) they advance to the New Scout Patrol. (We've talked about the Blazer Patrol already in other posts, but that's where this fits in) The differences in this compared to other Troop's NSP are: 1- The NSP ASM may continue for several years (in most of the other units I've seen the NSP ASM, if there even is one rotates among the ASMs); 2 - The NSP may sometimes go on outings with the troop, but more often that not go on patrol outings on a monthly basis; 3 - A scout stays here until his 12th birthday. No big deal so far right? Now let's tackle the rest of the Scouting units, but first we need to talk a little about LDS church organization. Local leadership (Bishop) decides under advisement from his leader (Stake President) how many units his local congregation (ward) will sponsor. I have seen wards sponsor 1 Pack & 1 Troop. I have also seen wards sponsor 1 Pack, 1 Troop, 1 Team, and 1 Crew (oh and by the way I've seen all the other combinations you can make off of that list). So our example has now been involved for a year, and really should be well on his way to at least First Class, right? He has had 3 nights camping (they only go over night 3 times during that 11 year old time), has been exposed to patrol outings, the patrol method, youth run, the PLC, older boys (granted if it's a big ward only the 12 & 13 year olds, in a small ward the PLC may be much closer to a traditional troop setting), mostly the whole package. Now is where things get different based on local leadership decisions. I'm going to break at paragraphs the difference between large and small wards, here goes. In a large ward, he enters one of the patrols of the 12 - 13 year old troop. (There are lots of ways to put scouts in patrols, that's not our topic here, so let's just say he's in one) He stays in the troop for 2 years, he works on advancement (at whatever level he's at), and after his 14th birthday becomes a member of the Team his ward is CO for. Advancement in Varsity is the same as Boy Scouts, so he just continues to work on that. The activity focus changes, but rank advancement continues. Now at 16, he is transfered to his ward's Crew. After five years of Scouting he should be very close to Eagle. If he is, he should finish that then. If he isn't (either because he's not interested, or has already accomplished the task) he has two years to earn any Venture awards he's interested in. Now he might not make Silver, nor Ranger, but so what? (It's not a big deal, we've had discussions in other threads that run along this line.) Here's the last twist, at 18 he ages out of Venturing (or not), usually 18 year old LDS youth are close to being done with High School, and when they head off to college their interests go another way. Now let's return back to our example, and let's say he's part of a small ward. He has his 12th birthday, and he now is promoted out of the NSP, and is placed in another patrol. These patrols are basically age based. You have a group of 12- 13 year olds, another that are 14-15, and the third that are 16-17. Depending on what the Bishop decides these patrols may stay together, or they may break on birthdays. They all are used to patrol outings, and all spend some time doing them. They also work together on troop outings. I hope from this that you can now see that advancement is not age based, unit registration is. You won't find many 14 year olds in the troop, if the ward sponsors a Team. I hope too that you can see why if you visit these units it may seem like things are very different. They are and they aren't... I hope I haven't muddied things any worse, again I'm sorry for the length of this post, it's a bit involved, but I hope you can now understand that the "differences" really aren't that big of a deal...