LPC_Thumper

All this talk about paper eagles got me to thinking... As I was finishing up my Eagle, my troop fell apart. I didn't realize it at the time, but as the changes that were introduced in the 70's came about, there were people that were upset because they viewed them as "destroying the program". I was a boy with all his merit badges done, his project completed, the write up just about finished and a SM that had declared he was done with Scouts and wasn't heading back. He did sign my paperwork, and took me to my board of review. After that, I didn't do any scouting, until my son was on his way. I guess that makes me a paper eagle... but let's hear the later part of the story I ran into the District Commissioner 12 years later, at a city festival (he had set up a booth looking for volunteers). That was 21 years ago. In that time I've only: Started a Troop at my church, and served as it's first SM Started a Pack at my church, and served as it's first CC Helped on another Troop as it got off the ground, and worked as an ASM, MC, & CC Served as a MBC for 20 years Served on the District and Council Committee Coordinated trips for boys to all 3 National High Adventure Bases Served on Summer Camp Staffs, helped with inspection teams for summer camps. Been on Woodbadge Staffs, attended Powder Horn, Attended National Camp School, both at Philmont, and at other locations in the Western Region. I have received the Silver Beaver, and another 16 Adult Leader Knots Had we stopped my story at 18, you would have said that I was a paper eagle, but looking back now, I think you'll find that I am nothing close to that. Be careful, please, when you start to catergorize people, sometimes, we don't easily go into your predefined roles. I think it's important that all get the chance to make it, we have to wait, sometimes for over a decade to see what they are going to do.

WHAT AN INTERESTING QUESTION... I've enjoyed the opinions, thanks for sharing. In my case I'm the Committee Chair for my son's former troop (he aged out, and is temporarily out of the area). I had served for many years as an ASM (while my son was in the program). I was the High Adventure Leader, and arranged trips to Philmont, Northern Tier, and The Sea Base. Our older boys loved it. Now all of our ASMs didn't do the training for the Trips, we didn't do the advancement camp outs. We tried to do Camporee and activities like that. We run 3 programs, new scout, experienced scout, and older boy. While we only run one trip per month, the target is one of these three groups. If there are boys that really want to go on a trip that is for a younger group than they are, they can be an advisor, and we as adults use their expertise. This means that as adults while we may back someone up because we want to go, we really are on the hook every three months. We have about 40 scouts, and about 10 adults that are trained and ready. This method works for us. When we are low on trained adults we'll take dads that have not yet been trained and then spend some time taling about how important training is. Hope this helps...

Some of the medic folks I've seen have gotten fairly creative with what they did. I know one that gave a weather report after examining the camp weather station (a large bolder near the flag assembly area) "Let's see the rock is hot to the touch, I think it's going to be clear today", "The rock is wet, I think it's rainy", or the ever popular "The rock is dark... it's after sundown!" Once this gets started and you get the campers attention, try these sage bits of wisdom... "Never put your hand down a hole", "If you aren't thinking about the bathroom, you obviously haven't had enough to drink", and "Remember eat all the food at the mess hall, but not all the food at the trading post!" You get campers laughing, and listening, and then you can teach. How far away from civilization is your camp? This may drastically effect what you need in your bags. The idea of talking to local Fire Department is a great one. Your job can be fun, and very rewarding, here's to a GREAT summer!

I have seen several boys take the objectives like: 1 - launch to an estimated elevation of X feet 2 - Try to land with a certain circle 3 - Hold a second successful flight (in other words be ready for a 3rd flight) Since skills vary among scouts, the requirement is vague so it can be a stretch for each of the scouts.

In an old course that shall remain nameless (but let's just say, "I used to be a Beaver...") I heard that we spend all this time trying to open the boy's mailbox of interest. When it is finally open one should throw as much of the proper kind of mail as one can until that box is closed. If a scout is willing to come to you, the box is open, get your mailbag and let's go!!

I feel fairly safe posting my comments about BoRs... I don't remember your name before, so let me just start by saying I'm a District Eagle Board of Review Chair (this is one of about 5 BSA hats I wear, not counting my "smokey") The Council Advancement Chair invited me to handle this position after he learned that EAGLE BoRs were taking about 2 hours each. The former chair had lost sight of his role. What can you possibly talk about for 2 hours? How do you keep from retesting, and certifying the Scoutmaster conference if you talk to a Scout that long? After review of the District Committee Book, especially in regards to Eagle Boards of Review, I decided that our goal would be from the time the Scout first sits down, to the time he knows what is going to happen next should be about 30 minutes. And you know what? It works fine. Now if 30 minutes can do the trick for Eagle, less time than that should be needed for Life. The hard parts of Boards of Review are when the Scout doesn't measure up. According to the handbook, you should list in writting what steps need to be done to be successful, and another Board should be scheduled. I share these points only to show what training can bring this situation. The only skills we test are: 1 - What's the Scout Law 2 - What's the Scout Oath 3 - What do these words mean to you now that you are trying to be an Eagle? All the other questions fall in the categories of: "What's your favorite...?" "Why do you think Scouts what you to...? "What didn't you like? What would you change?" And so forth. You see, you can't run too many of those before you run out of things to say. With questions like this, most canidates get geared up and start talking about the life as scouts. Good Luck!!

There are more than one way to do things. Speaking as an Eagle Board of Review Chair, let me share with you what my district does. There will be something similar in your district, just don't say that you read this on Scouter.com, and so your district is wrong... deal? The application has all the signatures, down to where it says District Representative (on the back of the form)? You have the completed Eagle Leadership Service Project folder down? (In my district we encourage the boys to build their own pamphlet, using the National Supplied one as a guide. For those that like to split hairs, no if a canidate doesn't do this, we don't turn it back to them) We ask for sealed letters from their references. References? On the front bottom half of the form there is a list of people that can be contacted, we ask the scout to have them supply these names with envelopes and stamps. One of the items I see forgotten frequently is the requirement about writting one's goals. I check for that before I contact their scout leader and set up the board. I hope this helps. What I would really insist that you do is talk to your district folks and verify that you have all the pieces. This young man has time to fix things in case they aren't complete right? Remember he only has to turn the application in before his 18th birthday, not hold the Board before that date. Your district/council has 90 days after the 18th birthday to get the board done. Good Luck, and enjoy this time, it really is fulfilling to watch your young ones pull things like this off.

My first exposure to a dutch oven was when my college roommate got married. His fiance was from a very rural area of the California Central Valley. Her father made dutch of chicken for us that he browned the outside of the chicken and then dug a pit layed a fire in the pit, put the DO in and then buried. He left it for about 8 hours. You want to talk about slow coooking. The chicken just feel off the bones, and was just about PERFECT. We sat around and ate until we couldn't stand up. It was one of those wonderful memories, I still think of that night as I use DOs with my scouts. You might want to try this technique at home first to verify that it works. It helps to resolves the fire watch issue, since the fire is basically out, and there is no spark danger. I have learned that ANYTHING that can be cooked in a crock pot can be cooked in a DO. Try it before you go so you can feel assured that it's going to work. And when you come across those recipes that create problems, you still have a fridge with food so you can recover from your mistake. Have fun, and good luck!

Hi Dan, Welcome... I would like to help you a tad with your uniform statements. According to several National Publications the Venture uniform is whatever the Ventures want it to be. I appreciate the differences between a Crew and a Patrol. My point is that the Crew can decide ANYTHING/EVERYTHING in regards to their uniform. Now they should pick out pieces of the uniforms of other groups (for example they shouldn't pick a Boy Scout Shirt with green loops, and Cub Scout pants) but they can design their own tee-shirt and wear it with shorts, and flip flops. While this might not be dressy enough for some, it would work. You're right that you CAN pick the green Venturing shirt, BUT you don't HAVE to pick that either.

I would echo what you have heard, but as I do that I think I can add a bit... I'm the Eagle Advancement chair for my district. I don't ask the Scouts "Now tell me, when did you start working on this project?" He KNOWS when he should do that, and to ask that question is to lecture to him (imo). I've had scouts call me to ask if this project would be a good idea or not because thier adult leaders were stumped, and then it takes YEARS to hear from them again... Sometimes they have the same project sometimes they don't. I wouldn't worry about them looking, I'd worry about them making a rock solid plan and putting it in place before they make Life.

I'm going to side with BSmom on this... come one guys we've got new parents here, let's help some. My comments are coming from a former Scoutmaster/former Camp Inspection Staff Member/Current Troop Committee Chair. If you can't read my smile, and my occasional wink, rest assured they are both functional, and available. Also understand that I'm seated, not standing and shouting. It has been my experience that many camps have communal showers for the boys. And since we are dealing with new boys that are either 11 or have just finished 5th grade and PE shower rooms are yet to be discovered. So they don't think the showers are private enough, and so they don't use them. Don't hesitate to talk to other parents (we're in this together) or have your son talk to the experienced scouts. Don't be surprised if some of the items you send don't get used. He'll do better after a year of PE, honest. My wife meets me at the door after a week of camping and says, "OK we're keeping this, I'm NOT TOUCHING THAT!!!" etc. My son and I have gone to Philmont, she was happy to see us when we returned after 2 weeks, and on our way home for some reason she kept the car window down. When we got home she had us take our packs next to the garbage cans and we went through our stuff, and threw things away. When we went to Northern Tier, we were able to do that without her promptings. We hose down and air out things like backpacks, dishes, sleeping pads. We go to laundromats to clean sleeping bags. BUT clothes many times are not kept because they are just trashed. If you have a son that has grown a bunch, DON'T spend money that is going to be thrown, just know that there is no reason to buy new items. If he enjoys this, he'll put together supplies on his own, and just let him. I hope this helps, and I hope I haven't sounded too critical. It can really be a great learning opportunity.

Thanks John, over-looked those. Should have listed Religious knot, and I'm with you the West awards are not that common... Thanks for getting that correct.

We have our Committee Meeting the same night and in the same hall as our CO. It is not uncommon for each group to visit with each other before/after their respective meetings. We have done things for them, and they have provided a yearly donation. When we use that money, we thank them for the new (whatever we spent the money on). They raise money for lots of groups, and they have gotten to the point with us that they tell us how much to ask for. I mean if someone told you to ask for $2,000, would you? And then what happens when you ask, and they GIVE it to you. Then they next year they tell you to ask for $2,100? We put their name on our flag, we do a flag ceremony for them whenever, where ever they want. They like it. We bought a uniform with the right patches (in place) for our COR. Then we invite him to Courts of Honor. When he shows up at troop meetings, he's there in his uniform. We always recognize him. We make sure the boys know what he helped us buy. THEY talk to him. Many times nothing more than "Hi" or "that water filter thing is cool", but then you be him and have these kids talk to you... It works for us.

Also don't be discouraged, or think your troop is bad, or anything like that if you don't get an answer you like. Since this is a local question, and FRANKLY SINCE THIS DOESN'T COME UP VERY OFTEN, don't be too surprised if you get deer in the headlight looks as you ask. But you do need to ask, and see what they think. I also agree that when your nephew starts in his troop even though it is week 53 with no break, it really appears as being week 1. Remember there are only a few badges you carry with you from Cub Scouts to Boy Scouts (those badges are Arrow of Light, and the Heroism Awards). It's a new day, and therefore a new time for an award that he likes. I wonder how many kids have earned this award as a Cub and then as a Boy. I don't know any. I don't know many Boy Scouts that can wear that award. It'll be neat in 51 weeks to be able to wear that award as a Boy Scout, and then when they ask him what the award is to have him explain it, and mention that this is the second time he earned it...

In my troop we do a couple of things that many locals have commented on, so here goes... Every year we hold 3 "Advancement Campouts". The campout schedule reflects the idea that this campout will help accomplish either Tenderfoot, 2nd Class, or 1st Class. Of course, if you miss the campout, you can arrange with an adult to have them help a young scout get those skills. If you're on a campout before the associated campout, and you already know the skill, you can have an adult sign you off for that as well. It works for us, and we find that our first year guys are finishing up 1st Class about a year into their time. We have problems with our boys not leaving and therefore being available for an older boy program... This helps too.

Too busy to do scouts? Well here is what we do... We have 2 ASPLs, this started when one boy (whose parents are divorced) was voted in as the SPL, and knew he was going to have to spend many long weekends, and in fact would miss summer camp because his absent parent insisted on their parental rights, and would not allow this scout to attend outings. He was smart enough to ask for a second ASPL rather than hang his only ASPL out. It worked. Then with our troop of 50 scouts, it just got easier to have these three run the meetings. We have had California state champions in individual sports (things like cross country, tennis, and golf) come to scouts late (in their sports clothes) uniform drapped over their arm, and head for the bathroom. 5 minutes later, there are the scouts we know and love. We've had SPLs that played team sports (like football, basketball, baseball, and water polo) show up and do the same thing. In fact we have one coach from our High School, beg the SM to please tell a scout that he was needed on a team, rather than scouts. Too busy? We've had scouts that score perfect SATs, that are at Service Acadamy's, heck one of "our" boys has a full ride to an Ivy League School. Too busy? Nope... bored, not involved, not their program? I'll let you decide that one. Boys will always rise to the level you want them to rise to. They will decide what matters. If you don't allow them to run a meeting, then they are too busy. If you fall into ruts then they are too busy. If on the other hand you convince them that they can do what ever they want, and then hold on while they do it, you'll be amazed. We took a group of "jocks" and "brains" to Northern Tier. They BOTH loved it, they sit around now that they are out of scouts, and talk about the good old days when it rained, and they ate cold oatmeal since they couldn't get their stoves to light. They show up and say "Hi". Now when I said they can do anything, they knew that we would look at their ideas and as long as they weren't disallowed in G2SS, then we'd let them go for it. Notice I didn't say "we'd do it for them." They as a troop raised THOUSANDS of dollars to take trips, because they found out that there were 3 National High Adventure Bases, and they wanted to do them all. Which they did. As adults we just held on for dear life. They as the leaders of our troop, lead. Were they busy? You bet! Were we proud? You bet! Is it happening now? After a years rest, we're gearing up again!

What do you do now? It's a matter of safety... come on guys you're sharper than this... What do we do now? Simple, whenever there's an event that is going to require water exposure aren't you supposed to have swim checks? I can't quote chapter and verse from G2SS, but isn't that what Safety Afloat says? Let's see, if you don't pass swim check, what do you do? Now that you've pointed this out to the young man, you hold to the rule. No pass the swim test, no canoeing, no sailing, no whatever. You don't run him up the flag pole, you just let him know when the swim checks are and that to go on the trip you must pass a swim check. Come on, when you get to camp what happens that first day? They look at your boy's shirts, and say, "Oh 1st Class or higher no swim check for you!" Or do they say "1st day of camp, here's the water front, better get your suit!" I'm trying for a smile here, if instead you read my words as "ringing from the rooftops" sorry... This doesn't have to be a bad thing, just hide behind the program and do your thing, it's going to be fine.

Let's take this one step further... The CO provides a place to meet. I'd say that mattered. The CO provides a resource for leaders. Either financial, or with a list of volunteers. Again, I'd say that mattered. The CO may reflect a voice in the District & Council. The COR/IH get to tell the SE what they want done, the SE tries to balance all their demands. Again, I'd say that mattered. The sad part is that many times these resources go untapped, and therefor their role can be viewed as not mattering...

Both of those jobs (and we're only talking those jobs, rather than "What does a Commissioner do?") is easy to write on paper, but hard to actually do. They coordinate the work of the Commissioners. Obiviously the Council Comm works through the District Comm to ensure that each unit in the Council gets what they need. The District Comm then works with the Unit Comm to ensure that the data actually gets to those that need it. Don't mean to be glib, just trying to not be too verbose.

Sorry we do this the old fashioned way, everything is on paper. There is a picture of our opeing assembly on the district website, in case you want to check up on me (not that you doubt me, but hey...) www.liveoakbsa.org (check in the Gallery, the rest should be easy. I'm the funny looking guy in the front) Any other questions about what we do? Good Luck! They do a GREAT service, and are actually as much fun as camp.

Thanks all... I guess the 14 by the first day of Jambo is our council? That's interesting! I can check for him with the neighboring councils since there are 3... I guess our council to the west would be from Hawaii? I really thought there was going to be a Jambo in 2010. It'll be interesting to see if that really hits. I do remember the talk about having one in 2000. Sure would help a bunch if they really did hold it again in 4 years. I was just curious if others were facing this problem, sounds like they aren't. It's going to be interesting to see how the "good old boy" club at Jambo handles this mess. Thanks folks!

Yes we run 3 consecutive 1/2 day Saturdays. It works best trying to get the adults together. This year we offered: American Heritage Astronomy Aviation Cit in the Community Cit in the Nation Cit in the World Communications Computers Cooking Crime Prevention Dentistry Emergency Prep Family Life Fingerprinting & Law (we run FP 1 wk, & L for 2) Fire Safety First Aid Fishing Fly Fishing Genealogy Graphic Arts Home Repairs Indian Lore Insect Study Journalism Music Personal Fitness Personal Management Photography Reptile Study Space Exploration Sports Theater Weather Woodcarving When you go over that list you'll see there are some that just won't get done. The counselors make sure the boys know that, and the counselors have any concerned parents call me, and we talk about it. We do get the new parent every year that has to have their son compress a 90 merit badge into the 21 days so that they can make Eagle, just like we have the scouts sign up for the same class year after year thinking that this is the year they will complete the homework in class. (for example, no matter how hard Mr. McC tried to convince this one young man, he insisted on sitting in his class(Citizenship in the Community) for 4 years. Mr. McC finally took him to a city council meeting.) It has worked well for us. The other chairman and I are both PTC trained for summer camp, so we run our areas with the same ideas as camp. You'll have folks try to run around the requirements, but when they figure out you're serious, they'll play straight. If you need any other help, please just let me know. YIS, Thumper

Not sure where to put this, so I thought this would be a good place. If not just shoot me... Last night after our meeting, a 13 year old scout came up to me and asked a question. I had no idea how to respond, but told him I have friends that I talk to about all sorts of scout things, so I'd ask them... here's the question. Since he is too young to go to Jamboree this year, and the next one will be in five years, when will he get a chance to go to Jamboree as a youth? He understands that not everyone goes to Jambo, BUT everyone should be given the chance. Has anyone heard if National has even considered the young men that are just too young this year, and will be just too old in five years? I told him it was my understanding that BSA always tries to be fair to all, and that they will surely have a plan for guys his age, it isn't just that we ganged up on him. We talked about Ventures being over 18 and considered as youth members, but we don't want to force him into a crew... If you haven't heard about this problem, that cool, I'm looking for people that may know something that I can tell this young man. If he were just six months older our council troop would be well served having him as a member, but he's stuck for this year. Thanks!

Let me run over the schedule for you, you'll see why we do what do (I think)... 8:45 Opening (Last minute announcements (there will always be those), flag salute, and we offer a prayer) 9:00 Session 1 10:00 Session 2 11:00 Session 3 12:00 Session 4 Now here's a few more things we do. Each class is 50 minutes. We provide snacks for the scouts. Set them out at 8:30, and have them during passing times. We close up shop at 12:50. They are on their own for lunch. Each session is a different class (merit badge), except for First Aide. We run that as a two hour block. We give them time to work on requirements during the week, so that's why we don't do Saturday and Sunday. Oh and the other thing... we use our local LDS Stake Center. This provides us with 28 seperate teaching stations (some indoor, some outdoor, all have at least a cover) Your college sounds great. Are you going to provide for more than one merit badge? There aren't many (besides Fingerprinting) that we have found could be handled in a day. We may not be doing what you do, so my information may not help. Hope this helps, and good luck. They are a lot of work, but VERY rewarding.

What works for us is to have each individual District Advancement Committee (this really ends up being a group of 4 or 5 UCs, and some district folk, nobody other than Advancement Chair does this every year, just the way it works out)uses the back cover of the requirements book, and contacts all counselors. The checklist of questions is: 1 - Are you willing and able to help this next year? 2 - Are you current on YPT? 3 - Did you have any problems we should be aware of? 4 - (If applies) We noticed that the requirement book lists your merit badge as one that has changed. Are you aware of the changes? We can get all of our counselors called the first two weeks of November. It is an effort, but as I read about what others are working with, it is well worth it. We can then draft up a new list in time for January's Roundtable, and hold any orientation we need that night too. (I'm not saying this is the only way, just A Way that works for us)