Kudu

Even if it's only partially successful' date=' I'll take it. I'm not going to get a patrol system like Kudus or Jblakes[/quote']

 

 

Um, you mean "a Patrol System like Baden-Powell's or Green Bar Bill's," which is to say Scouting in the rest of the world.

 

In my retirement, I am in a similar situation as our young Sentinel: The only local Troop was adult-led and focused like a laser beam on Eagle. I didn't want to be a Scoutmaster again, so it has taken years to change Troop culture.

 

In other posts I have detailed how I chose to work on a High Adventure program first. It is easier to start ad hoc Patrol Hikes and space those Patrols 300 feet apart on backpack trips, because the indoor adults and indoor Scouts stay away

 

 

 

So, I'll ask the question flat out... How does one manage a troop that has it's patrols 300' apart? It simply can't. And that's the rub.

 

Stosh

Yes, that's what the oft-quoted Troop Method rules are for: To keep the six-month Patrol Leaders weak, so that "Real" Patrols are viewed as an irresponsible pipe dream.

As for Sentinel's question:

Has anybody used this specific training program? Anybody who hasn't, but reads it what are your thoughts?

As the title "Introduction to Leadership Skills for Troops" (ILST) implies, this is Troop Method Training.

It appears to be written by the same Wood Badge committee that produced the Program-Neutered 25 minute "Patrol Method" presentation in Scoutmaster Specific Training.

To Program Neuter is to surgically remove the Patrol Leader and any description of a working Patrol from the "Patrol Method," presumably so as not to offend Den Leaders and Venturing Advisors. :-)

Note that in ILST, the term "Patrol Leader" appears only in references to three outside materials:

1) Materials Needed (Patrol Leader Handbook).

2) The job descriptions from those cheesy wallet-sized cards.

3) And the Wood Badge holiest of holies: Troop Method Organizational Charts!

In the ILST course, the term "Patrol Leader" has been replaced by such euphuisms as:

"Scouts"

"Scout leaders"

"Scouts in leadership positions"

"Scouts in charge of each team,"

And (in the right context) my new personal favorite:

"Less-senior Scout leaders."

Likewise in ILST, as in most Troop Method Training courses, in place of working Patrols, the usual reference is to "teams" and "team building":

"Introduction to Leadership and Teamwork Session

"What do we mean by “team� The word “team†applies to any group working together on a

common goal. It can be a temporary group that meets once to solve a particular problem, or it

can be a permanent group. In Scouting, the team could be the patrol leaders’ council, a group of

backpackers, or an entire troop."

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/tr...%20511-016.pdf

Presumably "The Cook and Dish-Wash Artist Formally Known as Patrol" does not qualify as a team in "Scouting."

When Troop Method Training refers to Patrols at all, it is usually in the team-theory form of "troop or patrol" to show that all teams are the same.

So, is it hopeless?

Only if you look to the content of BSA Training for "Real" Patrols.

Marshal McLuhan once said "The Medium is the Message." If you camp your ad hoc training Patrols 300 feet apart, send them on a Patrol Overnight, and always call attention to Physical Distance, then the Message will live on long after the corporate team-building exercises have been forgotten.

Yours at 300 feet,

Kudu

http://kudu.net

My hope is that the patrol leaders gain some practical experience being a patrol leader from this trip and can take it back to their real patrols.

Sentinel,

You use William "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt's term "Real Patrols," which means Patrols in which the Patrol Leader moves his Scouts through Physical Space.

The quickest route to such Patrol Awareness is to physically separate your ad hoc Training Patrols by Baden-Powell's 300 feet, as was once the common custom in American Wood Badge.

Make sure you call their attention to that Physical Space. It seems obvious, but it is not.

Also from American Wood Badge is the Patrol Hike and Patrol Overnight, which you could do Saturday night. The idea being that "Real" Patrols can conduct Patrol Hikes and Patrol Overnights at monthly Troop campouts, to conform with the Physical Distance (in a Boy Scout camp), with which the adults are comfortable.

Again, make sure you call their attention to that Physical Space. It seems obvious, but it is not.

Green Bar Bill's "Patrol Leader Training" course on how to teach Patrol Leaders how to conduct Patrol Hikes and Patrol Overnights can be found at:

http://inquiry.net/patrol/green_bar/index.htm

The best Hillcourt-based Patrol Leader Training in the 21st century is being done by Bob Geier's "Troop 8." I will try to post more information.

Yours at 300 feet,

Kudu

http://kudu.net

Boy-led, as in Patrol hikes and overnights without SPL, JASM, or adult helicopters? Or boy-led as in the whole Troop Method?

"Paper Eagle" is redundant.

If you run the patrol method properly' date=' adult leaders can't do anything about cell phones.[/quote']

 

Yes, we agree.

Moot but not mute

Our Scouts still use airplane mode camera and music functions on trails with no service.

Which are increasingly rare: On the Atlantic Ocean leg of the Cumberland Island backpack trip (URL above), I had a constant signal to send continuous Facebook photo updates to families and friends worried about the severe thunderstorm forecast that day.

See "Cumberland Island National Seashore: Day One"

https://plus.google.com/100437668559826261011/posts

I've always thought that we could get Wood Badge back from the Den Leaders if we moved "leadership skills" to the University of Scouting, and then forced everyone to call them "Doctor."

Shouting a lie does not make it true, CAPSLOCK.

I'm surprised nobody has suggested American Wood Badge football: You eliminate the skills required to physically move your team 300 feet between goals, and instead play "The Game of Life" in the end zone.

Figured that'd be Kudu's response. If he's 300 feet away' date=' he can't really monitor for cell phones anyways. =P[/quote']

 

Well, aside from the laughable notion that anyone trained at Wood Badge would actually try Baden-Powell's Patrol System even once....

 

How exactly do you "monitor for cell phones" a Patrol backpacking without helicopters?

 

https://www.youtube.com/user/At300Feet

 

Yours at 300 feet!

"It clearly beats the compass when it comes to learning about effective land or water navigation." That ranks right up there with Kudu's favorite quotes from scout executives.

Yeah, the kind of thing an HQ Eagle would say who believes "Our mission, values and desired outcomes of leadership and character development haven’t changed since that first campout on Brownsea Island."

We have two set of rules in our Troop. The indoor dads don't allow electronics on their car camp outings. Same for summer camp, which in my book is just summer school, so the same rules should apply as in school.

However, I actively encourage electronics for activities that I organize, which is to say outings in which Scouts use their muscles and the physical leadership of mature Scouts to get there: Backpack, canoe, and 50 mile bike trips.

In fact, I carry enough power banks with me to recharge the phones of the Scouts who actually run the outing. This kind of thing: http://www.neweggflash.com/Product/0SC-000Y-00060

I do require they use earphones.

Yours at 300 feet,

Kudu

http://kudu.net

I used to be Bruce Tuckman and a corporate raider too.

 

Now I've destroyed "Real" Patrols I know just what to do.

 

I'll form and storm more outdoor skills just to follow through.

 

Back to Gilwell. Parking lot.

 

The Staffers call it Wood Badge but it's not.

I used to be Bruce Tuckman and a corporate raider too.

Now I've destroyed "Real" Patrols I know just what to do.

I'll form and storm more outdoor skills just to follow through.

Back to Gilwell. Parking lot.

The Staffers call it Wood Badge but it's not.

I think the quality of projects depends on the Scout and his unit. Packsaddle, what would you replace The project with? If anything?

As a scout currently working on my Eagle Project, I think there is way to much paperwork to be done. It seems like a waste of time to me.They either need to cut out all the paperwork or get rid of it all together. I really like JoeBob's idea I would love to be able to do that. It would not only test your skills but also your commitment to scouts and make you really think about your life. Of course it will never happen which is unfortunate.

http://inquiry.net/patrol/

Current Eagle projects teach a disdain for paperwork. A candidate learns that filling out almost useless forms is more important that actually doing something good that helps their community.

To serve the boy in his adult future, devaluing bureaucracy is a good thing. To build good character in our men, Eagle projects do little.

 

***

It will never happen, but can you imagine an Eagle Vigil?

Go to a solitary location and camp alone for 5 days.

Take food for 3 days. No electronics.

 

Study the flames of your campfire and contemplate your future. Write a five year plan for:

1- How are you going to improve yourself and become more self-reliant?

2- What are you gong to do to help your family?

3- Where do you want to go with your faith?

 

Find 5 types of plants that you are unfamiliar with. Identify them when you return.

Build a survival shelter. Sleep your last night in that shelter using only materials and bedding that you accrued from the woods.

Supplement your food with edible plants and protein you acquire from nature.

***

 

That's the type of experience that a young man can look back upon and use to support his future character.

http://inquiry.net/advancement/traditional/journey_requirements.htm

The Hayekian Liberty of Ender’s Game

http://blog.acton.org/archives/66809-hayekian-liberty-enders-game.html

by Joe Carter on Thursday, March 13, 2014

My conversion into a fan of science-fiction began with an unusual order from a member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff: “Each Marine shall read a minimum of three books from the [Commandant’s Professional Reading List] each year.â€Â

Included on the list of books suitable for shaping the minds of young Lance Corporals like me were two sci-fi novels: Robert Heinlein’s Starship Troopers and Orson Scott Card’s Ender’s Game.

I soon discovered what lay hidden in these literary gems. Along with surprisingly intriguing story lines, both novels provide some keen insights on the role of training, discipline, and creativity in preparing an effective military. But Ender’s Game also included a concept that, at the time (1990), I would not have been able to classify: a Hayekian view of knowledge and liberty.

As Sam Staley says, the novel provides “lessons about individualism, liberty, and the value of markets.â€Â

Ender has a startling degree of empathy. He understands the motivations and psyche of his friends and his enemies. And, as a commander, he allows his officers to lead, take risks, and use their judgement. Even when he is outnumbered, Ender is able to use the creativity of his sub-commanders to gain advantage. In fact, Ender’s insubordinationâ€â€his willingness to take risks and follow his own path–is an essential part of his development as a commander. This is the entrepreneurialism that forms the heart of much free-market economics, particularly Austrian economics.

In contrast, his enemy, “the buggers,†are directed by a central commander. A Queen Bee, if you will. The enemy’s strategy is centrally coordinated. More uniquely, their entire strategy is based on complete and instantaneous knowledge of the central planners goals, values, and directives. It is a true collective. Even in this ideal setting, the centrally coordinated strategy is less adaptable, less nimble, less robust, and, ultimately, less resilient.

Thus, Card has set up a battle of values and social systems, not just military strategies. Ender instinctively and effectively utilizes the intelligence of all the individuals in his fleet by letting them use their decentralized and fragmented knowledge, expertise, and skills to make critical decisions in the field, including being alert to new opportunities (entrepreneurship) and being accountable for their actions. While Ender still plays the commander, he learns that his effectiveness increases by giving his friends more freedom, not less. Humans survive the war, thus showing the benefits of individual freedom over central planning.

Ender’s Game is one of my all-time favorite novels of any genre, so I recommend it unreservedly....

And if you’re already a fan of the Ender Wiggin’s saga, check out Jaqueline Isaacs’ “Five Books You’ll Love if You Liked ‘Ender’s Game’â€Â.

http://www.valuesandcapitalism.com/dialogue/society/five-books-youll-love-if-you-liked-enders-game

Other troops all you needed to do was listen to some summer camp CIT mumble about it.

That is the purpose of ItOLS: To teach indoor volunteers how to sign off Tenderfoot, Second Class, and First Class in about 20 hours, the same number of hours as most "first year" summer camp programs.

 

I cannot blame most of the current crop of leaders, they try they really do, but they have spent most of their life at a desk, woodsmen (or woodswomen) are getting scarce nowadays.

Baloney, OldScout, Baloney!

 

Baden-Powell had the same problem 100 years ago. So he designed Wood Badge for 20th century indoor volunteers who spent most of their life at a desk, as a week-long immersion course in how to think like woodsmen.

 

Wood Badge for the 21st century teaches indoor volunteers that success formula "leadership skills" they can use in their life at a desk, are the mountaintop experience of Scouting.

 

The central myth of Wood Badge is that woodsmen were more common in Baden-Powell's day. Scoutcraft was a collection of "practical" skills that boys needed for life on the farm.

Baloney! Scouting has always been a game for city boys who spend too much time indoors.

20th century parents were indoor adults that spent most of their life at a desk, same as now. So Baden-Powell designed Wood Badge as a week-long immersion course to teach desk riders how to think like woodsmen.

Wood Badge for the 21st century teaches indoor volunteers that the mountaintop experience of Scouting is success formula "leadership skills" they can use for life indoors at a desk.

Other troops all you needed to do was listen to some summer camp CIT mumble about it.

That is the purpose of ItOLS: To teach indoor volunteers how to sign off Tenderfoot, Second Class, and First Class in about 20 hours, the same number of hours as most "first year" summer camp programs.

I cannot blame most of the current crop of leaders, they try they really do, but they have spent most of their life at a desk, woodsmen (or woodswomen) are getting scarce nowadays.

Baden-Powell had the same problem 100 years ago. So he designed Wood Badge for 20th century indoor volunteers who spent most of their life at a desk, as a week-long immersion course in how to think like woodsmen.

Wood Badge for the 21st century teaches indoor volunteers that success formula "leadership skills" they can use in their life at a desk, are the mountaintop experience of Scouting.

Well, I attended that "Trail Life USA Town Meeting" last night. Attendance was sparse, mostly district people who plan to be involved in both organizations, plus a guy from the Royal Rangers willing to lend a hand to the new organization.

 

I was able to briefly examine a Trail Life handbook. At first glance the Scoutcraft seemed even thinner than that of the BSA. The "Leadership and Character" (anti-Scoutcraft) aspects were even more pronounced, which should not be a surprise since it is an organization of BSA expatriates.

 

My BSA Troop's former Chartered Organization Representative is the chief Trail Life commissioner in this area. I agreed to serve on his committee as an outdoor skills trainer if he can shepherd my application through the process.

 

It turns out that one factor limiting involvement on district levels, is that a volunteer application must include a letter of reference from your pastor, so those who agree with Trail Life principles, but are not members of a church are excluded from membership.

If Boys want to play Army, then maybe JROTC is for them. They can do Drill and Ceremony just like the real Army! Then they can learn how to fill out request forms just like the real Army! Then they can learn to fill out Operation Order Plans just like the real Army! Then when they get something wrong, they can get smoked by their Patrol Leader, just like the real Army!

What fun!

Baden Powells early Scouting skills were very similiar to the ones he used in reconnaissance in the British Army. But the way it operates is not the same. Scouting is a unique thing. So I don't like the military analogies. Besides some similarities in certain skills, a hierarchy structure, the fact it uses ranks the military is a very different breed of animal. The military isn't for everybody. I want to try to include as many boys as possible in Scouting.

But go ahead Kudu, let your Scouts play recon patrol. You gotta play the Lieutenant. So start pushing that paperwork. Cause that's what Lieutenants do.

Precisely the same misunderstanding of military scouting forced B-P to write a boys' version of his book Aids to Scouting for NCOs & Men.

B-P was a vocal opponent of military drill for army reconnaissance patrols. He invented games like Capture the Flag and Spider & Fly to teach his patrol system and scouting skills to army men, not boys.

http://inquiry.net/outdoor/games/b-p...ng/a2s_167.htm

Boys who like to play army snatched up the book and made it a best-seller. But when youth workers took notice and invited the famous military hero to review their Boys Brigade, YMCA, etc. versions of his best-seller, it was always military drill.

So he wrote Scouting for Boys, a manual on how boys can build their own working Patrols. The whole point of BSA training is to destroy working Patrols by instilling in adults an instinctive drive to pull the most competent leaders out of the Patrols and tuck them away in Troop-level administrative and "training" roles like SPL, ASPL, JASM, and TG.

What is more important in the army - the Colonels and Generals or the warrant officers and Sergeants? The answer is both are needed and the army would not function properly without both.

 

Now, the real question is - does this boy of 16 and you want him to serve the Scoutmaster (that is what a JASM does) or serve in a leadership position with the boys? Don't have a JASM lead the boys and don't have a troop guide, SPL, Intructor, etc. carry out Scoutmaster assignments.

What is more important in the army - the Colonels and Generals or the warrant officers and Sergeants? The answer is both are needed and the army would not function properly without both.

 

Now, the real question is - does this boy of 16 and you want him to serve the Scoutmaster (that is what a JASM does) or serve in a leadership position with the boys? Don't have a JASM lead the boys and don't have a troop guide, SPL, Intructor, etc. carry out Scoutmaster assignments.

~

Kudu is not a fan of the BSA' date=' so he uses these discussions to bash the BSA ... [/quote']

"Bash the BSA" statements like that are why "servant leaders" are not to be trusted.

 

I think it is important for everyone to understand that Kudu prefers the Badon Powell patrol system where the SM hand picks the leaders...I suggested JASM because it is a position in the this BSA program that the SM can appoint.

Obviously you are the one who wants to hand pick the leader. I said to throw them all together without job titles six months before the next election, and the Natural Leader will emerge.