le Voyageur

For merit badges and possible changes these are my thoughts Consolidat: Coin, and Stamp Collecting into the more general Collecting badge. American Heritage, and Indian Lore into a Living History badge Bring back Stalking Restructure... Cycling - open it up more for options in BMX, Downhill, Single Track, Touring, Commuting, Road and Velodrome racing, and Adventure Cycling Climbing - an option for alpine climbing would challenge the older scout. This badge needs to add anchor and pully systems into the requirements. Change Orienteering to Path Finding, adding a land navigation option, (GPS, UTM c0-ordinate syste,, etc.) For a new merit badge, but only for the older scout (15 and up) Wildnerness Rescue - introduces the scout to the fundlementals of back country rescue work and basic river rescue.

No, I hope that is not something that I'm saying, and I hope that it is something that I'm not implying. Let me back up a bit and change the title of this program that I'm thinking about from a guide service to this....Venture Crew Commissioner, something akin to a Unit Commissioner, but taps into folks who are high adventure specialists and who's primary focus is on crews just getting started. The goal being to get these crews out camping as soon as they get that charter, and to assist those brand spanking new adult leaders in learning wilderness and camping skills...does that seem to better described what I'm trying to do????

OGE I tend to think that this reading of the rules is much to literal. Don't think a Council's list would be any different from that of a for profit guide service. A Council's list would serve as a prescreening since certification does not quarantee experience. Consider this, would you want your 14 year old son/daughter on a white water trip with some Scouter's fishing buddy leading the trek who's only certification is "Safety Afloat", and who's only experience on water is sitting in a fishing boat. Don't think that this happens, sad to say, it does. For myself I've spent a lot of time during summer camp staff weeks teaching the camp's newly certified BSA Aquatic Director the finer points of guarding waterfronts (rivers and lakes) because their training is focused on pools. I also recall a video showing a rescue of a scout on the American River who was pinned between a bridge abutment and his boat. The kid was saved, but it was close, another 10 or 15 minutes and hypothermia would of killed him. The truth is, the unit leaders were not qualified to lead a such a trek, even though the river at that time was to the untrained or rather the inexperienced eye, running at an easy CII, well within the standards as set forth in BSA Guidelines. What the Unit Leaders failed to take into condsideration was water temperature on a river being fed by snowmelt. A seasoned river runner would of upped the river's classification to CIII and takened a lot more precautions. Are these Unit Leaders fully accountable for this near fatal accident...don't think so, the Council is also at fault for okaying the tour permit allowing this trip to take place with unqualifed leaders. And, the parents are at fault for failing to inquire about the leaders qualifications for such a trip before signing the release form. Maybe I'm tinkering with the rules somewhat, but there is a lot at stake here. The river guides that I train for summer camp are taught one very important and unbreakable rule..."No scout goes home in a body bag!"

OGE Gotta use the buddy system...however, there is no such thing as a 100% safe program. At NOLS in their Wilderness Educator course we train in risk management, dividing risks into the objective and subjective, thus a scout is an objective risk...ie, he might get lost, or hurt, or just plain wander off for the sake of wandering off... therefore the buddy system, plus a whistle on everybody, and this includes the adults. Also, trying to locate a lost or injured person in the backcountry is a hard task no matter what they may be wearing. A few years back we had to locate a whole troop of lost girl scouts, and their leaders somewhere in 20,000 acres of wilderness, took nearly 8 hours of running a grid search section by section to find all 12 of them, and none were wearing camo's....

The purpose of this program is to provide crews with a list of folks with expertise superior to theirs, or having certifications that they lack in order to complete the more hazardous and demanding Ranger requirements only...Whitewater, Climbing, C.O.P.E., Hunting, etc. There will be no guides for any of the requirements that need no certification.

This is not a site of scouting songs per your request...but, with a little work you'll find some great material for a evening campfire and sing along http://www.contemplator.com/folk.html one of my favorites http://www.contemplator.com/folk2/tallmen.html

This is not a site of scouting songs per your request...but, with a little work you'll find some great material for a evening campfire and sing along http://www.contemplator.com/folk.html

Tend to think that for backpacking, camos are great as they blend into the enviorment and reduces the visual impact of backcountry travelars. Just a variation of Low Impact/Leave no Trace as I see it. However for river running, I prefer my crews to be wearing very bright colors in red, orange or yellow....

Need a bit of feed back on an item that I will be introducing to our Council's Camping Committee in a few weeks...here, more heads are indeed better than one...here's my thoughts With more and more Venture Crews coming on line, I've been thinking about creating a program akin to merit badge counselors for these folks. The program for the now is simply called Ranger Guides, and who, like MBC's will provide their expertise as a program resource for crews working on Ranger requirements to tap into.... now, your thoughts........

Good topic... Here's my thinking Consolidate: Coin and Stamp Collection badges into the more general Collecting Badge. American Heritage and Indian Lore into a Living History merit badge Bring back the following: Stalking Restructure the following Cycling: open it up more so that scouts can explore the many different genres of this sport...for example, BMX, Single Track, Downhill, Adventure Cycling, Touring, Commuting, Road and Velodrome racing to name a few.... Climbing: an option for alpine climbing would be nice for older scouts who would want to experience a higher level of challenge. The badge needs to add anchor and pully systems into the requirements. Change the following: Orienteering to Path Finding, adding a Land Navigation option (GPS, UTM co-ordinate system, etc.)into the requirements. For a new merit badge I would like to see... Wilderness Rescue -introduces the older scout (14+) to the fundlementals of back country rescue work. Since this would also include basic river rescue, the scout would need Swimming, Lifesaving as well as the First Aid merit badge.

Spent a little time over at another forum loaded with hard core military patriots (combat veterns), and posed the same observation concerning the wearing of the American flag on uniforms (BSA, law enforcement, etc), t shirts, fobs, skivies and etc. The consensus is that the only place for our flag is not on the above mentioned items, but properly displayed, or flying from a staff, or covering the honored dead...I guess we can agree to disagree on this subject as I still stand by my convictions...this is my final post on this subject

Thanks for the welcome, and I'll try and be more careful with the way I frame my thoughts and comments in the future, if I should post something in the future that seems oblique, fuzzy or just plain weird just let me know with a big "heh!"...good to meet all. Now I'll go an sit in my timeout corner for a while........

Guys, guys...lets back off a bit and catch our breaths...didn't mean to start a flame war...so lets start over and say howdy to one another. First, I'm new to this site. However, I've been in scouting since 1957. I love this organization with a passion that at times can be blunt. In scouting I serve as our Council's Campmaster, along with duties as a Unit Commissioner in a very rural county. Every now and then I get to work on training teams for Scouters and Venture crews. Also teach mountaineering and rock climbing, plus I'm a regional inspector of C.O.P.E. courses.... Come summer you'll find me working as the trek director for the Blue Ridge Mountain Council's Voyageur Trek, a expedition, white water canoeing program which will be featured in an upcoming Boy's Life article.... so there's me history in a nut shell....again, sorry for getting all on the wrong foot...so guys, what's your job in this game of scouting, hey..........

Folks, seems that your focus as to what I'm trying to say is as narrow as your viewpoints. Guess having an open mind, and looking at a suggestion from a different perspective is sometime you don't understand, and which by you're example you'll pass this trait on to your scouts. Shame on you....... First, I prefer the flag to be flying high and proud, not on a uniform shirt lying in the dirt, which I've seen many a times at scout camps. Not only are the boys guilty of this, but so too, are many adults. I've removed mind, I don't need to be decked out in flags to be an American. My two Purple Hearts and Bronze Star are dues for my citizeship that I've paid for in blood. Second, the Training patch and that ugly brown Joining badge are redundant. The World Botherhood badge would be the better choice to replace it with and to reconize training. Are we not trying to teach worldbotherhood...or is the BSA the only scouting organization in the world? Additionally, why should I wear a Trained patch centered between my UC patch and commissioner arrowhead. Looks so dumb..... So please, before you get on your little soap boxes, try and put the stump speeches aside,along with the cheap shots and think about what a person is trying to say, you might see a different perspective.......and remember the Scout Law, try starting with courteous.....

One great ideal that doesn't give the scout options, sort of, do it or else. A better way would be to offer choices, these are mine.... - The traditional Eagle Scout service project OR - Working at a scout camp (seen many fine scouts working their hearts out at camp in an active leadership role. As I recall, the orginal intent of the Eagle Scout service project was to be a vehicle to foster leadership development (I have great respect for those scouts who have spent a long hot summer building scouts instead of park benches...don't make sense to reward them with additional work that's not needed).

A new scout uniform fit for outdoors activies which doesn't require selling the farm to buy. Not everyone gets to wear an NCS patch when working at a scout camp. Using the figure 8 knot as the design of choice, create a "squareknot" patch using different colors to denote the program area worked in. Create a special Eagle patch that can be worn on an adult's left uniform pocket. The Eagle square knot doesn't work, and often, fails to identify scouters who earned the rank. Create a blank "squareknot" to attach Eagle Palms to. Redesign some of the more uglier merit badges, i.e., Cooking, Indian Lore, Crime Prevention, Climbing to name a few.....

Here's my list of things that can be dropped.... - The American Flag on the uniform.... - The Training Strip, not needed, use the World Brotherhood patch as the replacement. - The ugly brown Scout joining patch, use the World Brotherhood patch as the replacement. - The Stamp Collecting and Coin Collecting merit badges, tie them all into the Collecting merit badge.