le Voyageur

ML I'm in agreement with you on this one, too many right wing Christian fundies are pushing way to hard to make this organization a monotheocratic movement based on their narrow percepts. There is room for all, morals are found in every culture, and in every belief system. BSA's consistance refusal to emerge from a past that tramples First Admendment rights, and a Government that turns a blind eye to these abuses sends the wrong and a mixed message that discrimination is okay when done in the name of the Almighty...

Maybe this could be a possible for a 3 day weekend.... Salisbury, Maryland to Lewes, Delaware to Cape May, New Jersey via the ferry... or... Salisbury, Maryland to Williamsbug, Va. via Tangier Island.... or... do an internet search using "Rails to Trails, Virgina", or Rails to Trails, Maryland" lots to pick and choose from at these sites.......

Been giving it a pause to rethink if I'm shoehorning this concept. I don't think so! Consider Zen which is just as nihilistic as atheism. Maybe it can be reasoned thus, that there is both an atheism of disbelief; as well as an atheism of nihilistic gnosticism which does seek to discover the non created elements of the Supreme Truth as seen in the practise of Zen....

I posted some info on this topic at your cycling thread. The New River trail would be great for the age group in your unit......

Rooster, This one isn't downhill, but it's 57 miles of great riding, or backpacking... For info on the New River trail see.... http://www.cccyclery.com/geninbg.htm

Here's the site for one my favorite backpacks if you want to lighten up a bit. http://members.tripod.com/lwgear/lwg.html

Guys, guys, .....please, please take the time to realize that there are numerious idealogies out there of interest to a few of us. If you have something to contribute on the topic at hand please do so, but if possible, please share your personal views on your religion on another thread. Consider the 5th point of the Scout Law...thanks *

First, apologies for the confusion, but also for the typos. The fingers do get confused from time to time on the keyboard. And yes,dispite the typos, the subject is about atheism, being the "disbelief in the existence of deity". And to correct another err, Kolob is not the home of Sophia, but a responce to NJ's statement..."And I surely didn't know that there is a religion that says that the "God of the Hebrew Scriptures" has a father and a mother...." Just pointing out for NJ a religion that does teach this. However, Mormonism is also an excellant example of a gnostic faith that this topic can be worked from. Now gnosis is the belief of an "unknowable" Supreme God, both "created" and "non created" who creates through the actions of the Aeons, as well as the Demiurges. In Mormonism this gnos is seen in their Creation Story told in their Temple Endowment ceremonies. In this story Elohim (the Supreme God) directs Jehovah and Michael (the Demiurges) in the creation of the Heavens and Earth. After their labors Michael is put in a deep sleep by Elohim to reawaken as Adam, and so begins mankind. From this, it can be seen that Mormonism has embraced the "created" elements of a Supreme Being who they consider was at one time corporial, a belief which rejects the "non created". Thus could it not be reasoned that Atheism "is" a gnostic faith that accepts the "non created" elements which rejects the "created"?

NJ Per your last paragraph do an internet search using this key word... "Kolob"

Prior to BSA putting the Dale Lambert bruhaha on the back burner decided to revist the philosphy of atheistism. Came across this quote on the subject which took me by suprise due to it's hermetica nature, the quote goes.... "I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one less god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." To understand where this is going, consider that gnosticism regards within it's philosphy that the Supreme Father God, or Supreme God of Truth is remote from human affairs, and is unknowable and undetectable by human senses, that this diety created a series of supernatural but finite beings called Aeons. One of these was Sophia, a virgin, who in turn gave birth to a defective, inferior Creator-God, known as the Demiurge, that is the God of the Hebrew scriptures... Thus, my ponderings have me wonderings if atheistism/agnosticism is the domain of the aeon Sophia who's purpose is make the Supreme God truly unknowable by misleading with the Demiurge.. Any philosphers wanting to tackle this one????

Desertfication is often seen in the traditional sense as to what is now happening in northern Africa. However it is the man made deserts of cities, urban spraw, and roadways being created to meet the demands of an ever increasing population that are one of many problems impacting industrialized nations. In the past, the solution to obtain more room was through conquest. I've a feeling that policy will be revamped with a fury in the future...base survival knows only the laws of the jungle...

Scoutldr read your profile, looks like we're in the same Council. Small world...

The study is too short sighted and does not address the time span in question. That is, the human population growth over the the next 1,000 years...here's my caculations, in the year 2017 npg (net population growth) will exceed 15 billion, by 2050/55 near 40 billion, and in 1,000 years, over 450 billion. here's a site for some easy basics for understanding the problem that we humans are creating.... http://darwin.bio.uci.edu/~sustain/bio65/lec16/b65lec16.htm we need to start preparing the next few generations as guides for future generations on their way back to the stone age....

On the subject of waterproofing canvas I'm now nearing the end of my current project, the making of a "ration bag" out of two canvas tote bags found at Wally World. The bag has been dyed a dark brown using a walnut dye, and coated with a fairly thick application of boiled linseed oil which will require about a week to dry becoming quite waterproof afterwards. However, to ensure absolute water proofness, the seams will be coated with beeswax...

One day, but not within any of our lifetimes my hope is that mankind's insanity for religions will cease for a more holistic and unifying search for the spiritual. Until then, we few outriders must be content to sell mirrors in the land of the blind. Now, another war on the horizon with petty men choosing for God the side that He must take...this is madness

A lightweight mess kit for backpacking... a small plastic bowl, cup, and a lexan spoon Cost, about a 1.50

One day a father of a very wealthy family took his son on a trip to the country with the firm purpose of showing his son how poor people can be. They spent a couple of days and nights on the farm of what would be considered a very poor family. On their return from their trip, the father asked his son, "How was the trip?" "It was great, Dad." "Did you see how poor people can be?" the father asked. "Oh yeah" said the son. "So what did you learn from the trip?" asked the father. "The son answered, "I saw that we have one dog and they had four. We have a pool that reaches to the middle of our garden and they have a creek that has no end. We have imported lanterns in our garden and they have the stars at night. Our patio reaches to the front yard and they have the whole horizon. We have a small piece of land to live on and they have fields that go beyond our sight. We have sevants who serve us, but they serve others. We buy our food, but they grow theirs. We have walls around our property to protect us, they have friends to protect them." With this the boy's father was speechless. Then his son added, "Thanks dad for showing me how poor we are." Too many times we forget what we have and concentrate on what we don't have. What is one person's worthless object is another's prize possession. It is all based on one's perspective... (author unknown)....

This should work now... http://www.cnn.com/2002/SHOWBIZ/12/09/rawhide.kid.gay/index.html

Yep! This cowboy has gone swish..... http://www.CNN.com/2002/SHOWBIZ/12/09/Rawhide.Kid.gay/index.html

I'm in agreement with BP, my only exception is in the use of the word religion. This implys submitting oneself to a fixed and rigid theology whereas, spritualism would be more apt. Spritualism allows one to explore their own relationship with their Creator without the fixed boundries of organized religion. For myself, I would love to see, not only the Wiccans, but also Native Americans create their own programs of spiritual studys which could, and should be included in BSA religious award programs....

High tops, lace up, steel toe work boots..

Three Sisters Pottage is an easy to make stew of beans, corn and squash/pumpkin here's a general recipe (mine follows the eastern woodland tradition, however, it's an easy recipe to adjust and modify to taste) http://www.care2.com/channels/solutions/food/298

Sorry...no turkey recipe. It's venison and Three Sisters pottage here....

If you live in, or near the Tidewater area, the City of Chesapeake will be hosting "The Battle of Great Bridge" on the 7th and 8th of Dec.. might be a good time to bring your scouts out and get them interested in the American Heritage mb. Here's the schedule... http://cityofchesapeake.net/cal/pdf?pdf=66 If you're a Rev. War re-enactor and would like to take part send me a pm for the info...

When the Scout Oath and Law, along with National's policies become the law of the land then I'll be agreement with this forum. However, peeking under the Sybil stone, some day down the road the Supreme Court will decide against the BSA and enforce the First Admendment. When that day comes, we better have a Plan B in our back pocket...Just think that it's time for us to get our heads out of the sand and figure out a way to protect BSA's core values in this changing world....