kb6jra

Congratulations meamemg, Welcome to the Brotherhood of the Eagle (myself, class if 1978)

Good job. As John in KC said you should have your certificate and "credit card" in a couple of weeks at most.

I love Eagle CoHs I''ve got two to attend in the next couple of months. Very exciting.

Wow, mandatory training. What a concept. I like the idea actually, and maybe because I''ve taken it upon myself to get all the training I can fit into my schedule, and maybe because I''m on my council''s Training Team (have the new neckerchief to prove it) and WB Staff.

I know how important it is for scouts to have trained leaders. I''ve seen first hand what damage an untrained adult can do to kids, and I can support mandated training as long as it''s handled correctly.

I would think that at a minimum, like in OGE''s council, the Council or District leadership focuses on the training team and training schedule first, just to make sure that all is in place before they announce new rule. Then the communication and sales of the idea needs to be complete. There should be no question in the mind of any adult as to why the step is necessary and how it can be accomplished.

Regarding quality of training, I would be in favor of a more centralized TDC or TTT. I would think that training techniques could filter down from the Region to the Area level, that trainers should be "certified" to give training in the first place. Many councils, mine included, require a trainer to take TDC (every 3 years in my council) in order to be active on the training teams. I would say that would be a minimum requirement. I''m attending an Area CD conference in a couple of weeks (first one for me) and think that something of this level would be appropriate for all council and district level trainers.

Welcome. This forum is a great resource and not such a bad place to get things off your chest, too.

I hate it when kids get bored with the program. Happens all the time. Maybe Wolves would be a better fit? My son''s den, by the time they were Bears, were feeling the same way. The Den Leader and ADL (My wife was ADL) talked to my daughters middle school science teacher for help. He was, among other things, a model rocketeer. He got them all rockets at no charge, taught them how to assemble them, how they worked, why they worked...then they shot them off at the school. He still talks about it and he''s 17. "Use the force Luke" or your resources. Do some crazy fun activity, a once in a lifetime (for an elementary student) event. Just an idea.

Enjoy the topics and discussions, even start your own. The more people that add their collective wisdom the better this place will be.

From a post in another thread, I see there is still a faction within Scouting that thinks that Women have no place beyond the role of Den Mother, or maybe as high up on the Scouting food chain as Committee Member.

Here''s my experience and where I''m at on this subject, I''d be interested in yours as well.

I''m probably from the old school. My father was a Scoutmaster, and being the envious son, I followed in his footsteps. Perhaps too closely as it turns out. When I was a scout, women were relegated to Cub Den Mothers, Troop Womens Auxiliary members, and those that made the food for the quarterly Courts of Honor pot lucks for the troop. In my mind this was the way of things and I carried that with me for a long time. I was somewhat scandalized when my troop committee installed it''s first female Committee Chairman.

Fast Forward to the present. I attended Wood Badge in 2003. I was pretty sure I had an edge, because I''ve been there, done that; Eagle Scout, held all positions, taken tons of training early and had a stint as a Scoutmaster at age 21 for 4 years... I showed up and found out there were 2 women in my patrol. I was not a happy camper at first, why would they put me, an obvious first stringer, in with these "den mothers". Boy did I have a lot to learn.

Those two women turned out to be quite a force for change in my life. I came to realize that women had more to offer our program than I was originally willing to admit. In the end they became invaluable to our patrol, and to my Wood Badge experience. I have since met Women Cubmasters, Scoutmasters and Advisors that run fantastic programs and have successful packs, troops and crews, units I would be proud to be a part of anytime. Their biggest roadblocks, as I see them, are the ones men put up in front of them. The fact that they can surmount them at all speaks volumes to their abilities to persevere and stay the course IMHO.

I have several women as ASMs in my troop, past and present. I have one patrol that is very active with only 1 father available to help out. He''s a fire captain and makes maybe 1 meeting a month and 1 outing a quarter as his schedule allows. What I have are mostly single moms. These women took it upon themselves to get trained and step up as ASM patrol advisors. They do a great job and have been taking on more and more responsibility within the troop. I couldn''t do the job without them, at least not as well as it''s getting done now.

That''s a great idea Pack378. That would be a fantastic event if we could get enough council wide participation.

I don''t have to get my committee together until January or Feburary. Our council does a yearly gathering in the Fall with our local County Sherrif''s department who hosts a public Rodeo. Lot''s of fun and tons of people. Great time to get the message out. This might turn out to be one of the capstones to the list of celebrations. We''ll have 3 years of buildup to the 2010 celebrations. I get excited thinking about the possibilities.

"This thread has been pole vaulting over a mouse turd far too long"

I swear to God I get more usefull stuff form this website every day...Thanks John for this gem, I''m gonna use it often.

Oh, and it would be nice to have some sort of recognition for the youth that serve. My son was a CC, and he was expected to work that job. He was a member of the Dist Committee of sorts and reported to them monthly. He was recognized by the DE during the annual District Dinner, but any form of recognition of their position during the tenure I would be in favor of.

WWW

Pete,

I think your gifts were a great idea. It was kind of a joke on the course I staffed. Apparantly the previous course one of the TG''s had given gifts, had not backed away from her kiddies like she should have in the course, and they wrote songs and cheers about her, bought her presents, put her name on their patrol flag...she was a bigger part of their patrol than the patrol members at one time. They gave her the Mommy Award.

On my course we were threatened (light heartedly of course) with the Mommy Award if we gave or received 1 gift on course. Giving gifts at the beadings is a different story apparantly, and I''m going to be prepared with something along the same lines you''ve done here.

Again, good work.

Eagle Pete, at the course I was just on, had I done just one of those things I would have received the Mommy award. LOL I do like the personal hand made gifts. Nice touch IMO.

I think the I Can is a neat thing. Good work.

Our troop as been asked several times in the years to field a Philmont contingent for our council. We know that Philmont is a wonderful place, a Meca of sorts for us scouters and scouts, but we''ve never been able to get beyond the $$ issue. We can put on a 10 day high adventure backcountry trip for under $200 a piece and that includes transportation. That''s hard to beat IMO.

Now, while I can''t see spending money on a Philmont trek because of what we have available to us here in CA, I can see the value in FL Sea Base or Northern Tier. Those programs are not easily reproduceable for us like a backpacking trip is.

FYI, I''ve been to Philmont and would go back in a heartbeat.

Never have a duet produced such a high quality sound since the Smothers Brothers.

That''s funny, I don''t care who you are

Our courses this year were $235 if paid before the 30 day meeting and $275 if paid after. $20 isn''t quite the incentive for commitment as $40 seems to be. $100 staff fees, for food and materials.

Our CDC here in November is $90 early, $110 within 3 weeks or so. $175, I hope that came with room service and a massage!

On our course recently (WE4-45-1-07) we ate like kings, or QM is a great cook, and she had lots of help. Staff got a copy of the syllabus and Course Directors guide, 2 t-shirts, WB patches, etc. Our participants got 2 shirts, 1 binder, 1 hat, 1 necker, 1 piece of rope to make a woggle...ha!, a PEN, a photo cd after course, a special patch with a course number rocker.

IMHO $235 was cheap. I have a friend who paid $3000 for he and his father to go through similar training over 1 weekend at a hotel to help improve their business and their relationship in the company. The training was similar to the things we do in WB (less sleeping out of doors).

Thank you Fred, that was the point I was trying to convey. I hope that clears up my opinion for you Longhaul.

If your middle schooler came home telling you that their teacher held a discussion about how it was necessary for the US Powers to detain those suspected of terrorist activities and that the use of extreme measusres was justified because of the iminent threat to our country would you still be calling for his head? LongHaul

Yes, I would have to say I would. I don''t think political bias belongs in public education in any form or from any camp honestly.

As I poorly tried to illustrate before, if this teacher had demonstrated a right leaning bias instead of a left leaning bias in his teachings, he''d be beating the streets as we type. That is the way of things unfortunately, at least as I percieve them to be.

At the college level, and the High School level as well, I would say that (un biased) political history and Political Science is appropriate, but I don''t see where this is necessary in middle school or jr. high school. I don''t beileve those kids are ready for the burden of political rhetoric yet.

Also, if this teacher had left it at US History and it''s relevance today, that would be ok, but what I read here tells me that this guy had an agenda beyond what his job description calls for.

"The lesson being taught in class was that the U.S. kidnaps innocent people and takes them to Cuba, where they are kept indefinitely and tortured," Hill said he learned through his daughter. When Hill asked her if Brooks mentioned Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, where the U.S. imprisons terrorist suspects, he said his daughter replied "yes." He said his daughter broke into tears when she talked about Brooks mentioning illegal wiretaps and other surveillance directed against innocent people."

Had this happened at my childs school I would have been calling for this guys dismissal as well, this is not an appropriate avenue to vent political bias by any means. As I said before, if this teacher had insteadpromoted school prayer and strong conservative religeous beliefs, he would have been terminated immediately before the ACLU had a chance to sue the school district. There should be no double standard. (This message has been edited by kb6jra)

Gunny,

You''re probably more the norm since I live relatively close to the Mag facility and shipping cost is minimal for me. I''ve only done it a couple of times (sent a light in for repair). One of my favorites was a micro mini single AAA. Perfect size IMHO. And I''ve sent in a couple of minis that had been laser inscribed for special occasions. None of which I actually bought, got as gifts and that sort of thing.

Varsity Colors, Orange and Brown.

Oddly enough there is everything else under the BSA sun represented here http://www.scouting.org/nav/enter.jsp?s=xx&c=xm except the Varsity program.

I ran into this same issue when I took my course. I recently served on staff as a TG on a mainly LDS course (90% participants and staff were LDS folks) and learned a lot about Varsity Scouting.

Good luck and have fun.

Nice, I love how it''s some how ok for "teachers" to use their classroom teaching time to promote a political agenda (left or right) and label it "instruction".

How does the politics of Guantanamo Bay become US History? And how could it be reasonable to push any polarized political viewpoint on any child, ever?

This school employee should be disciplined as if he were holding a prayer vigil during class time IMHO.

Gunny, as an FYI Mag Industries should take those damaged flash lights and repair them for you. Last time I sent one in it cost me shipping only. (I''ve had the battery get stubbornly stuck as well).

Yea, this is a lose lose somewhat. He was good with the HA products we delivered, but he was a huge problem when it came to dealing with the boys. It appeared he just didn''t like kids after all, and being a "my way or the highway" kinda person didn''t help that along. The kids didn''t like him either and were actually glad that he''s no longer associated with the unit.

I did whine to my CC and to my CoR. CC''s a good friend and CoR and I are in the same Rotary Club, so I see him weekly.

I''d thought I would share this issue and get some objective advice, too. Sorry in advance for the length.

Every summer our troop plans and carries out a high adventure trip. Our previous Scoutmaster is a legendary backpacker. He started the troop as a Backpacking only troop, and since I''ve joined and taken over as Scoutmaster, we have made few changes in the way we approach our outdoor program, simply because it works.

When we recruit for new boys and parents, we invite Webelos dens to hike with us for the day. We usually start out with a flat city day hike of 5 miles RT or less. We play ball at a park, or Frisbee, just have some fun with the kids, then we hike back to the meeting place for a BBQ. The second hike is in the mountains, sometimes the first wilderness experience for the boys and their parents. We want them to know what we''re all about before they make a commitment to join, that way there''s no misunderstanding about our program.

This last summer we tried to plan 3 separate trips for 3 ability levels of our scouts. Only our Regular Scout patrol''s trip went through, the others disintegrated when the boys dropped out and made the trips un necessary. This trip had 5 scouts and 3 adults (The previous SM, and 2 ASMs) participate. Althought it was only 20% of our troop, it was a wonderful trip to be sure and they all came back with lots of stories and great memories.

They also came back with a plan to change the troop. Somehow they got to talking about how much fun they had, how they wanted to keep this feeling going and what they thought about their troop mates. A lot of this rhetoric was started by the adults, particularly the previous SM and his nephew, an ASM. The conversation morphed into changing the patrol structure of the troop. These 5 boys were to pick 3 others to make a full patrol and they would become the high adventure patrol. Sounded like a great idea to them, and not too bad as ideas go. What happened next is the issue.

On their return, the previous SM called me and told me about the trip, how proud he was of the boys, how they''d become great backpackers and how they performed as a team. He ran down all the great things that happened and then he talked about their plan to re-distribute the patrols. I said it sounded like something we could work on and make happen for them. I wanted to have it presented to the PLC first however, so they could have some good input. He agreed that would be the best way to go.

That night he spoke to his nephew, an ASM Patrol Adviser for this group of boys. His patrol has 9 boys in it, only 5 could attend this trip. The previous SM told his nephew that I was on board with the plan and that all they needed todo was present it to the PLC and it was a done deal. The ASM called the 5 boys and their parents, told them about the new patrol, how it was a forgone conclusion, then he called the 3 boys they wanted to invite and their parents and had them all show up an hour early before the next meeting.

I arrive at the next meeting and there is just a huge crowd of people. I really didn''t think anything of it, it was nice to see so many of the boys actually show up early. I arrive typically 45 minutes early to get the place opened up and available for kids to get stuff signed off. A couple of the kids from this group had started a conversation with the previous SM just before the meeting. I walked up to say hello, the previous SM pushed them toward me and said "you should talk to the Scoutmaster about this". They were lobbying me about the plan, they had a few good ideas but no real answers about how the rest of the troop would be handled. That never really crossed their minds.

Anyway, we started the meeting. I walked into the meeting room, the SPL had things under control it seemed, so I left for a short conversation with a parent. Upon my return the room was oddly segregated. I noticed they had formed the "new patrol" and left the leftover boys at their patrol tables without any leadership of any kind. The SPL was wondering what was going on but didn''t question it because the boys had been moved around by the ASM (previous SM''s nephew). I asked what was going on, the boys told me that Mr. X had told them to make the change. The "leftover" boys were looking a bit discouraged and I''d say disenfranchised. I gathered them up into one group and asked the SPL to give them some special attention.

At this time I went out of the room and spoke to the ASM that made the change. I said "I don''t like what I see, there are boys in there that are lost and they have no leadership". His answer was that "Well, I''ve basically cherry picked the troop" and grinned. I told him it wasn''t going to work out. "We''ve agreed to disagree on these points in the past" he said. I looked at him in disbelief. He tore my troop apart and could have cared less. I told him that he had no right or authority to make these types of changes, and that at any rate being the Scoutmaster I would have liked to be consulted at some point.

After the meeting the previous SM approached the PLC and they were discussing the change. I walked up and (fuming) instructed them that we needed to sit down and work out all the problems before they would be able to make the changes, and all issues needed to be addressed to my satisfaction.

I locked up, the previous SM waited with me and asked what was bothering me. I chewed on him for a good 30 minutes and let him know how disappointed I was in him (he''s 71 years old) and his nephew for doing this horrible thing to the boys, not to mention what they did to me. He told me there must have been a misunderstanding, because after our conversation we "agreed" that a reorganization would work. I reminded him that we were sit down and work it out on paper, just like we''ve done in the past, making sure we had all the bases covered. He acknowledged that we didn''t get it right this time and he apologized.

I sent out an email the next day to the ASMs and told them we''d have a meeting to discuss this issue, and that we would div up the responsibilities of the new patrol structure accordingly. I listed my dissatisfaction of the night before and how horrible I had felt for the "leftover" kids and their parents, how the parents had come to me and asked what it would take to get their kids in the "A" group. I had no answers for them, but I would certainly figure it out.

The meeting didn''t happen right away because I was ill for it, so we re-scheduled. In the mean time we had our committee meeting. The ASM had purposefully avoided me all night, made his report on the HA trip to the committee, and left the room without so much as a hello. I gave my report and then talked about the issue from the week prior. I told the committee what the boys had decided and how we were going to approach the issue.

After the meeting, a few of the parents of the boys who had been picked for the new patrol came to me and said "ASM X asked us to go into the committee meeting and ask that you step down as SM" "he said that unless we run you off, nothing will get done". Well I didn''t see that coming. Luckily they didn''t bring it up in the meeting. They were ashamed that they were even asked it seemed.

The ASM sent an email two days later resigning, explaining it was because of poor management and yada yada yada...

His uncle, the previous SM is now lobbying me to ask him back. So far I''ve kept my cool and my resolve to never see this man again. Why would I want someone in my ranks that has planned a coups against me?

Am I missing something? I feel so soiled after this.

Wow, a questionaire. I think when I was a Cubmaster the first question I had for a potential new leader was "what size uniform shirt do you wear?".

I hope you have them lined up out the door to apply. Take them all and give them all a job. Like Scott said, start them off with small bits and build up. The more hand helping to carry the load the easier it is to go the distance.

Make sure they''re available to take appropriate training. If you have a whole slew of new leaders, have the District or Council training team come to you. Cub Lead Specific takes about 3 hours or less and is time well spent.

Good luck

Lightweight camp shoes, we use rubber soled moccasins. They don''t weigh much, aren''t constrictive and form to the shape your foot is in at the time, have enough of a sole so you wont bruise the bottom of your feet stumbling around camp, and they''re crushable, so they''ll fit anywhere in your pack.

My worst piece of gear was my 1960's vintage home-made soldered-together pack frame made from steel conduit. With rope shoulder straps. No hip belt. Brutal

OUCH! Bet you still have the scars from that.

Simple can be just the outline of the Eagle, uplifted wings, chin right. That silouette is very recognizable and iconic IMO.

I'm in agreement there. Luckily my son went to WSJ and had an incredible time, met hundreds of great scouts from around the world and now is more energized about scouting than any adult fresh back from WB ever has been.

I know there's the Centenial Unit award program that's been in effect for a year or so, and the logo'd items on sale at the scout shop, but still no big push to celebrate this year. Too bad we did really miss the bus there...